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davinche

[WARNING] Gotway Nikola 100v 1800WH Battery Fire

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Posted (edited)

If the wheel went up in flames after turning it on, I'm personally inclined to think it was a board failure.  Or, sudden catastrophic cell failure from bad manufacturing (aka Samsung S7 phones).

> When I got on it, it immediately shutoff and threw me off the wheel. It was only then after mysteriously powering off did the wheel go into thermal runaway and the wheel caught on fire.

What this tells me is that it wasn't likely a single cell failure. Something shorted out the entire pack end to end, all power is lost to the board, and the entire pack goes up in smoke as temp rises rapidly.

Edited by xorbe

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The amount of refurbished tesla motors sanyo/panasonic 21700 cells that are circulating in China now I'm surprised that we aren't seeing more packs with those cells.

If they are the reason then this fire is only the tip of the iceberg.

Corrosion could perhaps also be the reason. Metal shavings. Bad spotweld. Hmm... what else?

Whatever the reason, better pack monitoring is the medicine. :) I wouldn't mind to ride a pack like that at all, as long as I know the cell voltages are fine.

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Hope that guy is ok.... :-/

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57 minutes ago, D3m0nzz said:

Might be smart to start shying away from these third party mods as a community. Fires like this are what got "hoverboards" banned in most places. EUCs are always one major news story away from the same fate. 

Not really, hoverboards were insanely popular and much easier to acquire.

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It maybe my phone but can't seem to find a Nikola plus on the gotway site anymore either. Can find the 84v model only.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Delmeekc said:

It maybe my phone but can't seem to find a Nikola plus on the gotway site anymore either. Can find the 84v model only.

Scroll down http://www.kebye.com/productinfo/371591.html

(But seems like a lot of websites serve different content for desktop vs mobile though, I was looking via desktop. Possible the mobile site is different ...)

Edited by xorbe

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On 5/30/2020 at 2:43 PM, Chriull said:

I know. That's why i asked you, if you'd like to add adfitional information missing/correct rumours or false information(1)

But back to the topic - i fear that in this case there is a high chance that it has nothing to do with the batteries.

Most likely low speed overburden killing the mosfets/causing molten insulations snd by this shorted wires (to the motor).

Maybe a BMS/contact fault heating up the batteries. Or any other QC issue causing heatup/shorting.

This in combination with the missing short circuit protection led to a thermal runaway.

Could be any other problem with bad cells from the beginning or whatnot, but above cases would be my first guess.

Definitely the described charging behaviour of @davinche would be my very last guess.

Edit: i started this topic in the hope that it evolves into some kind of knowledge pool for the community sometimes...

he said he did it for half year and maybe if he didn't ride during cold winter rainy days.  things could get bad.  Not like the guy yesterday in NYC who I told don't charge it, don't ride it last week... he didn't listen.. has surgery today, broken fibula

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I received the Nikola around Christmas time. I started riding it once I got back from vacation. Moved to a new place in Feb, hence why the longer commute starting from then.

 

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18 hours ago, mrelwood said:

This is currently a huge issue. It should be clearly printed in the front page of the user manual. In bold. But the way the community has been able to gather this information has required reading about hundreds of descriptions on EUC battery issues of all wear levels, learning about li-ion batteries in general, dissecting several packs and examining their BMS behavior from photos (which by itself nearly requires an EE degree), etc. I see all this as a huge accomplishment! Now it’s time to feed the information and the graveness of distributing it to the retailers and manufacturers.

Is there a post somewhere on this forum stickied with this information? If there was then there is no excuse for me and I should've read it. But if there isn't one, maybe we can do our part and make one? Just so newcomers know to charge their devices to 100%.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, davinche said:

Is there a post somewhere on this forum stickied with this information? If there was then there is no excuse for me and I should've read it. But if there isn't one, maybe we can do our part and make one? Just so newcomers know to charge their devices to 100%.

There are several topics that touch the subject, but nothing stickied. I do think the tips should be presented better with a beginner in mind. I wouldn’t blame you for missing the topic altogether, but I do blame Ewheels for not including this crucial bit of information with their chargers that enable partial charging. I just sent them an email about the subject yesterday, so hopefully it will change.

 

Edited by mrelwood

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Posted (edited)

 
This is definitely not associated with BMS / Charger. Otherwise, the battery would burn while charging
Edited by Rafal

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Rafal said:

This is definitely not associated with BMS / Charger.

Don't rule it out. While the fire did not occur during charging, charging is the activity that created the state of the pack (whether perfect or imperfect) that was present at the time of the fire.

We are unlikely to get a definitive root-cause for this one, so please use it as a reminder to exercise best practices:

On 5/6/2020 at 11:41 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

Life can be simple...

"Charge overnight before a ride"

Don't charge after a ride, unless you're going to ride again immediately. (Minimizes storage SOC.)

I truly think this is all that would be needed for most EUC owners to keep their packs happy. If they knew this and nothing else, I think we'd be in a better place than today.
Perhaps some Z10's would self-discharge during long-term storage and need manual recovery... but if you put a Gotway in the basement at 3.3V/cell (unridable), come back 6mos later and I think you'll find it happily resting at 3.0 and ready to recharge.

The only remaining concern is fire safety... I'm comfortable charging indoors overnight (with me sleeping upstairs), for unmodified EUCs, that aren't soaking wet, using OEM chargers.
Start adding jenky untested custom stuff, and 'sleeping upstairs while charging' would stop.

 

Edited by RagingGrandpa

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Posted (edited)
On 6/1/2020 at 3:13 AM, fbhb said:

Note: Recent comments on the Facebook post have since stated this Monster was a 3108wh 21700 from Ali seller Loomo.

Below is another short clip that shows the wheel ignite with the rider still onboard, just before he got dumped in the road! Scary, Scary scenes!!!

 

Sweet, this video has it all! Well, maybe missing a few ingredients, but great vid! Sucks this happens and I may be bold by riding with little gear, but I'm not bold enough to modify packs or sleep with a wheel charging in my home while I sleep. Do these 3rd party 'installers' carry insurance on their business'? You know, the kind that pays the consumer, when the builder loses a lawsuit? Imagine riding in the woods when something like this happens. It'll only take ONE forest on fire, ONE car on fire, ONE house or ONE gas station on fire, to bring the hammer down on all this stuff we are enjoying so much. And whats up with the crowd of eucs, being a detriment to the flow of traffic? Playing in the street is fun, but gone are the days when youll find lots of streets with no traffic. Imagine what people in cars are muttering under their breath, as euc riders impede their flow and THEN see one ignite as a rider hits the pavement!

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Sweet, this video has it all! Well, maybe missing a few ingredients, but great vid! Sucks this happens and I may be bold by riding with little gear, but I'm not bold enough to modify packs or sleep with a wheel charging in my home while I sleep. Do these 3rd party 'installers' carry insurance on their business'? You know, the kind that pays the consumer, when the builder loses a lawsuit? Imagine riding in the woods when something like this happens. It'll only take ONE forest on fire, ONE car on fire, ONE house or ONE gas station on fire, to bring the hammer down on all this stuff we are enjoying so much. And whats up with the crowd of eucs, being a detriment to the flow of traffic? Playing in the street is fun, but gone are the days when youll find lots of streets with no traffic. Imagine what people in cars are muttering under their breath, as euc riders impede their flow and THEN see one ignite as a rider hits the pavement!

Cigarettes have caused forrest fires,  gas station fires, and house fires...should cigarettes be band because they can sometimes start fires? People are wild and reckless on bikes, skateboards, scooters and even cars in traffic. People have caused death and destruction with all forms of transportation. Should all these forms of transportation be ban because they can sometimes irritate others and be dangerous. The behavior of the average impatient suburban commuter in a car or SUV( speeding, texting, running red lights and aggressive vengeful driving) is far more concerning and dangerous compared to any EUC activity that can ever be achieved. Also let's be courteous to drivers as we wish they are to us.

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Most of the subdivisions around me have very few cars early to mid evening.  Sometmies I can do 20km and maybe see only 2-3 moving cars in the subdivision.  I kid you not.

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12 minutes ago, Planemo said:

If true, this is and always has been my concern with harvested cells and I said as much many months ago when the rumours went around that some suppliers were using used Tesla cells. My issue is not even so much that they are used, it's more to do with the fact that I don't imagine (and call me sceptical) that the Chinese would spend any real time making sure the used cells are matched. At least with new cells, they come out batched which means they are pretty well matched without even being tested. Theres every chance that the Tesla cells have been taken from different cars, having done completely different mileages/uses and then thrown into a wheel with no checking of individual cell performance.

Yes, pretty much this. Sounds very plausible. Used cells that are not matched coupled with a belief that batteries last longer if charged only to 80 % and do that for 6-12 months, they will certainly be very unbalanced and the risk of fire is high. Lack of proper BMS does not help either. 

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