Gotway Monster Pro

[Jia Liu]

1 minute ago, Paradox said:

I don't see it on their website!  Did you have to order it by email?

Yep, just email sales@ewheels.com and they will send you the invoice.

[Paradox]

2 minutes ago, Jia Liu said:

Yep, just email sales@ewheels.com and they will send you the invoice.

What is the ETA and price?   I would like to see some info on it before I commit my preorder dollars.

[Jia Liu]

1 minute ago, Paradox said:

What is the ETA and price?   I would like to see some info on it before I commit my preorder dollars.

You don't have to commit anything by emailing them, just show some interests and they will send you all the info. For the price, since this is my 5th wheel bought from them,  they might give me some discount, so before they post the official price on the website, it may not be appropriate for me to post it here. I'd say it's cheaper than I expected, and worth the upgrade from Sherman for the bigger battery pack and more powerful motor. ETA I got is early November.

[Rockhardo]

5 hours ago, Jia Liu said:

Just pre-ordered Monster Pro from ewheels, can't wait!!

I put my order in 6 weeks ago.👍🏼 I’m hoping this might be the half way waiting point. So little new Monster Pro content. Everyday for I’m looking for new content.🤪🤣

[EMA]

[Arbolest]

6 hours ago, EMA said:

This picture told me everything I needed to know! 

[erk1024]

On 9/12/2020 at 7:10 AM, Steve Jo said:

Production is going to be delayed for another month....somehow delay is from motor manufacturer..

I wonder if this also affects the Gotway EX? Both wheels could have the same motor.

[Petrus]

So does the watt affect the acceleration too? 

[meepmeepmayer]

9 hours ago, Petrus said:

So does the watt affect the acceleration too? 

In general, motor wattage numbers say pretty much nothing.

Usually, more W = more oomph. That's how it has been till now. But you cannot predict anything concrete from the motor W number (like 2500W vs. 3000W) as long as it is big enough (2000W and above), and whether "more W" makes a stronger wheel or just coincides with a new model with better firmware or motor construction I'm not sure. In the end, the battery and the firmware (and the electronics) decide how much power can be pumped into a motor (motors can take a ton of power) before battery usage gets too crazy high (not efficient to accelerate a big tire hard) or the battery can't give more or the board fries. Motors are the strongest link.

So you need concrete experiences to tell you how a wheel and its motor turn out. Anything above 2000W seems to be "big enough", and how a specific new motor behaves isn't really told by its W rating (which is a very vague concept anyways as far as I can tell). You need to look what people say about a specific wheel compared to its predecessor with a "weaker" motor, for example.

I'm certainly no expert on this though, that's just my impression how it works.

Edited September 17, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[erk1024]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

In general, motor wattage numbers say pretty much nothing.

Usually, more W = more oomph. That's how it has been till now. But you cannot predict anything concrete from the motor W number (like 2500W vs. 3000W) as long as it is big enough (2000W and above), and whether "more W" makes a stronger wheel or just coincides with a new model with better firmware or motor construction I'm not sure. In the end, the battery and the firmware (and the electronics) decide how much power can be pumped into a motor (motors can take a ton of power) before battery usage gets too crazy high (not efficient to accelerate a big tire hard) or the battery can't give more or the board fries. Motors are the strongest link.

So you need concrete experiences to tell you how a wheel and its motor turn out. Anything above 2000W seems to be "big enough", and how a specific new motor behaves isn't really told by its W rating (which is a very vague concept anyways as far as I can tell). You need to look what people say about a specific wheel compared to its predecessor with a "weaker" motor, for example.

I'm certainly no expert on this though, that's just my impression how it works.

@Petrus

Yep. I agree. And any numbers coming from a Chinese company are suspect.

In physics, wattage is a measure of "power" which is an acceleration times mass. So more power can accelerate faster or accelerate more mass (or both). 

The wattage of an electric motor is usually the maximum continuous output of the motor. But the maximum power of the motor for a short duration can be much higher. All this depends on how much voltage and current is available from the batteries, and as @meepmeepmayer says, it has to go through the control board.

So higher numbers are generally better, but whether an inMotion 2200 watt motor is more powerful than a Gotway 2000w motor is anyone's guess. Better to rely on real-world experience at that point.

[eve]

Definetly. I mean Sherman has 2500W motor. Its not a number that turns eyes but the motor is a beast.

[erk1024]

17 minutes ago, eve said:

Definetly. I mean Sherman has 2500W motor. Its not a number that turns eyes but the motor is a beast.

There also seems to be a tradeoff between torque and speed. In other words, you have wheels with lots of torque (Gotway MSX Pro -- aka MSP) and wheels with high speed (Gotway MSX Pro Speed -- aka the MSS) The Sherman is a high speed motor, but lower torque than the MSP.  

Edited September 17, 2020 by erk1024

[Steve Jo]

On 9/17/2020 at 12:35 PM, erk1024 said:

I wonder if this also affects the Gotway EX? Both wheels could have the same motor.

Unfortunately, it does ....but latest I heard it could resume by end of September...well it is hard to say...they are now concentrating on RS19  which is more popular model line as of now

[meepmeepmayer]

Some nice pictures of the Monster Pro can be seen on the website: http://www.begode.com/productinfo/515827.html

For example here's a detail of the charge ports and buttons.

[erk1024]

Monster Pro is now listed on Speedyfeet: https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/collections/electric-unicycle-one-wheel-segway/products/gotway-monster-pro

 

[erk1024]

The EX and the Monster Pro are also listed for pre-order on Ali Express: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Gotway/1908673_518102884.html?spm=a2g0o.store_home.pcShopHead_12136562.1_0_0

 

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, erk1024 said:

Monster Pro is now listed on Speedyfeet: https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/collections/electric-unicycle-one-wheel-segway/products/gotway-monster-pro

 

Holy smokes...I appreciate that the Monster Pro is a lotta wheel but £3K is a lotta dough... 

 

[Steve Jo]

if all good, production of Monster Pro will commence in mid Oct 

[EUC Addict]

I've heard production begins the week of Oct. 26. Don't confuse my specific date with what the actual production date will be. Some time during that week. Keeping my fingers crossed for a December delivery to California, but the pessimists are saying January 2021.

[Mrd777]

8 minutes ago, shwinston said:

I've heard production begins the week of Oct. 26. Don't confuse my specific date with what the actual production date will be. Some time during that week. Keeping my fingers crossed for a December delivery to California, but the pessimists are saying January 2021.

It’s impressive how late this is, zero news on it from Begode.

[Mrd777]

Now from what I understand from Begode, production starts mid November. Here’s a quick view..

 

[RetroThruster]

Looks like it accelerates pretty good

[Ben Kim]

On 9/13/2020 at 3:45 PM, Jia Liu said:

You don't have to commit anything by emailing them, just show some interests and they will send you all the info. For the price, since this is my 5th wheel bought from them,  they might give me some discount, so before they post the official price on the website, it may not be appropriate for me to post it here. I'd say it's cheaper than I expected, and worth the upgrade from Sherman for the bigger battery pack and more powerful motor. ETA I got is early November.

bigger battery pack with poorer discharge performance on the Monster Pro, the motor nominal rating means almost nothing as it is strictly the rating the motor can run “indefinitely”. 

your ETA is dead wrong as well considering they aren’t even producing the monster pro yet! 

[bryon01]

2 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

bigger battery pack with poorer discharge performance on the Monster Pro, the motor nominal rating means almost nothing as it is strictly the rating the motor can run “indefinitely”. 

your ETA is dead wrong as well considering they aren’t even producing the monster pro yet! 

If I understand what you are saying (I may not be following, in which case my bad), which is something you said in another thread, you are claiming that the 21700s are somehow inferior to the 18650's in a veteran.  This is not true.  When you correct the number of cells in parallel, especially given all of these wheels have many cells in parallel, the discharge performance of an 18650 and 21700 battery of similar design choice are the same --- for the same specific (i.e. divide by mass) AHr/WHr rating.  (i.e., same design choice as you can design the battery to have high capacity, high impedance, or lower capacity, lower impedance, higher discharge rating.)

Look.  https://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryIndex.html

Sanyo GA18650 cell,  3208mAh @ 3A,  3P-configuration=9.624 AHr @ 9A total discharge.  <38 mΩ, 1kHz from spec sheet. 3P configuration resistance is 38/3 ~13mΩ

LG M50, 4810mAh @ 5A,  2P-configuration=9.620 AHr @ 10A total discharge.  ≤ 25 mΩ, 1kHz from spec sheet. 2P configuration is 25/2 ~ 13mΩ

Crazy right, almost like it is just a bigger battery but the performance of the cathode, anode, and electrolyte was the same -- because it is.  It takes materials changes to make the battery better as they are constructed the same.  This is why the tabless Tesla battery is such a big deal.  They are rethinking how to build a battery in addition to the materials choices everyone else has focused on.  Note the 21700's actually give you an extra 1Amp of performance for the same AHr rating so the 18650 is getting a slight handicap here.

Since the two cell PACKS have the same equivalent resistance, their peak amperage capability, for a certain temperature rise, will be nearly identical.  (AKA, how many amps the pack can give before the battery is cooked)  If you look at the discharge graphs of each cell, you can see that the rate of temp rise of the 18650 at 15A (45A pack) and the M50 at 20A (40A pack) are indeed nearly identical, and the discharge curves look very similar.  As expected, for a well designed cell, the form factor really only impacts things like packing factor and thermal issues.  None of which are really an issue in a EUC since any large battery EUC has the ability to blow the controller, or motor leads, long before battery limits are found.

 

Now lets look at the mass.

LG M50 = 69.2g x 2 =138.4g

Sanyo GA =47.4g X 3 = 142.2g

Given the extra soldering and bus bars required for smaller cells, the pack with larger cells will be more mass efficient.  The small cell difference is just due to the cell walls itself.  There is more case metal in 3 18650's than 2 21700's.  Regardless, this argument that 21700 are somehow inferior is not true.  As long as battery manufacturers are putting the latest and greatest cathode/anode/and electrolyte formulations, and you aren't overheating the batteries, they will all be so close to the same performance as to not matter.  Larger cells, that aren't overheating due to strain, require less case material, less soldering work, and can be cheaper if the cells on a AHr basis are cost equivalent which really comes down to how many are being produced since the materials are the same.

 

TL;DR  You use the cell and form factor that gives you the lowest cost.  Not just the cost of the cell, but things like pack assembly, etc.  All other factors are so close that you choose the economic choice.  Since Tesla literally moves the battery market and they have moved to 2170 cells, you can expect most other electronics to follow that form factor.  Because those cells will be cheaper.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mhpr262]

Hehe, cant wait for the first wheel with Tesla 4860 cells. No parallel configuration needed for those puppies, just twenty cells in series and they can put out at least as many amps as five or six of the best 18650 or 21700 cells in parallel. the only downside I see is that they may be too thick to put them on the sides of the wheel so they may be usable in a Nikola/Inmotion V10 "on top" configuration only.