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someguy152

upgrading from a KS18s: Looking for least faulty, longlasting tire, 1500ishWh, Serviceable Trolley

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Posted (edited)

I think the last year or year and a half of wheels, Between the MSX, Nikola, 16x, 18XL, MSP, i could throw a dart and like anyone of them. What a great time!

For my current experience, (120lb short male)

my 2.5inch ks18s performs   so smooth at 20mph compared to the scary 2.125inch of the 16s, so the first question would be

are the 3inch x 16inch wheels of the nikola and 16x feel comparable to a 2.5x18? Do you feel pretty stable at 25mph (it's pretty hard for me to get up to 25mph on my 18s)?  Im not a speed demon but i don't necessarily mind the extra power as long as the unit doesn't weigh over 55lbs.

I get stressed out thinking about opening wheels up, but i think i know i'll eventually have to do so, so which of those wheels have the easiest procedures for opening and changing tires?

What about the longest lasting tire, I've seen many pics of the MSX tire looking like new after thousands of kms, while I saw and seen reports of Nikola tires going bare pretty fast.

The reason why I wrote serviceable trolley handle is, while a good one is very nice to have, i think that requirement would have excluded the MSX as I seem to hear a lot of negative things about it. is the MSX trolley at least usable for like 20ft?

Lastly, I suppose faster acceleration is more important than top speed, though i don't have an issue with the ks18s torque.

For anybody who has a 18s, how much wider are the MSX or Nikola?

Edited by someguy152
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You are correct, you could pick any one of those and be very happy about it. My understanding is that the 18S is already a very good wheel. I’m not sure how big of an upgrade these would be, though. The 16X will feel smaller and the Nikola feels wider. 18XL would be closest to your present wheel. MSX has a very different body and it might feel like an upgrade with the fatter tire. 
 

My recommendation for your situation is to wait two months and get the V11. Most likely a long lasting tire, 1500wh, maybe the best trolley in the business that can be changed without opening the wheel, Inmotion quality, 18x3” tire and suspension for safely riding through potholes. A true upgrade and similar taller body that you are used to. 

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great points. yea the issue with trying a msx or nikola would be if it's too wide.  i can't split my legs too much farther being short.  I really need to go to a bigger city and find ppl who'll let me test ride lol

while i've heard of basically nothing but great things about the v8 and seen how it's a tank

im considering the suspension models too, but will most likely wait for a year to pass before getting it. (by the time they iron out the kinks in the first few months, winter will be upon me.

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21 minutes ago, someguy152 said:

great points. yea the issue with trying a msx or nikola would be if it's too wide.

For a short guy, they indeed might. They and the 16X are all quite wide, and in addition the Nikola is tall making the width even more of a potential issue. Then again, the 18S is the tallest wheel of them all, so your technique could already compensate for that.

 Another aspect of GW wheels is that the firmware behavior requires slightly more physical effort from the rider to accelerate. For a short guy it may make the ride a bit less relaxed.

Quote

I really need to go to a bigger city and find ppl who'll let me test ride lol

That you really should do! Every unfamiliar wheel you get to ride gives your a new aspect and helps in comparing other wheels as well.

Regarding the 16x3” wheels in general, they handle very close to a 18” wheel, and very very differently than the small 16” wheels like the 16S and V8.

 While the H-5102 tire on the (now out of production) MSX doesn’t wear much, it grips almost like a slick tire from the get go. It’s a street tire. Both the MSP and the current 18XL come with the C-1488 (“Nikola tire”) though.

I don’t think there are vast differences between wheels in replacing the tire. If you haven’t done it before, it will take double the time on any wheel, and as you do it a few times, it becomes easy and familiar. You are probably not going to do it every year anyway, so it’s definitely not worth choosing or skipping a wheel for!

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17 hours ago, mrelwood said:

While the H-5102 tire on the (now out of production) MSX doesn’t wear much, it grips almost like a slick tire from the get go. It’s a street tire. Both the MSP and the current 18XL come with the C-1488 (“Nikola tire”) though.

good information that i was not aware of....why do you think gotway changed to the nikola tire?

 

17 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Then again, the 18S is the tallest wheel of them all, so your technique could already compensate for that.

 that's the tough part,  i feel totally fine on it so theoretically i should be ok on most of them....is there a spreadsheet you know of with twidths (among other stats) of all these devices you.

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On the ewheels website the spec charts show the width of the wheels most of the time. Which ones are you considering most seriously?

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if i were to buy new, probably the MSP or 16X...

in the used market, i'll buy whatever i can find a sweet deal.

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17 hours ago, someguy152 said:

good information that i was not aware of....why do you think gotway changed to the nikola tire?

I’d like to think that they finally understood that while the MSX was otherwise marvelously capable off-road, the original tire was not. Then again, based on the incredible decisions the manufacturers arrive in on so many aspects time and time again, I’m most probably wrong.

17 hours ago, someguy152 said:

is there a spreadsheet you know of with twidths (among other stats) of all these devices you.

This is the most comprehensive and easiest to use that I know of:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/17309-up-to-date-euc-comparison-table/

 

 

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Posted (edited)

thanks for that

at this point withotu trying them,  it seems like im trying to nitpick and criticize specific wheels to see which has an edge.

16x: how much dust really accumulates on the mainboard, is their new "fix" really going to fix that. if not is it easy to get to the mainboard and dust off? are cutouts still a thing of the past or still happen but its user error of going too hard

nikola: whats the best battery configuration for balanced riding

msx/p: how bad is the trolley handle, how bad are the pedal angles

haven't heard anything bad about the 18XL other than it's the boring cadillac, and worried it'd be too similar to my 18S

Edited by someguy152
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6 hours ago, someguy152 said:

nikola: whats the best battery configuration for balanced riding

For 45-50km/h max speeds the 84V one should do, but in general the biggest capacity you can afford and are ready to lug around is always the best.

6 hours ago, someguy152 said:

msx/p: how bad is the trolley handle, how bad are the pedal angles

The trolley can be learned to manage with, but if you plan on trolleying a lot, it will be a nuisance for a long time. The original MSX angles (13• & 15•) were too much for me. The MSP has even more, although if bought from eWheels with the Nikola pedals, the angle  should be much more comfortable.

Calling the 18XL “boring” is a bit funny though, as it’s still a magical electric unicycle that can reach (close to) 50km/h... Lack of annoyances is a good thing in my books. Although the speed throttling has gotten more severe with the 2200W motor upgrade.

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16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

For 45-50km/h max speeds the 84V one should do, but in general the biggest capacity you can afford and are ready to lug around is always the best.

oh sorry what i meant was that there were remarks by isthereanyfood and other commenters saying depending on the wh of ur Nikola, that creates speed wobbles because of the weight distribution.

 

 

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Lack of annoyances is a good thing in my books

sounds like that is something right up my alley.

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6 hours ago, someguy152 said:

oh sorry what i meant was that there were remarks by isthereanyfood and other commenters saying depending on the wh of ur Nikola, that creates speed wobbles because of the weight distribution.

The 1800Wh Nikola+ has two battery packs and is the preferred battery configuration for most riders when it comes to weight distribution. It feels more agile.
The 1845Wh Nikola+ with 3 battery packs is no longer made by Gotway anyway.
One would have to buy a Nikola from Loomo (AliExpress) to get 3 battery packs and then it would weigh quite a bit but also have crazy range.

The only time I have gotten speed wobbles on a Nikola is because it was new to me and windy.

I weigh 63kg, Monika weighs 62 kg and Petra weighs 57kg.

For Petra, coming from a Tesla she initially felt the Nikola+ was a bit sluggish and cumbersome. Until she hit 56 kmh on it. Then she was all smiles.
Monika seems to be able to carve it around quite easily... the same with the MSX. Maybe there is a difference in our bodyweight distribution. :roflmao:

I prefer the light and small wheel feel of the 16X although it can sometimes feel a bit sketchy at highs speeds.

MSX: 9500km and still original tyre.

Nikola tyre wears out faster at around 3000km. When it wears out put a Chao Yang on it maybe.

Since you are coming from an 18S I would just go for the Nikola+. It is a very stable high speed cruiser. The MSX is definitely more stable though imo. But that much harder to get moving and to get up to speed.

Does price matter? They are a few hundred dollars cheaper from AliExpress.

MSX: $1500
Nik+: $1650

The longest I have trolleyed my MSX is 5 km. Walking with a friend. I have never had any problem with the trolley handle unless I am clumsy.

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6 hours ago, someguy152 said:

@mrelwood @UniVehje

should i be concerned about the issues im reading regarding the KS16X water and dust issues?

How many miles do you have on your 18S?

Sure I had some dust in my 16X after 7000km but nothing mind blowing. I have been riding in the wet for a few thousand miles as well.
I avoid heavy rain but I have survived moderate rain. One could also use an EUC shower cap. 

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On 5/9/2020 at 11:32 AM, someguy152 said:

haven't heard anything bad about the 18XL other than it's the boring cadillac, and worried it'd be too similar to my 18S

The 18XL was the wheel I learned on. The general consensus from a lot of the members here would be a great choice for a first wheel(they were right) and I am very satisfied with it. I have since bought a Nikola Plus 100v 21700 as well. There is quite a difference. The most obvious difference is the size. The Nikola is quite a bit wider and taller. At slower speeds I feel the Nikola is more stable and more nimble. I think the wider tire is the reason.IMO the 2.5 Tire of the 18XL feels a little more lively at faster speeds while the Nikola feels more planted.

  The Nikola requires more effort to get going than the 18XL. I think ,the 18XL with the 2.0FW is just as quick as the Nikola from a start but The Nikola just goes like a rocket once it hits around 20 kph.Top speed is no contest, Nikola .

I find the stability on both excellent with the nod to the 18XL ,maybe. For me, I find the 18XL is easier to ride longer distances, say around 30 km and up. I think I'm more on the balls of my feet more on the Nikola and I get fatigued faster. I have only 300 km on the Nikola compared to the 700km plus I have on the 18XL, so I'm sure I'll get more comfortable as the distance increases . The Nikola is more sensitive to tire pressure and foot positioning than the 18XL. 

The Trolley Handle on the 18XL is excellent. If that is an important feature you need, it is clearly a winner over the Nikola. I find the Nikola handle works pretty good but I really don't use it that much. I use a roll.nz EUC BodyGuard on both.

Since my wife has learned and taken over the 18XL ,I'm riding the Nikola and loving it! I wanted a Nikola from the start but, in hindsight ,the 18XL was the better choice. to learn. I think with your experience you would really enjoy the Nikola.  If I was getting another wheel right now, I'd go with a MSP. The suspension wheels look great but I'll hold off for V2. 

Good luck with your purchase! :)

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19 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

The 1800Wh Nikola+ has two battery packs and is the preferred battery configuration for most riders when it comes to weight distribution. It feels more agile.
The 1845Wh Nikola+ with 3 battery packs is no longer made by Gotway anyway.
One would have to buy a Nikola from Loomo (AliExpress) to get 3 battery packs and then it would weigh quite a bit but also have crazy range.

The only time I have gotten speed wobbles on a Nikola is because it was new to me and windy.

I weigh 63kg, Monika weighs 62 kg and Petra weighs 57kg.

For Petra, coming from a Tesla she initially felt the Nikola+ was a bit sluggish and cumbersome. Until she hit 56 kmh on it. Then she was all smiles.
Monika seems to be able to carve it around quite easily... the same with the MSX. Maybe there is a difference in our bodyweight distribution. :roflmao:

I prefer the light and small wheel feel of the 16X although it can sometimes feel a bit sketchy at highs speeds.

MSX: 9500km and still original tyre.

Nikola tyre wears out faster at around 3000km. When it wears out put a Chao Yang on it maybe.

Since you are coming from an 18S I would just go for the Nikola+. It is a very stable high speed cruiser. The MSX is definitely more stable though imo. But that much harder to get moving and to get up to speed.

Does price matter? They are a few hundred dollars cheaper from AliExpress.

MSX: $1500
Nik+: $1650

The longest I have trolleyed my MSX is 5 km. Walking with a friend. I have never had any problem with the trolley handle unless I am clumsy.

wow thanks for the feedback Mike.

i was just about to say i switched to wanting a NIkola+ but your ability to trolley an msx 5km  makes me reconsider and think it's not so bad after all and as long as i can get used to the pedal angle, i'll be fine... I hear the MSX now uses the nikola style tire.

price doesn't really matter at those differences.

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19 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

How many miles do you have on your 18S?

Sure I had some dust in my 16X after 7000km but nothing mind blowing. I have been riding in the wet for a few thousand miles as well.
I avoid heavy rain but I have survived moderate rain. One could also use an EUC shower cap. 

I think 1000 miles on the 18s, haven't used it as much lately because my 1680 wh battery became 840wh, which now has become 420 wh, so it takes more effort than im comfortable with getting to even past 25-30kph.

 

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18 hours ago, bigwave said:

The 18XL was the wheel I learned on. The general consensus from a lot of the members here would be a great choice for a first wheel(they were right) and I am very satisfied with it. I have since bought a Nikola Plus 100v 21700 as well. There is quite a difference. The most obvious difference is the size. The Nikola is quite a bit wider and taller. At slower speeds I feel the Nikola is more stable and more nimble. I think the wider tire is the reason.IMO the 2.5 Tire of the 18XL feels a little more lively at faster speeds while the Nikola feels more planted.

  The Nikola requires more effort to get going than the 18XL. I think ,the 18XL with the 2.0FW is just as quick as the Nikola from a start but The Nikola just goes like a rocket once it hits around 20 kph.Top speed is no contest, Nikola .

I find the stability on both excellent with the nod to the 18XL ,maybe. For me, I find the 18XL is easier to ride longer distances, say around 30 km and up. I think I'm more on the balls of my feet more on the Nikola and I get fatigued faster. I have only 300 km on the Nikola compared to the 700km plus I have on the 18XL, so I'm sure I'll get more comfortable as the distance increases . The Nikola is more sensitive to tire pressure and foot positioning than the 18XL. 

The Trolley Handle on the 18XL is excellent. If that is an important feature you need, it is clearly a winner over the Nikola. I find the Nikola handle works pretty good but I really don't use it that much. I use a roll.nz EUC BodyGuard on both.

Since my wife has learned and taken over the 18XL ,I'm riding the Nikola and loving it! I wanted a Nikola from the start but, in hindsight ,the 18XL was the better choice. to learn. I think with your experience you would really enjoy the Nikola.  If I was getting another wheel right now, I'd go with a MSP. The suspension wheels look great but I'll hold off for V2. 

Good luck with your purchase! :)

I appreciate the feedback, can't lose with either!

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3 hours ago, someguy152 said:

wow thanks for the feedback Mike.

i was just about to say i switched to wanting a NIkola+ but your ability to trolley an msx 5km  makes me reconsider and think it's not so bad after all and as long as i can get used to the pedal angle, i'll be fine... I hear the MSX now uses the nikola style tire.

price doesn't really matter at those differences.

I believe it is just the MSP and modifications of it that use the Nikola tire.
The MSX still uses the same old tire. You could probably double check this with the reseller that you end up with.

Here is a clip of my friend David learning to ride an EUC.
I let him walk the 16X and then the MSX.
This will give you a decent idea of how it behaves.

 

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I have a ks18S, fantastic wheel , but easily disregarded. Great to drive seated.

In that aspect, if you ever switch to a Nikola, maybe keep se 18S seat and use it on the Nik! Almost a perfect fit. I made 4 holes in it and use tie-wrap to secure the handle solidly.

 But indeed the nikola is really wide. It's as weirdly wide as the 18S is weirdly high!

The 18xl is wonderful. Boring?? Not sure if I prefer my Nik or the xl..

And lastly, what exactly happened with your batteries?? 

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3 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Here is a clip of my friend David learning to ride an EUC.

How has David progressed since his original lessons with you? Did he get a wheel?

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5 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I believe it is just the MSP and modifications of it that use the Nikola tire.
The MSX still uses the same old tire. You could probably double check this with the reseller that you end up with.

Here is a clip of my friend David learning to ride an EUC.
I let him walk the 16X and then the MSX.
This will give you a decent idea of how it behaves.

 

there aren't a lot of these vids showcasing the trolley handle...i really appreciate it!

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2 hours ago, Eric plam said:

I have a ks18S, fantastic wheel , but easily disregarded. Great to drive seated.

yes it is awesome, the perfect height for my 5ft 2 frame

 

wow good to know about the nikola and the seat.  I thnk i might want the nikola also for the 21700 cells over the 18650 in the 18XL

 

what determines when you choose the 18S to ride vs the XL vs the Nikola vs the V10F vs the Z10.

i have 3 wheels and interchange them as i jerry rigged a foam seat on my 840wh 14s and 16s so even though the 18s is more comfortable, when my legs tire, i just take a squat. 

 

short story with battery:

im pretty sure the problem is i never balanced them because ewheels website makes it seem that the fast charger does miracles by charging to  80% most of the time  and I actually thought it was being balanced at 80% as nowhere on the website says otherwise, but I found out too late that you have to leave at 100% for hours to get them balanced.

Whenever i did charge to 100% which was like 2 or 3times in 500 miles, i basically  took it off the charger when the green light hit right away.

diagnosed the 840wh pack being the culprit, then months later, same thing is happening now with one of my remaining side packs....Now for my other eucs im charging to 100% and leaving it on for hours every 3rd run or so.   A long life battery gradually decreasing in range is better than a faulty battery imo.

 

more info

 

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5 hours ago, someguy152 said:

there aren't a lot of these vids showcasing the trolley handle...i really appreciate it!

This is the best clip that I’ve found to showcase the MSX/MSP trolley issue. Trolleying straight is not that much of an issue, turning is:

 

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8 hours ago, someguy152 said:

there aren't a lot of these vids showcasing the trolley handle...i really appreciate it!

Moar trolley handle this time with a tall rider. 11 minutes in.

 

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