How many KM/Miles before you arent a rookie?

[.....]

I know its a person by person basis. I also know that we progress at much different rates. Also, mileage isnt much an indication of talent. I guess what I'm wondering is...

At what point did you finally feel confident in calling yourself anything other than a horrible newbie?

Subjective as it may be, I'm just curious. I've never ridden with another euc and most of these youtube videos are FULL of people doing some VERY NOT beginner riding. I still call myself a total newbie and no good on the wheel, but am looking forward to the day I can legitimately claim "I'm decent". Will it take 3 years, 3000miles and 2 wheels to finally get out of the lowest ranks? Perhaps its a totally loaded question? I dont care, Im always a sucker for a good opinion based debate.  What yall think? When do you consider someone properly versed in the euc realm? At what point in your euc glide life, did you feel confident in claiming you were no longer a total rookie? Yes i know, who gives a fu** about titles and what other people think, spare me that or this wont be any fun to discuss.

Edited May 4, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[rolekl]

My thought is that we're talking about many small steps. I've ridden about 600km / 400 mi so far, mainly on my Nikola. I reckon I've taken the first step up the ladder now. I've greatly improved my miserable sense of balance, I'm not afraid to fall off at any moment in time any more. I can travel at a reasonable speed and can take smaller bumps and potholes without sh*tting myself. So for me it was about 400 miles to get one small step up the ladder. More steps to follow...

[Unventor]

Now it is a pretty hard question to answer. Let me give you an example. I had about 400km on a V8, and around 2600km on my KS18L, but when I got my KS16X I were ohh holy...This feels like an untamed horse. It goes in any direction it like (following lines on the surface) and I am constant either leaning it against a leg if the tire is a knife edge (V). despite looking like a U-shape tire. So, it took me the better of 300km to not be uncomfortable how it feels. 

Now a month or so I hit some cracks in asphalt from tree roots. This is where I can now say my subconscious reaction got me through. If you didn't throw in the KS16X then this happened around 2500km totally on my wheels, but the KS16X made me a better rider and it still keeps me on the edge. Like last Monday it slid about 1' sideway during a 90 degree turn on wet asphalt. and again, a little later for like 1/2'. How I managed to stay on the wheel I cannot tell you, but again my body reaction must have saved me. 

And still I fell flat trying to go over a curb like 2" high due to the KS16X tire followed a cobble stone ridge just as I were about to hit the curb at 0 momentum. Wheel stopped, I did not.

Now I knew it was hard to do but I challenged myself. The same think when I went exploring off road and got lost on a mountain side (as the tail had ended) in a forest not that far from me. (I have a poor sense of direction, until I have been lost). Point is I would not have challenged myself this hard in my early days. Now the 1000+ km mark on the KS16x is coming up, and nearly 3000km on my KS18L and almost 400km on my V10f. 

But I can't step up with both legs equally controlled. Nor can I do reverse riding...yet. Seated riding...nope but I got a seat now for KS16x so maybe this summer. The reason why I find all of these things hard is my knees are poor. When I started about 2 years ago, I couldn't stand on one leg putting on a sock or shoe. So, training these things are pretty hard to me. had it been 25 years ago, I am sure I would have mastered it by now.

The question is what happens when I get my V11. We don't yet have any indication how it will behave. 

You tell me how rookie or novice I am... because I am not a pro. I don't get paid to ride.

BUT I enjoy riding, and I enjoy challenging myself on off road despite I don't do it as often as I like. main reason I know my knees pay the week after. I have high hopes the V11 can take me a step further, and no I don't think range wise. 

[DjPanJan]

I be short. I was think i am good rider around 200km after 700km i lost respect. In 1300Km i have hard crash caused pure by my stupidity and no respect acting/riding.

Now after 2000 km i think im newbie again and i keep learning  EUC slowly and CAREFULY. 

#nomorerehabilitation 🦴

[RockyTop]

  You ask a good question and get a bunch of non answers. 
(In America ..... and maybe Germany) 
You are no longer a rookie when you can sneak up on one of those uptight cyclists with the funny looking spandex suites and pick pocket their Starbucks coffee card out of their overly tight pockets while traveling at speed ...................   At least that is my standard.  

I get a lot of free coffee. 

[null]

I would have said "when you feel confortable" but then you could also just be reckless

[RetroThruster]

5 hours ago, RockyTop said:

  You ask a good question and get a bunch of non answers. 
(In America ..... and maybe Germany) 
You are no longer a rookie when you can sneak up on one of those uptight cyclists with the funny looking spandex suites and pick pocket their Starbucks coffee card out of their overly tight pockets while traveling at speed ...................   At least that is my standard.  

I get a lot of free coffee. 

So it was you

[GothamMike]

200 KM in USA, 60KM  on Saturday. Wave to everyone, say hello, especially to Children.. Observe people smiling.

I was riding in a wealthy NYC suburban village this morning. A woman says "That is the coolest thing on the road" This town has Tesla, Lamborghini, and Maserati dealerships!

#Winning!

[RayBanMonster]

For me it was about being able to do Five  things:

1. Turn on penny at whim.

2. Navigate the road,  not the path, with traffic and confidence e.g. stop and start as well as high speed cruising.

3. Once I obtained all the protective gear.

4. The biggest factor of all. Recognising not just intellectually but in my gut that  the top speed and acceleration ("leaning" if you're a newbie) is a moving target &  is utterly dependant upon residual voltage. (When I first got my Nikola Plus, I marvelled at the Voltage meter without a second thought WHY? )lol

5. The worst thing you should do to accelerate, especially on a Gotway is to LEAN... dont do that!... [instead shift your weight forward to make that machine do exactly what you want with care... it will listen if you force it forward with just your feet...   Else if the $58!7 hits the Fan it'll tilt forward re a lack of balancing power & the beginning of the end is past, & you've time to reflect on the mistake and find a solution, "

"....oh its over....  cant rescue this tilt into a braking situ because I over-leaned, .... (such is your speed of thought in that moment) by the time you hit the ground you've worked out your mistake and just hope any injury isn't going to be permanent)...   Wait... SHRRRUMMPPPPHHHH  RRROOOOLLLL  There...face-plant complete with road rash.. on the Nikola Plus at low Batt when I was already doing 30...  oh and all NON-motorcycle-tested-clothing is shredded. ALL OF IT!

 So, feet positioning: I achieve the same results simply shifting weight and foot positioning at the feet. Ive now noticed I can switch the exact opposite stance on a whim without even moving my feet.

 

My favourite thing on any wheel?  Accelerate almost as if on tip toes whilst you mostly positioned on the outer forward edges of the wheel. That is such a beautiful balancing feeling.  ... let the road and the wheel sort the rest out... to do this though you must stay very equally balanced.

In hard mode under acceleration this theory early on tossed me right out of the unit into a busy road in a town. not nice experience.. was winded for 2 mins & couldn't move in the road.

Love riding EUCs... simply nothing thrills   like it when you're cruising a bend overtaking a car already doing 30 on an MSX looking like a Comic Superhero... 

"...WTF was that?    Oh its one of those  Electric Wheel things.. whoo ! "" 

Edited May 4, 2020 by RayBanMonster

[Justin Boivin]

Personally, I would say when you have the skills to ride well with whatever the road/situation brings. Can you:
-Do a hard break if you have to?
-Turn sharply?
-Drop off curbs unexpected bumps and keep rolling?
-Quickly react and avoid things in your path?
-Mount/dismount quickly, with ease?
-Adjust to different conditions (rain etc)?
-Ride on different kinds of terrain?
-Stop wobbles?
-Never lose control of the wheel, or if you do, recover quickly?

And if you want to consider yourself "among the best", I think you'd have to learn all the tricks and gimicks (riding backwards, on one leg etc etc).

 

[Scottie]

U-Stride did a video that talked a bit about this and how the skill levels are demonstrated by riding styles.

Of course, as @ShanesPlanet says, this is a very subjective definition. I find myself agreeing with @Justin Boivin and he seems to parallel U-Strides descriptions based on his list above.

IMHO, the general categories of beginner, intermediate, and advanced rider would also have subcategories. Based on the general consensus of these two people's descriptions, I think I would classify myself as an advanced beginner. I can navigate precisely and smoothly on hard surfaces, and can ride all over my town with few worries, while staying well clear of automobile traffic. I'm still working on getting excellent control on grassy, gravel, bumpy surfaces. I believe I meet all of Justin's criteria except what is shown in red below. I cannot always recover when I lose control, so the wheel goes down, ...usually I stay on my feet. 

-Do a hard break if you have to?
-Turn sharply?
-Drop off curbs unexpected bumps and keep rolling?
-Quickly react and avoid things in your path?
-Mount/dismount quickly, with ease?
-Adjust to different conditions (rain etc)?
-Ride on different kinds of terrain?
-Stop wobbles?
-Never lose control of the wheel, or if you do, recover quickly?

I believe I watched a U-Stride video a couple of months ago where he described himself as an intermediate rider. I believe high speed riding falls into the intermediate rider definition. I may never make it into the intermediate ranks; but will be happy to be a highly skilled beginner. There is a chance I might become one of the lowest skilled intermediate riders.   

 

[mrelwood]

You aren’t a rookie when:

- Your riding skills sufficiently serve the purpose you have for using the wheel.

- Your lack of skills is not a danger to yourself and others you may encounter, even in surprising situations. Fast braking and obstacle avoidance skills are required.

- You have the comprehension to avoid speeds and situations where your lack of skills can be a danger to yourself or other people.

 

 For example, having ridden past 23 000 km I don’t think many would consider me a rookie. But I am only now learning to reverse, and when reversing I definitely am a rookie.

[.....]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

You aren’t a rookie when:

- Your riding skills sufficiently serve the purpose you have for using the wheel.

- Your lack of skills is not a danger to yourself and others you may encounter, even in surprising situations. Fast braking and obstacle avoidance skills are required.

- You have the comprehension to avoid speeds and situations where your lack of skills can be a danger to yourself or other people.

 

 For example, having ridden past 23 000 km I don’t think many would consider me a rookie. But I am only now learning to reverse, and when reversing I definitely am a rookie.

Wow, thats some serious mileage. I couldnt fathom so many and never just itching to go backwards too. Good points all around, I'm just genuinely surprised. So interesting to hear about everyone's personal habits and preferences.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Planemo]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

You aren’t a rookie when:

- Your riding skills sufficiently serve the purpose you have for using the wheel.

I think this is the crucial point.

I generally ride at speed, and to do so safely requires continual skill improvements. As I'm still learning to do this safely (and bringing my speed up slowly, expanding my carving skills, practising hard braking - good for hazard avoidance etc) every ride is, to me, a valuable learning experience. But for someone who does gentle rides at 15~20mph in open areas I guess I would be 'over qualified' and tbh I could ride a wheel all day in such situations half asleep. So I am definitely no 'rookie' in one sense but I absolutely consider myself 'still learning' in another.

[mrelwood]

 

31 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I couldnt fathom so many and never just itching to go backwards too.

I just never figured out a purpose for it. I much rather practiced off-road obstacles and cliffs, checked out new places and searched for new forest paths etc. In turn for example U-Stride not riding off-road is incomprehensible to me!

I'd imagine doing a wheelie on a bicycle could be seen in similiar aspect: Completely unneccessary for Tour dé France, yet rudimentary for BMX.

[Planemo]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I just never figured out a purpose for it.

Same here, compounded by the fact that my riding time is so limited that I have to practice on things I need rather than what I fancy having a go at. I think being able to go backwards is a handy skill though because it could be seen as part and parcel of doing pendulums which could be seen as a beneficial skill to all riders, allowing you to pause without dismounting/mounting. Many a time I have had to stop at a road crossing for only a second or so to allow a car to pass and it just messes up the flow having to faff about with a full stop/foot down/foot up/get foot to correct position etc but that's just one example.

I'm not a fan of 'technical' off road at all. I don't mind a nice off-road gravel or canal path but when things start getting knarly I just think an EUC isn't the right 'tool' for the job and I would simply prefer to use my MTB. Kudos to those that do though, I can see the attraction of a challenge and there's no doubt that it improves the riders overall wheel skills. If you can throw an EUC around at speed on nasty off road sections you can be sure to be a good rider on asphalt too  

[null]

26 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

I just never figured out a purpose for it. I much rather practiced off-road obstacles and cliffs, checked out new places and searched for new forest paths etc. In turn for example U-Stride not riding off-road is incomprehensible to me!

I'd imagine doing a wheelie on a bicycle could be seen in similiar aspect: Completely unneccessary for Tour dé France, yet rudimentary for BMX.

It possibly have some use as « general control of the wheel » to avoid accidents or simplify things. Possibly for ballance (good to know different ways) but also retract from a situation which would otherwise require stepping down or turning. Not saying it’s some crucial skill but probably any different way of staying on the wheel can have its use in terms of muscle memory.

Edited May 6, 2020 by null

[.....]

Good stuff guys! I'm really new, but I just love ALL of it. Street at speed to get somewhere, Rocky mountain roads at speed that keeps me pumped and scared sh**less. Putting in the yard doing dumb crap. Finding a smooth lot to carve and jump parking blocks and curbs. I figured that idling was a common skill that everyone (except me) could do. Idling (pendulum) on the mten is pretty easy, being able to do that on the 18L would thrill me to no end. Getting on and off ruins the flow for sure.  It seems that some people approach an euc with a certain intent, and spend their time getting REALLY good at it. Then there's others that get an euc with no idea what they intend, and they do all of it. IN the end, it sounds to me like everyone enjoys it, gets better at what they want, and thats simply that! Keep em coming tho, lovin' the responses and viewpoints.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Espen R]

33 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I just never figured out a purpose for it. I much rather practiced off-road obstacles and cliffs, checked out new places and searched for new forest paths etc. In turn for example U-Stride not riding off-road is incomprehensible to me!

I'd imagine doing a wheelie on a bicycle could be seen in similiar aspect: Completely unneccessary for Tour dé France, yet rudimentary for BMX.

Couldn’t agree more. I can’t say I’ve ever been in a situation where I felt the need to ride backwards.

I’ve got little over 5000km, but I still feel like a rookie, and I hope that feeling never goes away. After about 2000km, I probably felt less like a rookie than what I do now. Off-road riding is very physically demanding, and the techniques you need to ride smoothly and swiftly over bumpy terrain requires a lot of muscle and stamina, which takes time to develop.

I’ve followed the same path as I have done with other sports that demanded a lot of strength. Started at my normal weight, a little under 100kg, but with muscle build up comes appetite, so I gained about 18kg in the first few months, and I kept that weight for little over a year before it slowly began to decline. Now I’m at the point where the build up is complete, so the appetite is reduced and I’m losing weight fairly fast. I’ll probably be back to two digits on the weight scale by the end of the year. I can withstand the forces and keep the wheel planted to the ground with the muscle gain, and with the weight reduction comes stamina, so I’ll soon need a new wheel with more range, because the 18XL can only give me 1-1.5 hours of hard off-road riding.

The MSP or the MSS with the larger battery pack could’ve been the natural choice, but I’m not sure about the width, it looks a bit clumsy to me. I want more power and range, so 20” seems like a logical progression to accomplish that without widening the body, so I’m eagerly waiting for the new GW wheel, but a 3.00 wide 20” wheel would be closer to raping a bear with brute force than the agile trail dancing I can do with the 18XL:)      

[mrelwood]

24 minutes ago, Espen R said:

20” wheel would be closer to raping a bear with brute force than the agile trail dancing I can do with the 18XL:)     

Can’t... stop... laughing...! 

[Rehab1]

Using a check list to record your riding skills as you become more adroit maneuvering an EUC is a great idea but for some rookies there is no gray area 

 

[Scottie]

On 5/4/2020 at 3:46 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

When do you consider someone properly versed in the euc realm? At what point in your euc glide life, did you feel confident in claiming you were no longer a total rookie? Yes i know, who gives a fu** about titles and what other people think, spare me that or this wont be any fun to discuss.

Keying in @ShanesPlanet original two core questions; from the many responses, people here have expressed that they will always be more skills to develop. So, we will almost never be able to say we are properly versed in the EUC realm. But then we need to define "properly versed". We can pick that apart for a while!

As far as the 2nd question, I think when I was able to safely get myself out-and-about around town, which requires meeting most of Justin's physical skill criteria, then I'm not a "total rookie". I would also add hazard recognition and planning skills to mitigate the hazard situation to be able to stay within our physical skill level.

-Do a hard break if you have to?
-Turn sharply?
-Drop off curbs unexpected bumps and keep rolling?
-Quickly react and avoid things in your path?
-Mount/dismount quickly, with ease?
-Adjust to different conditions (rain etc)?
-Ride on different kinds of terrain?
-Stop wobbles?
-Never lose control of the wheel, or if you do, recover quickly?

This is in agreement with @mrelwood.

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

You aren’t a rookie when:

- Your riding skills sufficiently serve the purpose you have for using the wheel.

- Your lack of skills is not a danger to yourself and others you may encounter, even in surprising situations. Fast braking and obstacle avoidance skills are required.

- You have the comprehension to avoid speeds and situations where your lack of skills can be a danger to yourself or other people.

 

 For example, having ridden past 23 000 km I don’t think many would consider me a rookie. But I am only now learning to reverse, and when reversing I definitely am a rookie.

 

 

From what I've gleaned from the comments, the "total rookie" stage passes fairly quickly for most. What is left is being a rookie at various aspects or skills. @ShanesPlanet   summarizes it well.

2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It seems that some people approach an euc with a certain intent, and spend their time getting REALLY good at it. Then there's others that get an euc with no idea what they intend, and they do all of it. IN the end, it sounds to me like everyone enjoys it, gets better at what they want, and thats simply that!

 

[travsformation]

@ShanesPlanet, it's measured in face-plants averted, not in miles 

Not long after deciding I was no longer a rookie I found out (through a couple of close calls) that I'd entered my over-confidence phase, which was a humbling feeling. When I regained my confidence, improved my skills and decided I was finally an experienced rider, I discovered that was in fact the second over-confidence phase 

Now, whenever I think of myself as a pro (hyperbole alert), I put on a video of Chooch, Kuji or any of the NYC riders, which brings me back down to earth.

I think forever considering one's self as a rookie is the safest and best approach 

 

 

[Pingouin]

Hello

I get the feeling that what makes EUC riding great, is that you can always learn ! I'm always admire NYC riders who can slalom through traffic at incredible speeds, or some freestyle riders being able to turn their EUC 360° and juming back on it, or some riders like Marty being able to ride on moutain trails !

EUCs improve every year, with now suspensions coming, and also +70kph speeds, I think no EUC rider is really prepared even the most experienced ones, and each year even if they think they've reach the bonderies of peformances, they get pushed even further.

I myself have around 30 000km (18 600 miles) on multiple EUCs, and each EUC is different like some riders said above, you have to adjust to a new EUC. Riding every day is an every day joy, and you learn every day about traffic challenge, or some puthole that scares you on the road.  I don't consider myself to me a perfect beginner but I would never include myself as a "pro" rider, just a casual rider who loves to ride.

I really believe we always stay a "rookie" when we ride EUCs, we just have different levels of rookies and its what makes EUC riding so incredible

Edited May 7, 2020 by Pingouin

[alcatraz]

There is nothing great about thinking you're less of a "rookie" or good. It just lets your guard down more.