Cut Offs and Battery Power

[LiamN]

Hi guys,

After having an EUC for 3 years, I still have bits to learn.

I currently have my first wheel; MSuper V3 and my current wheel; MSX.

I have my first two alarms and tiltback disabled on my MSX and haven't taken it to top speed at all, therefore, I haven't heard the warning beeps for my last alarm. 

What I was wondering is at 100 percent battery, it's possible to hit the last alarm at say 30mph (Not sure what it's set by default) and slow down, but if I had say 50 percent battery, would the alarm still come on at 30mph or relevant to the output power, warning you from overpowering? Is it just speed based alarms?

Will the wheel allow you to overpower it, or will it always beep depending on what output it's giving? 

How do you know how much power output you have left, relevant to what battery percentage you have left? 

It's really hard to write what I'm asking haha, hopefully it comes across okay and someone can give me a solid answer.

The scenario is, when I'm riding at full battery, I'm not concentrating fully on speed as I know the alarm will sound if I go too fast, whereas when the battery power is lower, I take note and slow down as I don't want to Overpower the wheel and not hear an alarm. 

I'm hoping the last alarm sounds when you're close to maximum output and not a set speed. If this wasn't the case, riding at 40 percent battery would be really dangerous as the wheel has less to give and possibly not even reach the speed your alarm is set at. 

Please can someone firstly fathom out what I'm trying to say and possibly come up with a clear answer!

Thank you!

Liam.

 

[mrelwood]

 

4 hours ago, Liam MSuperV3 said:

would the alarm still come on at 30mph or relevant to the output power, warning you from overpowering? Is it just speed based alarms?

MSX has only speed based alarms and battery voltage alarms. The third alarm plays at 58km/h at 100% battery, going down linearly to 45km/h at 10% battery.

 The battery voltage alarm is more interesting. It plays whenever the battery voltage reaches down to 15%. If you accelerate very fast, the voltage drops a lot, and you will get the warning. So it does work the same as an overpower alarm.

4 hours ago, Liam MSuperV3 said:

Will the wheel allow you to overpower it, or will it always beep depending on what output it's giving? 

It doesn’t directly beep for the output power or current, so it is still possible to overpower the motor without a warning.

4 hours ago, Liam MSuperV3 said:

How do you know how much power output you have left, relevant to what battery percentage you have left?

This may sound terrifying, but you don’t. You just have to take it easy until you learn by experience where the limits are. And I don’t mean until you faceplant, but until you learn to feel your wheel well enough that you’ll have a pretty good idea. Luckily the MSX is a very powerful wheel, and you definitely don’t have to take it easy as you familiarize yourself with the wheel.

I weigh 210lbs, and during the two years I’ve ridden the 84V MSX, I’ve been pushing it more and more. I still don’t know exactly how much headroom there is left when I accelerate, but I do know the amount of thrust I’ve asked before that it has delivered without hesitation.

4 hours ago, Liam MSuperV3 said:

The scenario is, when I'm riding at full battery, I'm not concentrating fully on speed as I know the alarm will sound if I go too fast, whereas when the battery power is lower, I take note and slow down as I don't want to Overpower the wheel and not hear an alarm.

And that’s exactly what you should continue doing. 40% battery at rest does reach 15% quite easily if you push it, so you will get an alarm before you overload the wheel. As long as you do it slow enough that you have time to react once you hear the beeps.

[Chriull]

9 hours ago, Liam MSuperV3 said:

Will the wheel allow you to overpower it, or will it always beep depending on what output it's giving? 

Yes - every wheel allows overpowering. More precisely said no wheel can prevent overpowering in any way, as they are self balancing. Self balancing needs "power reserves" and "power" is limited (by speed and burden). So once one reaches the systems(euc) limit self balancing is out of function and most, but some very gifted ones faceplant.

KS seems to have a real "system overpower" related alarm - but it beeps at 88% and with the acceleration possibilties of modern wheels this still can lead to an alarm beyond reaction time possibilities...:(

So EUC riding needs some common sense (no (high) accelerations at high(er)speeds) and/or more development of sophisticated safety measurements (only warnings are possible) from manufacturer side.

For more, quite technical information take a look at 

 

[LiamN]

@mrelwood

Thank you for your detailed reply. That's a massive help.

So what I can gather, the danger is accelerating too quickly, especially with a lower battery? Also, just to clarify, as long as your not accelerating too quickly at a higher speeds, you should be fine as long as you heed warning from the alarms? 

I'm not a very erratic rider and tend to only go faster on quiet open roads so as long as I increase speed slowly, I should always hear an alarm warning me of speed or low battery voltage?

I've only been on a handful of rides on my MSX so far and I'm really keen to learn the limits of the wheel, and I'm enjoying getting to know the capabilities. 

The reason I asked this in the first place was because my Msuper cut out before with no warning or tiltback a couple of years a go. I'm certain it was accelerating too quickly and overleaning, so I never pushed it that hard again, to avoid the faceplant!  Sounds the same as the above post from @Chriull. Thank you for your reply also. 

What has been your top speed on your MSX?

On 5/24/2020 at 10:21 PM, mrelwood said:

MSX has only speed based alarms and battery voltage alarms. The third alarm plays at 58km/h at 100% battery, going down linearly to 45km/h at 10%.

Is this factually true? I'm not doubting, it's just my top speed I've hit so far is 37km/h which means I have quite a bit more to play with! 

Thanks again for your replies!

Much appreciated.

Liam

[RagingGrandpa]

On 4/11/2019 at 3:16 PM, Jason McNeil said:

 

41 minutes ago, LiamN said:

Is this factually true?

Yes

Edited May 27, 2020 by RagingGrandpa

[Mike Sacristan]

Monika hit 55 kmh the other day... I am beginning to fear for her. She had Darknessbot set to 45 kmh but just kept going.

Here is some footage from the ride. Both Thomas and Monika are riding MSX 84v.

The MSX requires quite a lot if intent to get it to go fast... but as time passes you will become accustomed to it.

Some people will reach 5 beeps on their first day. It took Monika several weeks to hit 30 kmh.

 

Forgot to add... I once hit the 5 beeps at 45.8 kmh and 9% battery. 

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

as long as your not accelerating too quickly at a higher speeds, you should be fine as long as you heed warning from the alarms?

Yes.

If you are indeed an easier rider, there is probably a huge amount of headroom with your current style, at all situations. I weigh about 103kg + gear, and for the two years I’ve owned the MSX, I’ve been pushing it more and more. I have had a few pants wetting scares, but the MSX has always pushed through without blinking. The amount of power the MSX has is ridiculous!

But it does end at some point, so one must be considerate when pushing the limits. It’s difficult for the rider to determine exactly how much power one uses, so some headroom must always be left for safety. The available balancing power does drop steeply when increasing the speed.

Quote

my Msuper cut out before with no warning or tiltback a couple of years a go. I'm certain it was accelerating too quickly and overleaning

If you are indeed certain it was an overlean, you did right by not pushing as much again. The MSX does however have a lot more power than the 1500W and lower Msupers, and 37km/h is nothing for the beast! But tread slowly, don’t find the precise limits!

Quote

What has been your top speed on your MSX?

Something like 53km/h I imagine. My top speed is usually 47km/h, but I have pushed it beyond 50 a rare few times. I do know that some people have reached 60km/h with the 84V MSX. 

Quote

Is this factually true?

Yes, the warning speed reduction curves for various GW wheels were reported by GW themselves.

Edited May 28, 2020 by mrelwood

[LiamN]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

Yes.

If you are indeed an easier rider, there is probably a huge amount of headroom with your current style, at all situations. I weigh about 103kg + gear, and for the two years I’ve owned the MSX, I’ve been pushing it more and more. I have had a few pants wetting scares, but the MSX has always pushed through without blinking. The amount of power the MSX has is ridiculous!

But it does end at some point, so one must be considerate when pushing the limits. It’s difficult for the rider to determine exactly how much power one uses, so some headroom must always be left for safety. The available balancing power does drop steeply when increasing the speed.

If you are indeed certain it was an overlean, you did right by not pushing as much again. The MSX does however have a lot more power than the 1500W and lower Msupers, and 37km/h is nothing for the beast! But tread slowly, don’t find the precise limits!

Something like 53km/h I imagine. My top speed is usually 47km/h, but I have pushed it beyond 50 a rare few times. I do know that some people have reached 60km/h with the 84V MSX. 

Yes, the warning speed reduction curves for various GW wheels were reported by GW themselves.

This is awesome news! Just a little more information was required to boost my confidence on this powerhouse. I'm a very confident rider anyway and took to these little wheels easily. I did so much research before buying one I thought I knew it all, but no matter how much you read, or watch, you'll never truly understand until your riding. 

Agree with what you previously wrote about "Getting a feel for it". The power below your feet is incredible and you can feel when it's got more to give. I won't be riding at ridiculous speeds all the time anyway, just for clarification. This was a safety query above all. 

As you said, "Find the limits, but not at the cost of a wipeout". The more knowledge gained and shared around, the safer all riders around the world will be, hopefully. 

Thank you for your time and contribution, you've been awesome!

[LiamN]

10 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Monika hit 55 kmh the other day... I am beginning to fear for her. She had Darknessbot set to 45 kmh but just kept going.

Here is some footage from the ride. Both Thomas and Monika are riding MSX 84v.

The MSX requires quite a lot if intent to get it to go fast... but as time passes you will become accustomed to it.

Some people will reach 5 beeps on their first day. It took Monika several weeks to hit 30 kmh.

 

Forgot to add... I once hit the 5 beeps at 45.8 kmh and 9% battery. 

Awesome, with a little time I'll be more used to going a bit faster. 

Great footage btw, she definitely has more balls than me haha!

[Mike Sacristan]

28 minutes ago, LiamN said:

Awesome, with a little time I'll be more used to going a bit faster. 

Great footage btw, she definitely has more balls than me haha!

Thanks! I like to monitor speed with an app and external speaker.
Or at the very least being able to hear/feel notifications from the phone.

Both EUCWorld (Android) and Darknessbot (iOS) can do this. So you could set the speed alarm to 35 kmh and practice hitting 35 kmh more and more often.
Then once you hit it too often creep the alarm up to 40 kmh.

[Planemo]

12 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Monika hit 55 kmh the other day... I am beginning to fear for her. She had Darknessbot set to 45 kmh but just kept going.

I must admit I never comment on whether other riders decide to gear up or not, but I cant help saying how nervous I am watching Moniker. Maybe its because shes female, maybe because shes relatively inexperienced, maybe its still the fall out from Anthony Edwards' crash in my head. Its totally not my place to say anything but it does make me twitchy Mike! Never felt the need to say something before but the last 2 rides I have watched seem to show Moniker pushing harder than the previous gentle rides I have seen you guys doing. Not preaching though bud, I know you are all fully aware of the risks. Would just hate to see her risk losing her looks (I'm not bothered about yours, you are ugly enough as it is 

 

[RagingGrandpa]

4 hours ago, Planemo said:

I know you are all fully aware of the risks.

Chill 30mph ride with our locals... everyone dressed for the slide, way it should be. One of these riders had an electrical cutout 2 days later (no injury).

Wear your gear and tell your friends.

 

[Mike Sacristan]

14 hours ago, Planemo said:

I must admit I never comment on whether other riders decide to gear up or not, but I cant help saying how nervous I am watching Moniker. Maybe its because shes female, maybe because shes relatively inexperienced, maybe its still the fall out from Anthony Edwards' crash in my head. Its totally not my place to say anything but it does make me twitchy Mike! Never felt the need to say something before but the last 2 rides I have watched seem to show Moniker pushing harder than the previous gentle rides I have seen you guys doing. Not preaching though bud, I know you are all fully aware of the risks. Would just hate to see her risk losing her looks (I'm not bothered about yours, you are ugly enough as it is 

 

I agree I get nervous watching her too. For the reasons you mention. She is female and also she is inexperienced. Which I notice every time a new situation appears for her and how she handles it. Today she did some backwards practice on the Ninebot One E+ and hurt her ankle. Of all the stupid things. And she has a Zumba Masterclass on Saturday. Hope she wakes up feeling better.

I will see if I can get her to wear her body armor + helmet on the next cruise if she wants to go fast. Or we just do a chill cruise and do some off-roading instead. Not everything is about going fast. She did say that we other riders were pushing her. LOL... how can I push her when i'm on the 16X.

Thanks for your concern and for putting it so gently and respectfully. I appreciate it.  

[LiamN]

21 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Thanks! I like to monitor speed with an app and external speaker.
Or at the very least being able to hear/feel notifications from the phone.

Both EUCWorld (Android) and Darknessbot (iOS) can do this. So you could set the speed alarm to 35 kmh and practice hitting 35 kmh more and more often.
Then once you hit it too often creep the alarm up to 40 kmh.

Thanks for the advice, I just set up EUC World yesterday! 

I'll post an update in a couple of weeks and let you know how it went. No Faceplants! 😄