Maintenance Mega Thread!

[nickysneids]

Hi all!

I'm coming up on the ~2,000 mile mark on my MCM5 and I think it's about time to do a serious sweep through of the wheel to make sure everything checks out as it should. I had the idea to do this and create a thread that can be a sort of go to for other members looking to check out their wheels, but it's also to help me understand a few things I'm not sure of.

The goal here is to allocate all of the information associated with wheel maintenance so that it saves everyone lots of time when it's their turn to do the same! Keep in mind that this is a work in progress and will undergo many formatting changes and additions to the info found here. A lot of what you'll find has been taken from info supplied by other people and keep in mind that everything you read is probably not supplied by an expert, although there's bound to be a bunch of info that is!

Tire Replacement/Maintenance

• The Tire/Tyre Sizing Guide! [Pulled from the Tyre Thread made by @Smoother ]

  • Quote

    Most tyres have the actual rim size and width (distance across the tyre from side to side, often wider than the rim) in mm, stamped on the sidewall So:

    • If you want a tyre for your 14" wheel look for a tyre with yy-254 where "yy" equals the width (yy details below) e.g.47-254, 57-254, 64-254, 76-254 and 254 = a 10" rim
    • If you want a tyre for your 16" wheel look for a tyre with yy-305 e.g. 57-305, 64-305, 76-305. 305 = a 12"rim
    • If you want a tyre for your 18" wheel look for a tyre with yy-355 e.g. 64-355, 76-355. 355 = a 14" rim
    • If you want a tyre for your 22" wheel look for a tyre with yy-489 e.g. 64-489, 76-489. 489 = a 19.25"rim (not sure if that exists)

    So in theory even a 17" tyre will display 305 on the sidewall, because the size of the rim hasn't changed.

    The "yy" chart!

    • 47mm = 1.75"
    • 57mm = 2.125"
    • 64mm = 2.5" (actually its 63.5mm but my 2.5" tyre says 64, so I assume they all round up)
    • 76 or 77 = 3"

Additional Tire Resources

• Fixing a "Hop" in your Ride, turning the tire to face the right direction, and verifying the bead is properly seated - Thanks to @ShanesPlanet
• The Tire Slime Guide! - @Marty Backe
• THE Tyre Thread with tons of info on tires courtesy of @Smoother
• The Complete Bike Tire Size Guide also found in the above thread thanks to @Smoother
• Repairing an MSX without replacing the wheel! Entirely in french but some decent info courtesy of @stephen
• Snow Chains?! - @tudordewolf

Cracks in shell, new shell strip placements?

• Link I used for MCM5 disassembly

Battery Testing!

• Some basic troubleshooting steps if you think you may have battery issues or just want to check out how your batteries are doing!
  • If using an app to check our your voltage other settings, make sure the app is set to your wheels proper specs. I made this mistake and its a simple check!
  • Using a multi-meter (linked below), check to make sure your charger is outputting the advertised voltage!
  • Copied from a post below (credit to Chriull & Raging Grandpa)...
    • First check the charger no load voltage. Then the fully loaded battery output voltage (to act as a... control of the voltage measurement on the mainboard). If this is ok it ought to be one of the battery packs.
    • Separate the packs and try to charge them individually - in most cases only one is bad. To do this, unplug and charge up one of the packs. Then test. Do the same for the other! Replace the bad one with a new one - and ensure they have as good as the same voltage when reconnecting!
    • If one is experienced enough one can replace the bad cells of the bad one instead of getting a new one. But since one most presumably has no possibility to do proper cell matching this repaired pack will not last as long. But it will be much cheaper... (see the link on testing out different cells below for more info)
• Description of BMS & Battery relationships
  • "It's slightly more complicated: your BMS ("Battery Management System," a circuitboard contained in the pack) is detecting that some cells are 'full' and is stopping the charging event. When this happens, the indicator light on your charger will go 'green' - but the pack voltage never got near 84V." - RagingGrandpa
• How to replace a battery pack!
  • "(Pack replacement)..It's quite simple- the pack is a module that can be unplugged from the EUC. Plug in new pack, close up the plastics, done" - RagingGrandpa
• Testing out difference cells...
  • "If this is all brand-new to you, I don't recommend doing it... save yourself a few skin burns. But to answer your question: we suspect you have some cells at 0V. To confirm it, you would need to measure the voltage of each cell... but in all cases, pack replacement is the answer." - RagingGrandpa
  • A thread that goes into much more depth or testing different cells
• Supplies needed/Voltage Tester
  • Etekcity MSR-R500 Multi-meter recommend as an entry level and budget friendly option by RagingGrandpa
  • Flukes Digital Multi-meters recommended by a (mechanic?) as a higher end very reliable option - ShanesPlanet
  • This thread goes into the dos and don'ts of using multi-meters! -Chriull
• Where to sell old battery cells/any other old or damaged parts?
  • "Or better yet, leave it alone and sell the whole damaged pack "for parts" in our classifieds here." - RagingGrandpa

Water Proofing

• Spraying dielectric spray on charging port, USB ports, power button and, if one is so inclined to do so, connectors/electronics inside the wheel - @travsformation
  • Recommended Dielectric Spray - Thanks to @travsformation
• Supplies [Thinking something similar to the Badger Kit for the OneWheel?]
• Guide

Pedal Replacement?

• Grip Tape Replacement?

What else?

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by nickysneids

[RagingGrandpa]

10 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

My MCM5 should read out at 84.2v but at full charge is reading out at 64v which is no bueno and almost seems like I'm missing an entire battery.

Pack replacement is the only practical option.
More info here.

[nickysneids]

8 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Pack replacement is the only practical option.
More info here.

I'll read through this, thanks! So in the event that nothing has been disconnected, the idea is that I have to replace the entire pack and shouldn't spend time checking out each of the different cells?

[RagingGrandpa]

1 minute ago, nickysneids said:

So in the event that nothing has been disconnected, the idea is that I have to replace the entire pack and shouldn't spend time checking out each of the different cells?

Correct.

Always a good idea to inspect for physical damage and wear... but there is no disconnection (in the EUC wiring) that would cause the pack to successfully charge but only to a reduced voltage.

You'll need to damage the pack enclosure to probe the cells- a good learning experience (outdoors! with goggles!) but don't expect to actually salvage anything.

[nickysneids]

1 minute ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Correct.

Always a good idea to inspect for physical damage and wear... but there is no disconnection (in the EUC wiring) that would cause the pack to successfully charge but only to a reduced voltage.

You'll need to damage the pack enclosure to probe the cells- a good learning experience (outdoors! with goggles!) but don't expect to actually salvage anything.

Thanks for the great info right off the bat! I have a few questions (if you don't mind me asking you):

1. So to clarify further, the fact that I can fully charge to ~90% but don't get full voltage means that one of the cells within the pack has failed? Just trying to understand what happened a bit further.
2. Do you have any resources on how to safely and properly go about changing the entire battery pack?
3. And lastly, if I were to probe the cells, what equipment would I need to purchase, and what exactly am I testing for?
   1. For example, if I'm testing the voltage of the individual cells in the pack how can I figure out what the voltage of that cell is actually supposed to be reading out at?

[Chriull]

36 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

My MCM5 should read out at 84.2v

84V. The charger should rovide a little more to overcome the voltage drop of the protection circuitry.

But do not expect the reported voltage to be overly accurate - +/-1.5V are not seldomly reported...

Quote

but at full charge is reading out at 64v which is no bueno and almost seems like I'm missing an entire battery.

As reported by the wheel to an app?

Is the app set to 84V? GW natively report voltages as they were 67.2V wheels and the app has to apply a correction factor. Wheellog/EUC World and Darknessbot offer an imho manual option to set this.

... But would be still a too low value.

Quote

I'll be posting more when I find info on how to properly test for the bad battery/missing connection when I find it.

There's another option - bad charger not delivering enough (max) voltage.

Quote

But I have little experience with measure voltage so any help in this area is greatly appreciated!

Firat check the charger no load voltage. Then the fully loaded battery output volage (control of the voltage measurement on the mainboard)

If this is ok it ought to be one of the battery packs.

Separete them and try to charge them individually - in most cases only one is bad.

Replace the bad one with a new one - and _ensure_ they have as good ad the same voltage when reconnecting!

If one is experienced enough one can replace the bad cells of the bad one instead of getting a new one. But since one most presumably has no possibility to do proper cell matching this repaired pack will not last as long. But it will be much cheaper...

Quote

Also, if this should be better suited for a different Sub Forum I hope a mod would be so kind as to please move it for me!

Seems fine!

Maybe about time to think about an own maintenance subforum?

[RagingGrandpa]

2 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

the fact that I can fully charge to ~90% but don't get full voltage means that one of the cells within the pack has failed

Basically yes.

It's slightly more complicated: your BMS ("Battery Management System," a circuitboard contained in the pack) is detecting that some cells are 'full' and is stopping the charging event. When this happens, the indicator light on your charger will go 'green' - but the pack voltage never got near 84V.
 

4 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

Do you have any resources on how to safely and properly go about changing the entire battery pack?

It's quite simple- the pack is a module that can be unplugged from the EUC. Plug in new pack, close up the plastics, done.

MCM5 teardown videos will help you with the mechanical disassembly. The electrical part is the easy part.
 

6 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

if I were to probe the cells, what equipment would I need to purchase, and what exactly am I testing for?

If this is all brand-new to you, I don't recommend doing it... save yourself a few skin burns.

But to answer your question: we suspect you have some cells at 0V. To confirm it, you would need to measure the voltage of each cell, and we suspect you'd find something like this:

The only point of doing this measurement is to confirm where the problem is, for personal satisfaction.
It doesn't really make a difference in your course of action though- the problem is certainly inside the pack, and there are no user-serviceable parts there.
The actual problem could be (most commonly) some bad cells; or a damaged BMS; or unexpected short circuits... but in all cases, pack replacement is the answer.

Or better yet, leave it alone and sell the whole damaged pack "for parts" in our classifieds here.

[nickysneids]

7 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Is the app set to 84V? GW natively report voltages as they were 67.2V wheels and the app has to apply a correction factor. Wheellog/EUC World and Darknessbot offer an imho manual option to set this.
-

Firat check the charger no load voltage. Then the fully loaded battery output volage (control of the voltage measurement on the mainboard)

If this is ok it ought to be one of the battery packs.

Separete them and try to charge them individually - in most cases only one is bad.

Replace the bad one with a new one - and _ensure_ they have as good ad the same voltage when reconnecting!

If one is experienced enough one can replace the bad cells of the bad one instead of getting a new one. But since one most presumably has no possibility to do proper cell matching this repaired pack will not last as long. But it will be much cheaper...

Seems fine!

Maybe about time to think about an own maintenance subforum?

Awesome info as always Chriull! Thanks for the great response. I totally missed the whole app readout option. I had it set properly but it seems that Darkness bot just decided to change it to 67v on me and I assumed the worst.

For the sake of more information in the thread, how would I go about checking the charger no load voltage, and how would I charge each of the battery packs individually?

[RagingGrandpa]

35 minutes ago, Chriull said:

it ought to be one of the battery packs.

Separete them and try to charge them individually - in most cases only one is bad.

Does MCM5 have 2 packs? Depends on the variant perhaps... but yes, open the wheel, and if you discover 2 separate (blue) battery packs present, unplug one then retry charging as Chriull recommended.
 

35 minutes ago, Chriull said:

First check the charger no load voltage.

Yes!

It's simple to rule out most failures of the charger: power up the charger and probe its output connector using a voltmeter to verify ~84.2 V is present.

(But I suspect it's fine...)

Edited May 5, 2020 by RagingGrandpa

[nickysneids]

13 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Basically yes.

It's slightly more complicated: your BMS ("Battery Management System," a circuitboard contained in the pack) is detecting that some cells are 'full' and is stopping the charging event. When this happens, the indicator light on your charger will go 'green' - but the pack voltage never got near 84V.

-

(Pack replacement)..It's quite simple- the pack is a module that can be unplugged from the EUC. Plug in new pack, close up the plastics, done

-

If this is all brand-new to you, I don't recommend doing it... save yourself a few skin burns.

But to answer your question: we suspect you have some cells at 0V. To confirm it, you would need to measure the voltage of each cell... but in all cases, pack replacement is the answer.

-

Or better yet, leave it alone and sell the whole damaged pack "for parts" in our classifieds here.

All great info, thanks for taking the time to explain it all! I'll add all of your info into the main topic post of this thread so it can be easily referenced.

Can you recommend a solid voltage reader (or just saw you call this a voltmeter) to measure the voltage of each cell so I can link it in the main thread post?

Edited May 5, 2020 by nickysneids

[RagingGrandpa]

7 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

Can you recommend a solid voltage reader

For basic troubleshooting a cheap DMM is fine, such as: https://smile.amazon.com/Etekcity-Multimeter-MSR-R500-Electronic-Multimeters/dp/B01N9QW620/

If you've never used one before, teach yourself in a quick experiment by measuring the voltage of a AA battery, following the instructions here. If the result is about 1.5 V, you did it right

[.....]

31 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

All great info, thanks for taking the time to explain it all! I'll add all of your info into the main topic post of this thread so it can be easily referenced.

Can you recommend a solid voltage reader (or just saw you call this a voltmeter) to measure the voltage of each cell so I can link it in the main thread post?

Handheld Fluke multimeter. I have one that is about 20 years old and got ran over by cars regularly. Buy once, cry once, as its a tool you will use for many things for many years.

Edited May 5, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[nickysneids]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Handheld Fluke multimeter. I have one that is about 20 years old and got ran over by cars regularly. Buy once, cry once, as its a tool you will use for many things for many years.

I'll add in a high end option as well, what model have you been using?

[RagingGrandpa]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Handheld Fluke multimeter. I have one that is about 20 years old and got ran over by cars regularly. Buy once, cry once, as its a tool you will use for many things for many years.

Sure... but I gotta believe you've got a chinesium Harbor Freight freebie kicking around the trunk of a car somewhere

(guilty)

[.....]

 

22 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

I'll add in a high end option as well, what model have you been using?

 

Its not really a high end option, but its not cheap crap. This one is my beater meter(only on my 2nd set of leads too!). It has to be in a case as its so old it falls apart now. Still works, but i was thinking of replacing it. This one lived thru an auto shop environment for decades and still works. Yes its been dropped in vats of oil and buckets of antifreeze too!  Its one of the lesser models but still quality. A LOT of the newer ones have MANY more features, but honestly, this one made our shop thousand and thousands of dollars. SO far Ive blown 3 fuses in it in decades of use. I also have a few of those cheapie meters laying around and also an analog with needle cheapie to watch swing. I also have tabletop equip and o-scopes. In the end, you can surely get by on some total cheap bullshit. Hell, buy a cheap one anyhow, as having a cheapie AND a solid piece of kit, is normal for this kind of thing.  @RagingGrandpa haha, dont we all have some of those junk mysterious meters around. I just loooked and I cant find any, but i know there here somewhere. Probably melted under a hood or something. I FREAKING HATE those cheapies, but somehow find them like pennies. I think they pop up for free from people that want to 'pay' me for my time. haha

Edited May 5, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Chriull]

And then there is topic started from @esaj(don't remember how to search for it...) telling to never short the battery packs output with the measuring tips. Or trying to measure the voltage while the dmm accidently was left in current measurement mode...

Gives nasty little flying drops of molten metal....

Edit: use goggles! Molten metal drops and eyes don't combine very good...

Edited May 5, 2020 by Chriull

[.....]

10 minutes ago, Chriull said:

And then there is topic started from @esaj(don't remember how to search for it...) telling to never short the battery packs output with the measuring tips. Or trying to measure the voltage while the dmm accidently was left in current measurement mode...

Gives nasty little flying drops of molten metal....

Forgetting to change from current to voltage posts on the meters is why ive had to replace 3 fuses and have a spare. Fat fuse too, wasnt too cheap. IIRC, my meter had to be glued back together after last fiasco, so she's on her LAST 9v battery and fuse. Damn, now i remember, i'll have to buy ONE MORE meter to replace it (ill cry a little im sure, as she's been my friend thru thick and thin) and the next will probably outlive me, especially now that I dont have a manly job like I did. Dont underestimate how nice it is to have quality test leads. But hell, Im spoiled. Fwiw, battery op multimeters tend to be easier than wall powered, as you havent fear a short to ground no matter HOW you use it. Cheap ones don't tend to fair water or chems worth shit.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[nickysneids]

14 minutes ago, Chriull said:

And then there is topic started from @esaj(don't remember how to search for it...) telling to never short the battery packs output with the measuring tips. Or trying to measure the voltage while the dmm accidently was left in current measurement mode...

Gives nasty little flying drops of molten metal....

I didn't touch upon this before... I think a maintenance sub-forum would be great but it's probably not reasonable to do so right now. I would say give this thread a chance to grow and decide based on the amount of information we gather here whether or not it warrants it's own sub-forum. I'd like to see this become good enough to at the least just be stickied in a good spot so everyone can easily access it all! One thing that seems to be presenting itself is that there's tons and tons of information on batteries and it's spread out (like a lot of info on this forum) all over the place. Having it all live in one place will be massively helpful for everyone looking to get educated so in the future this mega thread may need to just be linked to a separate thread that focuses just on battery maintenance and education.

Edited May 5, 2020 by nickysneids

[.....]

when we put everythng in one place, you wind up with a 600 pages video thread. Good idea to organize all of this, but i bet it wold be a total nightmare of work to make it stay that way. I am so damn guilty of derails and rambling. You get a few people like me on here and we sadly undermine the efforts tho with best of intentions. I'm all for it and will bow out of this for now, as I'm not really helping keep it pertinent and organized already.

Edited May 5, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Chriull]

4 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

I didn't touch upon this before... I think a maintenance sub-forum would be great but it's probably not reasonable to do so right now. I would say give this thread a chance to grow and decide based on the amount of information we gather here whether or not it warrants it's own sub-forum. I'd like to see this become good enough to at the least just be stickied in a good spot so everyone can easily access it all! One thing that seems to be presenting itself is that there's tons and tons of information on batteries and it's spread out (like a lot of info on this forum) all over the place. Having it all live in one place will be massively helpful for everyone looking to get educated so in the future this mega thread may need to just be linked to a separate thread that focuses just on battery maintenance and education.

"General Discussion" has already three sticky topics. That's about our limit - no inflation on "important topics".

But "diy, repairs and mods" should fit, too?

And there is no sticky topic till now.

I'll give you without hesitation a sticky topic for your work and effort that will go into this project!

And if you restart there do not forget to reserve yourself a couple of posts after your first one (hidden for now) in case you'll need some structuring!

 

[nickysneids]

3 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

when we put everythng in one place, you wind up with a 600 pages video thread. Good idea to organize all of this, but i bet it wold be a total nightmare of work to make it stay that way. I am so damn guilty of derails and rambling. You get a few people like me on here and we sadly undermine the efforts tho with best of intentions. I'm all for it and will bow out of this for now, as I'm not really helping keep it pertinent and organized already.

No your point is well taken. The information gets lost in the conversations that occur in the comments but the idea here is that the information gets allocated to the main post therefore one doesn't have to rummage through pages of comments. I would love to have this thread to a point where there's no need for comments, and in order to keep people on the right track we could just disable them all together. But for now they serve a great purpose and I'll do my best to keep allocating incoming information up top for people to easily find!

[Chriull]

1 minute ago, Chriull said:

I'll give you without hesitation a sticky topic for your work and effort that will go into this project!

Beside of this i/we can move derailers posts like 

 

7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

. I am so damn guilty of derails and rambling.

to some discussion about your topic topic.

[nickysneids]

4 minutes ago, Chriull said:

"General Discussion" has already three sticky topics. That's about our limit - no inflation on "important topics".

But "diy, repairs and mods" should fit, too?

And there is no sticky topic till now.

I'll give you without hesitation a sticky topic for your work and effort that will go into this project!

And if you restart there do not forget to reserve yourself a couple of posts after your first one (hidden for now) in case you'll need some structuring!

Cheers to that mate. I was originally going to post there but I figured it was relevant enough to go into Gen Discussion and it would gain more traction and faster input of information here. When we get to a good point with it I'll contact you about moving it to be stickied in the "diy, repairs, and mods" forum.

Edited May 5, 2020 by nickysneids

[Chriull]

13 minutes ago, nickysneids said:

I'll contact you about moving it to be stickied in the "diy, repairs, and mods" forum

Reconsider a new start - you'll get the chance to reserve yourself some post (hidden in the begining) so you have a chance for some structuring ot your work. If i move your topic you'll just  have one first post which could get very very very very very very long...

Edit: splitting the discussion off of your initial post is of course a possibility, too ...

Edited May 5, 2020 by Chriull

[travsformation]

Wow, excellent idea for a thread, @nickysneids! Very comprehensive, thanks for taking the time to compile this!

For now, the only additions I can think are:

Tires:

• Sliming one's tires: Guide by Marty

Waterproofing:

• Spraying dielectric spray on charging port, USB ports, power button and, if one is so inclined to do so, connectors/electronics inside the wheel

Edited May 11, 2020 by travsformation