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Where to fasten the leash? Rider side.

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Posted (edited)

Where would be best to fasten a leash to the body? A 25Kg EUC at 30+Km/h probably develops many hundred Kg in inertia, and would tug pretty hard.

Lets say the leash is strong, would it be better to tug the ankle and possibly get your leg out of joint, or a hip belt where you have the risk of the spine close by?

Ideally we should have a perfectly balanced break off part of the leash, but given the choice I’ll rather risk myself than others.

Maybe @Rehab1 would have better insight than most here? Thanks for any thoughts and cheers.

Edited by null

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Maybe a slightly stretchy leash at one’s waist could be the least destructive? I definitely would never use one myself though.

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Posted (edited)

You have King Songs, so attach a clothesline to the center of the handle. I wrapped my handle with auto masking tape, then cut about 10' off the neighbor's clothes line pole (a little foraging can go a long way).

Tie a thumb knot in the end, then loop it around the handle, then another thumb knot around the rope forming a slip knot.

Wrap the clothes line around your 4 fingers, holding them about chest high, then remove the loops from your hand.

Unwind about 3 loops and slip the end through the loops, wrap the line around the bunch, then slip the end through the other end of loops and tie it around the windings you made using a thumb knot. (This prevents the loops from pulling through.)

Hold the bunch of loops in your hand and off you go! If you lose wheel control, jump off and raise the arm holding the rope chest high and you'll easily catch the wheel. The wheel will stop itself due to the rope tilting it backwards and engaging the "motor brake."

This all is super simple, fast, and easy. Painter's tape, unlike masking tape, doesn't leave a sticky residue behind; I just happen to have auto-masking tape, which is really safe stuff to use on EUCs. I don't do laundry, so had to find some rope to "borrow," but you could use a belt or knot socks together or something...

I use the "leash" to keep the wheel from dumping over, plus if it went careening into someone or their car...I'm trying to be a responsible rider. Anyway, I DO NOT tie it to myself, and DO NOT wrap the rope around my fingers as it could break them. If the EUC gets away by pulling the rope hard it won't get far before tipping over due to straining against the rope while I was holding it.

Edited by WI_Hedgehog

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Posted (edited)

I started using a leash soon after I began learning to ride.  I have seen my wheel take off and not stop until it hit the tennis court fence.

I make my leash out of paracord.   The ends terminate in snap hooks to fasten around the handle of the wheel and other end goes through one of my belt loops.  The leash has a breakaway barrel connecter near the end that attaches to my belt loop.  I don't want to be permanently attached to the wheel.

Everything needed is available from Paracord Planet.

Bruce

ParaCord Leash.jpg

Edited by PennBruce

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I've had my wheel go careening off without me.  Someday it will hit something expensive, or someone who won't appreciate it or will get hurt. I've been looking for a solution that balances the need to keep the wheel from continuing far without me against the desire not to hurt myself in the process of ensuring that. @PennBruce's solution looks like a good one, and I may end up creating a similar solution. Being lazy, I've decided to give this a try first: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0088MQA0G. Specifically the 48" "large carabiner" option. This is a so-called gear tether, which uses a nylon or kevlar string on a retractable reel. The reel will go on a belt loop, and the other end will be attached to the wheel's handle. My belief is that this thing is probably strong enough to give the wheel quite a tug before breaking, causing it to get yanked backward and sideways enough to keep it from going far. The product description claims an 80lb breaking strength on the string, although I suspect it's not the string that would break first, but the attach point at the reel end, or maybe even the belt loop on my pants. If upon receiving it this product seems too strong, or if the reel doesn't seem reliable, I'll reconsider something like the above, with the paracord and the breakaway barrel connector.

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12 minutes ago, svenomous said:

Check this out. One of the threads linked there discusses body attach points:

EUC: "Basically a land torpedo." :shock2:

I like the idea of looping excess through the belt but not tying it...the rope ought to keep some pressure on the wheel, but not wreck your body.

Some of that stuff is really funny:

On 8/8/2017 at 1:09 PM, Catlord17 said:

Once I fell off the wheel doing slightly too much speed to find balance on my feet fast enough, and the wheel began to "flip out" trying to correct for not having consistent contact with the road.  Before I was able to get balance and lift it up, it spun around, jumped off the road, hit me hard in my left upper thigh and nailed me in the nuts.

 

17 minutes ago, PennBruce said:

I make my leash out of paracord.   The ends terminate in snap hooks to fasten around the handle of the wheel and other end goes through one of my belt loops.  The leash has a breakaway barrel connecter near the end that attaches to my belt loop.  I don't want to be permanently attached to the wheel.

Black Nano Cord - 300 Feet
Breakaway POP Barrel Connectors - Black
Mini Carabiners - Black
20% Discount Coupon: WELCOME20
Total: $19.71

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the insights everyone!

 @svenomous, Great, I did a search but didn’t see this. Will check it out and recap.

@PennBruce Yes the break off part is probably good to have, especially with paracord which AFAIK doesn’t stretch. I might add something like that to my surf leach, though the priority is accident on others.

edit: I’m going through the long thread on leashes, there are several people going “a runaway wheel would never hurt anyone”. Having seen a puny NBS2 at barely 20km/h literally fly up in the air (bounced a curb) then crashing into a utility pole.. I sure don’t want to be responsible for having crushed someone with a 18XL cannon ball. If your in the countryside your risk may be low, but in the city there are random pedestrians everywhere.

edit 2: “where” to fasten the leash isn’t talked of, some do leg, others belt. I’ll probably do leg as it is less crucial than the spine.

Edited by null

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Posted (edited)

My only concern with the paracord solution is that it's not flexible or retractable. It becomes hard to choose just the right length to allow normal operation, without also potentially getting snagged on something and causing an accident. Someone (sorry, forget who ) posted a story of their leash getting pushed into the wheel from behind by strong wind, being ingested into the wheel, and getting shredded while the rider got (somewhat safely) ejected. Any cord with slack will tend to trail backward while riding, but could be upset in turns or by crosswinds, causing it to catch on something.

The only reason I do consider the paracord solution a viable one, though, is the idea of a breakaway barrel as discussed above. If that works well and has just the right breakaway strength, the cord might snag on something and not cause a major upset. Maybe.

Edited by svenomous
Added the last paragraph as an afterthought. Corrected a wrong word.

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1 hour ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

300' is a bit much.  I buy 10' sections.

Bruce

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11 minutes ago, PennBruce said:

300' is a bit much.  I buy 10' sections.

Bruce

I couldn't find 10' sections...now I have a LOT of cord... :rolleyes:
I wanted the lightest duty [quality] stuff so everything would break at low stress levels "just in case." Like 36# paracord should generally break before major damage occurs. I'll make a few cords for the hoverboards and one for the EUC, and another for the next EUC... :ph34r:

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, null said:

Maybe @Rehab1 would have better insight than most here? Thanks for any thoughts and cheers.

I like @PennBruce’s setup that has a rapid detachable mechanism.

When I’ve used a leash (tether) in the pa...st the loose end would be loosely tucked into my pant’s pocket. This method would allow me to grab the strap quick enough without being dragged down by the wheel’s inertia and momentum.

Edit: For those diehard riders pedal spikes imbedded into the soles of your shoes also prevents run away wheels. :facepalm:

Edited by Rehab1

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

 

:D yes that was the idea. Ill rather go for that than in debt for life or worse :) 
(have vehicle insurance but they could easily find a way to weasel our of EUC)

Mine is like this:

s-l300.jpg

 

Edited by null

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I'd go for retractable, you don't want that to get caught on anything...and belt rather than leg

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2 hours ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

I couldn't find 10' sections...now I have a LOT of cord...

Paracord Planet

Bruce

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3 hours ago, svenomous said:

My only concern with the paracord solution is that it's not flexible or retractable. It becomes hard to choose just the right length to allow normal operation, without also potentially getting snagged on something and causing an accident.

I ended up with a leash 39" long from the tip of one snap hook to the other snap hook.  The length will vary depending on the wheel and your inseam.

Bruce

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I couldn't find 10' sections...now I have a LOT of cord...

11 hours ago, PennBruce said:

Paracord Planet

After poking around on ParacordPlanet.com some more I could find 10' sections in 95#, 325#, 425#, 550#, though Micro or Nano sizes seem to come on spools only.

Micro is 100# minimum Tensile Strength, slightly more than 95#, though from a design standpoint I went with Nano because it has a 36# Tensile Strength and as members are pointing out, the unexpected should be expected. (If the EUC is hit by a car and drug for 500' I'd rather the 36# cord break than the 550# cord drag me along for the ride if it gets twisted around my ankle.

49867847898_623ac343e4_b.jpg

 

I'll do what @Rehab1 and others mentioned and leave a longer cord looped through my belt and stored in a pocket to add some resistance--but not at "pull me over" forces.

Maybe I'll make a few extra and throw them in the backpack for fellow EUC / hoverboard owners once the details are figured out.

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14 hours ago, null said:

Mine is like this:

s-l300.jpg

I have one of those too, it goes up in a straight line from the trolley handle to my belt (I fasten it with a carabiner for faster attaching/releasing) so it doesn't get in the way and there's no risk of it getting caught on anything. It (luckily) hasn't been put to the test yet, but I have the impression it'll offer enough resistance to tip the wheel on its size before snapping, which is neither more nor less than what I intend it to do. 

Haven't used it in a long time though... :whistling:

1 hour ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

I went with Nano because it has a 36# Tensile Strength and as members are pointing out, the unexpected should be expected. (If the EUC is hit by a car and drug for 500' I'd rather the 36# cord break than the 550# cord drag me along for the ride if it gets twisted around my ankle.

Hmmm...36 lb is about the same weight as your wheel, isn't it? My personal preference is to use something that weighs a fair bit less than the wheel. Even if it's an unlikely scenario, my evaluation procedure involves imagining myself hanging from a cliff edge with my wheel tethered to my person: Will the cord hold the wheel's weight (static, without taking inertia, acceleration, gravity and so forth into account)? If it will, or is very close, I'll go for something weaker.

I'm tempted to say that strength is about right for a 55 lb 18XL or 16X (20 lb less than the wheel's weight), but even if it snaps at the 36 lb mark, that's still one hell of a tug---more than enough to knock you off balance/mess up what could otherwise be a successful bail...

I think the ideal is something with enough tensile strength to give the wheel  tug to tip it over before snapping, but no more; with #36 you could probably just barely hang your wheel from it. I wouldn't tie it directly to the wheel, maybe use a plastic buckle or a swivel snap hook that's rated lower so it's the weaker link

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@travsformation, you are correct. In agreeing with you I bought Nano Cord because it is the lightest cord they had available. The Mini Carabiners are the lightest-duty non-plastic clips I found (plastic isn't very reliable in my opinion).

To your well-stated observations, 36# is a lot of tug, so I also bought some Breakaway POP Barrel Connectors, as @PennBruce mentioned. This seems a brilliant idea on his part and makes the whole system work.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, travsformation said:

Haven't used it in a long time though... :whistling:

I can see that one, big chance I´Le up doing that as well, but probably for inner city I’ll try to keep using it. 
 

As for break off limit; i sure wouldn’t want to be pulled off a cliff (or under water) due to the leash being too strong, but if it only takes 20kg static force, it won’t do much to stop a 40km/h cannon ball. ( I don’t know the math but several hundred Kg ). But then again that worse case scenario (which includes a rider that is suddenly static) is fairly unlikely. If you fall at high speed you’ll probably slide along with the wheel. If you loose control at low speed tugging the wheel so it flips might be enough.

One could 3D print a breakaway fitted for the use, testing the pull with a load till it breaks.

Anyway, just thinking out loud here :)

Edited by null

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1 hour ago, null said:

.....but if it only takes 20kg static force, it won’t do much to stop a 40km/h cannon ball.....

IMHO you're not trying to stop the wheel just unbalance it so it falls over.

Bruce

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Posted (edited)

If you set the wheel to angle slightly upward in the front (front is higher than rear), then the riderless wheel will coast to a halt regardless of incline (some wheels even creep upwards despite being supposedly neutral). Doing the opposite will allow the wheel to glide forever until it hits something.

Most Kingsongs and Inmotions allow this.

Finally, you can test and adjust the tilt angle to your liking by bowling your wheel, but most wheels are quite a bit biased towards the front or the back. Wheels only look symmetrical, but their asymetrical weight makes them behave quite differently when turned around.

Edited by LanghamP

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17 hours ago, LanghamP said:

If you set the wheel to angle slightly upward in the front (front is higher than rear), then the riderless wheel will coast to a halt regardless of incline

The effect from a few degrees of tilt is negligible if the wheel has any notable inertia, especially if they are worried about hitting an object in the near vicinity. And even two degrees is enough to warrant for a slightly different riding technique. I don’t think it would affect a potential lawsuit very much.

 If the cable could be attached to the outer edge of the pedal, the tipping effect would be the strongest. Pulling straight back from the handle will only slow down the wheel. Hopefully enough though.

I do keep wondering how the cable will handle a peaceful jump off /run off from the wheel to a random direction. Other than that you guys have taken the idea to nice heights.

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9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 If the cable could be attached to the outer edge of the pedal, the tipping effect would be the strongest. Pulling straight back from the handle will only slow down the wheel. Hopefully enough though.

Great point. King Song has angular handles, tie it to the rear. On Gotway tie it to one side rather than centered.

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