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Hunka Hunka Burning Love

My My How Times Have Changed!

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Nice! Hope other cities copy this. I wonder though if ebikes with both electric assist and thumb throttle is allowed. I'm guessing not since the Juiced Scrambler is under the prohibited section. Also 20kmh is the speed limit for all allowed vehicles.

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11 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I'm not longer a criminal!!  :w00t2:

Nice! In Spain they've concocted an odd law (yet to be passed) where we're only allowed to ride on roads (no paths, no bike lanes), but can't exceed 25 km/h (and thus, keep up with traffic). Not sure how they expect that to play out...

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But what would be the perfect law that would cover ourselves and other PEVs? There's been tonnes of debate but it's difficult to say that's the best way forward. If we have EUC's riding at 35mph+ on the road with no insurance and (possibly) no driving license then it's not going to be long before we make headlines in the newspaper. Some folk seem to have no idea that pedestrians like to feel safe and ride far too fast on pavements. What rules do make sense?

My own attempt at a "law" would be 6mph on pavements, 20mph on the road unless you have 3rd party insurance and a driving license of some sort in which case you could do 30mph. Obviously 3rd party insurance would have to be available.

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6 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

My own attempt at a "law" would be 6mph on pavements, 

Define "pavements" = sidewalks, places with pedestrians?

Cheers

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Places where people walk. (I guess this illustrates the difficulty of defining laws :) )

 

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4 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

But what would be the perfect law that would cover ourselves and other PEVs? There's been tonnes of debate but it's difficult to say that's the best way forward. If we have EUC's riding at 35mph+ on the road with no insurance and (possibly) no driving license then it's not going to be long before we make headlines in the newspaper. Some folk seem to have no idea that pedestrians like to feel safe and ride far too fast on pavements. What rules do make sense?

My own attempt at a "law" would be 6mph on pavements, 20mph on the road unless you have 3rd party insurance and a driving license of some sort in which case you could do 30mph. Obviously 3rd party insurance would have to be available.

The city of Barcelona's policy (which is different from the national policy) is reasonable enough. Riding on the sidewalk is forbidden (which I agree with...pedestrians need a place to feel safe, and setting speeds on sidewalks doesn't work, or at least, wouldn't here because no one would respect them), we're allowed to ride in bike lanes, with the max. speed being 15 km/h for bike lanes that are on the sidewalk, and 25 km/h for bike lanes that are on the road. We're also allowed to ride (at 25 km/h) in one-lane-per-direction streets where the speed limit is 30 km/h (which comprises quite a lot of the city). PEV associations are pushing for a separate category with 45 km/h speed limit, allowed to ride on roads but requiring insurance, license plate, driving license (or license of some sort, yet to be defined) and helmet. It's tricky though, because the minute technical requirements are brought up, the lack of mechanical, independent brakes always comes up, so we remain in a sort of limbo...

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17 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Yeah 20 kph sucks!  :whistling:  But probably safer in general.  LOL imagine getting a speeding ticket on an EUC!  50 in a 20 zone!  :D  Thems would be braggin' rights!

We have 20kmh restrictions in Sweden too are treated as cyclist in traffic meaning preferred cycle lane but can go on roads with 50kmh max or country roads. If riding slower than walking speeds we can go in pedestrian street areas but in general not indoors like malls and such.

I thought you stopped riding. Since I rarely see you around have you seen the latest innovation to EUCs yet?

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

But what would be the perfect law that would cover ourselves and other PEVs? There's been tonnes of debate but it's difficult to say that's the best way forward. If we have EUC's riding at 35mph+ on the road with no insurance and (possibly) no driving license then it's not going to be long before we make headlines in the newspaper. Some folk seem to have no idea that pedestrians like to feel safe and ride far too fast on pavements. What rules do make sense?

My own attempt at a "law" would be 6mph on pavements, 20mph on the road unless you have 3rd party insurance and a driving license of some sort in which case you could do 30mph. Obviously 3rd party insurance would have to be available.

 
 

Instead of expecting the government to try to identify/classify and regulate each new type of vehicle individually, what's needed are generalized classes/categories for *all* micro-vehicles based on size/weight and speed. Then they could base legislation on these classes/categories instead of separately for each new type of device.

(Otherwise every time a new device comes out [from Segways around the turn of the century to the hoverboard fad to current controversy over e-scooters to the perpetual limbo of esk8 and EUCs, etc], there's always a mad dash of: "What is it? Is it legal? The law is ambiguous. How do we regulate it? We need new laws..." --coupled with uncertainty and at times cities/law enforcement seemingly making it up as they go along in the interim depending on time & place.)

So for example there should be categories such as:

  • Pedestrian-class/extreme- slow & light micro-vehicles - under 10-12 mph and ~25-30 lbs - allowed on sidewalks/walking paths, should not be on roads (perhaps excluding some portion of low-speed & low-traffic residential neighborhoods), no paperwork required. This would subsume kids' and/or other extremely-low-speed (typically entry-level) (e-)scooters, EUC's, mini-Segways, etc.
  • Mid-range micro-vehicles - under 25-30 mph and under ~75-100 lbs - allowed on what are now called bike lanes/paths (which should really be rebranded as micro-vehicle [MV] lanes or something similar) and lower-speed roads (probably those with speed limits of 35-40 mph or lower) but not highways, no paperwork required (just like bicycles and skateboards). This would subsume most mid-range (e-)bikes, (e-)scooters, (e-)skateboards, EUC's, etc.
  • Etc--at some point defining the boundaries between the largest micro-vehicles (crazy fast enthusiast esk8, EUCs, etc/high speed electric bicycles/very small electric motorcycles) and the types of roads/speed limits where they're allowed on one hand, and things like traditional mopeds/motorcycles which are much heavier on the other hand, and also setting the point at which such devices require paperwork/registration/etc.
Edited by AtlasP

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4 hours ago, Unventor said:

I thought you stopped riding. Since I rarely see you around have you seen the latest innovation to EUCs yet?

It's been one of those "I really should if I could but ends up I wouldn't" type of situations.  Does that make sense?  Shoulda coulda woulda.  It's difficult to stop the addiction completely!  :facepalm:   

With the covid stuff easing up, I'm itching again to go for a roll.  Nope I haven't seen the latest.  What did I miss?  :w00t2:

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7 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Nope I haven't seen the latest.  What did I miss?  :w00t2:

[With a big fat Brittish accent] Flipping egg you got to be joking!!?!

(Did that come out right @stephen?)

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18 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

There was an adjustment made almost two years ago that allows bicycles to ride on even faster roads provided that it is more suitable having the destination in mind.
For instance heading from Västerhaninge to Årsta Havsbad the bike path ends and one can go off-road through a crazy trail or just take the 70kmh road.
Riding on 70kmh roads is a bit unnerving though as cars constantly swish by at high speed.

The same adjustment also states that we can ride freely on 50kmh and below roads without bike lanes needing to be preferred.

Transportstyrelesen has still not updated their site with this info but it can be found at regeringen.se

https://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2018/06/cyklar-och-bilar-pa-samma-bana/

The fun starts when we ride at restricted 20kmh and every single bicycle out there passes us... some at over 50kmh.

this is why I hope new EU rules allow 45kmh PEV if registered and having insurance. As the wheel you become legal more pratical and that should an incident occor you can have insurance cover. If I could I would get insurance now, But there is none that provide this in Sweden as of now, that I know off. I know you could technically rehister your wheel as Emoped type 2 allowing for 45kmh but it forces you to have an insurance that none provide. (simply as chicked egg delima, no demand as none have it).

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6 hours ago, Unventor said:

this is why I hope new EU rules allow 45kmh PEV if registered and having insurance. As the wheel you become legal more pratical and that should an incident occor you can have insurance cover. If I could I would get insurance now, But there is none that provide this in Sweden as of now, that I know off. I know you could technically rehister your wheel as Emoped type 2 allowing for 45kmh but it forces you to have an insurance that none provide. (simply as chicked egg delima, no demand as none have it).

I have insurance for me 18XL and 16X. Not an extension of my house insurance covering the wheel, but public liability, so if someone skips a red light, I swerve, bail and the wheel runs away and hit a car (or a person), any damages are covered. Am very thankful for that. Funny I can get PEV insurance when the law is unclear about whether we're even a vehicle or not. Spain will be Spain...

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7 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I have insurance for me 18XL and 16X. Not an extension of my house insurance covering the wheel, but public liability, so if someone skips a red light, I swerve, bail and the wheel runs away and hit a car (or a person), any damages are covered. Am very thankful for that. Funny I can get PEV insurance when the law is unclear about whether we're even a vehicle or not. Spain will be Spain...

You can pay for but what it covers when you need it might be a different matter. :w00t2:

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2 minutes ago, Unventor said:

You can pay for but what it covers when you need it might be a different matter. :w00t2:

If hired, they have to cover all public liability (damage to others). Whether they decide to use loop-holes in their favour you demand I pay them back is another matter altogether...

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14 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

I can't speak for any other nation but to be honest I think EUC's in the UK are on borrowed time :(

A couple of years ago EUC's were far less powerful and there was a case for campaigning the government to recognise them as a serious mode of urban transport regulate there usage to comply with laws.

My guess is we've now missed that opportunity, EUC's in the UK are not gaining any momentum as a realistic urban travel option but have become the domain of enthusiasts who crave bigger machines with more power. When EUC's had limited power we should have been calling for a change in the law to get them recognised as a realistic transport and discuss the legality with the government but we have left it too late. Very few wheels now are in the hands of commuters and almost every new wheel on the market is aimed at enthusiasts with ever more powerful motors etc.

Like I say I can't speak for other nations and I do hope I'm wrong in my prediction, but realistically the UK government won't turn a blind eye to 2000w (3hp) machines capable of 30+mph on public roads (or pavements) for much longer. We'll get away with it for a while but the honeymoon period will stop unless there is a huge change toward attracting the commuter market.

 

 

@Afeez Kay I know you are continues talking of more  speed and power but I think the above post are more correct and that this will impact you option to sell wheels in UK too. 

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I was pulled over today by a policeman in Yakima, Washington; who admittedly did not know if EUC's were legal or not.  I told him it was in the class 3 E-bike, and was legal on the road.  He told me he clocked me at 30 MPH in a 30 zone.  He actually pulled me over for an intersection avoidance (going through a parking lot as a shortcut instead of waiting at a traffic light) But he was nice and did not give me a ticket.  It was an information exchange, and I was happy to educate him.  Another Policeman showed up and he just wanted to ask questions and watch me ride :)

 

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On 5/31/2020 at 4:20 AM, Mike Sacristan said:

There was an adjustment made almost two years ago that allows bicycles to ride on even faster roads provided that it is more suitable having the destination in mind.
For instance heading from Västerhaninge to Årsta Havsbad the bike path ends and one can go off-road through a crazy trail or just take the 70kmh road.
Riding on 70kmh roads is a bit unnerving though as cars constantly swish by at high speed.

The same adjustment also states that we can ride freely on 50kmh and below roads without bike lanes needing to be preferred.

Transportstyrelesen has still not updated their site with this info but it can be found at regeringen.se

https://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2018/06/cyklar-och-bilar-pa-samma-bana/

The fun starts when we ride at restricted 20kmh and every single bicycle out there passes us... some at over 50kmh.

The main roads outside my subdivision are 70-90km/h and people typically go 15-20km/h over...bicycles legally allowed...

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