Jump to content
Shabba

Why does this keep happening

Recommended Posts

I keep frying my connectors and I don’t know why, this is as far as I get and as soon as I connect the right battery to the splitter it fries it, there’s nothing connected on the other side, am replacing the shell and that’s the reason I have everything apart. Everything was working fine with the old shell, CAN SOMEONE HELP ME PLEASE, I WANNA RIDE!

E6E7A561-1C2A-49EA-B1D1-96A62318706E.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yeah: it's normal to see some arcing when plugging the battery pack to the mainboard, as the mainboard's capacitors put a momentary high draw on the pack, which is why the connector should be put together firmly and quickly, but if you're actually damaging the connector I'd take a close look at the situation before attempting to re-connect.  Reverse polarity seems unlikely unless something got re-soldered or re-wired somehow, given that the connectors are keyed and can't be plugged together the wrong way around.  Not very likely in this situation, but do check with an ohmmeter if the splitter cable has any shorts.  If it did, though, the first pack would already be shorting and getting angry when plugged in, so I don't think that's it.

More likely is a large voltage differential.  Voltmeter time, to see first if the two packs are at the same (or very nearly the same) voltage.  If not, plug in just the lower pack and hook up the charger, carefully bringing it up to just above what the other pack was reading.  Unplug the charger, wait a few minutes, and check the resting voltages of both packs again.  Another strategy than trying to get precisely the same voltage on two packs is to charge each one separately until completely full, then they will be the same.  Maybe one of the packs has a bad cell and doesn't charge to full voltage, which would explain a large differential between the packs.  In that case you've got a bigger problem.  In the short term, if you're willing to put up with having a lower overall capacity and want to ride the wheel, you could discharge the fuller pack somehow to match the one that can't be fully charged, and when the voltages match, connect them together.  In the long term you'd want to replace the bad pack, or perform surgery to replace the bad cell, if you're good at that sort of thing.

Edited by svenomous
Added a suggestion about checking for shorts in the splitter cable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, xorbe said:

If you are DIY type, maybe upgrade to Deans Connectors.  Use the brand name ones (which are more expensive), as I've had mixed results with the non-brand name Deans copies.

WAIT UP.  It's frying as soon as you plug it in?!  You've either got a wiring error, or are plugging things together incorrectly somehow!  Get your voltmeter out, and don't start a battery/house fire!!!

What's the voltage on each pack?  You got a big voltage differential going on here?

Am not saying it’s not but I don’t know why there would be a voltage difference all I did was unplug them from the old shell and put them in the new shell, but I’ll get a voltage meter and test it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, svenomous said:

Yeah: it's normal to see some arcing when plugging the battery pack to the mainboard, as the mainboard's capacitors put a momentary high draw on the pack, which is why the connector should be put together firmly and quickly, but if you're actually damaging the connector I'd take a close look at the situation before attempting to re-connect.  Reverse polarity seems unlikely unless something got re-soldered or re-wired somehow, given that the connectors are keyed and can't be plugged together the wrong way around.  Not very likely in this situation, but do check with an ohmmeter if the splitter cable has any shorts.  If it did, though, the first pack would already be shorting and getting angry when plugged in, so I don't think that's it.

More likely is a large voltage differential.  Voltmeter time, to see first if the two packs are at the same (or very nearly the same) voltage.  If not, plug in just the lower pack and hook up the charger, carefully bringing it up to just above what the other pack was reading.  Unplug the charger, wait a few minutes, and check the resting voltages of both packs again.  Another strategy than trying to get precisely the same voltage on two packs is to charge each one separately until completely full, then they will be the same.  Maybe one of the packs has a bad cell and doesn't charge to full voltage, which would explain a large differential between the packs.  In that case you've got a bigger problem.  In the short term, if you're willing to put up with having a lower overall capacity and want to ride the wheel, you could discharge the fuller pack somehow to match the one that can't be fully charged, and when the voltages match, connect them together.  In the long term you'd want to replace the bad pack, or perform surgery to replace the bad cell, if you're good at that sort of thing.

So how would I go about charging just one battery? Just plug the battery directly to the charge port Via the little red and black wires with the black connectors? and plug the charger in like normal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Shabba said:

Am not saying it’s not but I don’t know why there would be a voltage difference all I did was unplug them from the old shell and put them in the new shell, but I’ll get a voltage meter and test it

I don’t have a voltage meter On Hand but I will buy one tomorrow and see what the readings are

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Shabba said:

So how would I go about charging just one battery? Just plug the battery directly to the charge port Via the little red and black wires with the black connectors? and plug the charger in like normal?

I'm not familiar with this model wheel, but with two packs it's usually possible to disconnect one pack from the wheel's connector harness and leave the other pack connected.  The wheel will work and will charge (careful, though, if you try to ride it, as you've cut the capacity in half).  Don't do this unless you have a way to measure voltage and your intent is to equalize voltages.  You really do need a voltmeter to diagnose this and potentially rectify it, and btw be very careful with the voltmeter probes.  If you accidentally short the two pins in a connector with a probe, you'll get one heck of an arc, and in fact the voltmeter probe may end up getting arc-welded to part of the connector and the connector may end up partially melting...ask me how I know :).

One possible/likely reason for the symptom you're having is a dead cell in one of the packs.  With a dead cell, it's possible for one of the packs to end up at a lower voltage than the other one.  While they're connected together, they're forced to be at the same voltage together while charging and discharging, but when separated it's possible for the "stronger" pack to end up at a higher voltage than the "weaker" pack.  The voltmeter will tell you: if one the packs are different in voltage by more than about 0.1V, try charging each one individually to full charge, and see what their voltages are after that.  If one has a dead cell, it will probably be at a significantly lower voltage than the other one, and you'll know that you have a dead cell.  The only way you can proceed from that point is to either bring the higher-voltage pack down to the level of the other one somehow (by carefully riding the wheel on just that pack for example), or to replace/repair the pack with the bad cell (the one with the lower voltage).

Edited by svenomous
Accidentally quoted the wrong thing, removed the quote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Shabba said:

CAN SOMEONE HELP ME PLEASE, I WANNA RIDE!

 

1 hour ago, svenomous said:

Yeah: it's normal to see some arcing when plugging the battery pack to the mainboard, as the mainboard's capacitors put a momentary high draw on the pack, which is why the connector should be put together firmly and quickly,

 

2 hours ago, xorbe said:

 

If you are DIY type, maybe upgrade to Deans Connectors

 

That happened to me. Hopefully you didn't burn your hand like I did.

49843716237_8deb8794ae_b.jpg

 

If you don’t feel like swapping out the connectors (if there still ok) then try discharging your MB capacitors first before reconnecting the batteries.

Use a 100 watt light bulb with leads attached. You can find a bulb socket with leads at any hardware store or just solder the leads directly to the bulb.

Plug the bulb’s 2 leads into the mainboard’s XT 60 connector. There’s no exact sequence. The bulb should illuminate briefly while it drains the capacitor.

Next deliberately plug in your battery‘s  connectors without hesitation followed by the mainboard connection. The mainboard should always be plugged in last!

Edit: Here is a video of me depleting the capacitors on my old ACM. I used an led bulb. 

 

Edited by Rehab1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

 

 

That happened to me. Hopefully you didn't burn your hand like I did.

49843716237_8deb8794ae_b.jpg

 

If you don’t feel like swapping out the connectors (if there still ok) then try discharging your MB capacitors first before reconnecting the batteries.

Use a 100 watt light bulb with leads attached. You can find a bulb socket with leads at any hardware store or just solder the leads directly to the bulb.

Plug the bulb’s 2 leads into the mainboard’s XT 60 connector. There’s no exact sequence. The bulb should illuminate briefly while it drains the capacitor.

Next deliberately plug in your battery‘s  connectors without hesitation followed by the mainboard connection. The mainboard should always be plugged in last!

Edit: Here is a video of me depleting the capacitors on my old ACM. I used an led bulb. 

 

Oh trust me my hand Looked jus like urs,  I fried my connectors so many times my fire alarm came on, I had to lie to my neighbors and told them I was frying eggs lol, on a serious note, my capacitor should be depleted because after I unplugged it I pushed the power button and that should pretty much drain it, but My xt60 connectors fry before I even make it to the board 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

 

 

That happened to me. Hopefully you didn't burn your hand like I did.

49843716237_8deb8794ae_b.jpg

 

If you don’t feel like swapping out the connectors (if there still ok) then try discharging your MB capacitors first before reconnecting the batteries.

Use a 100 watt light bulb with leads attached. You can find a bulb socket with leads at any hardware store or just solder the leads directly to the bulb.

Plug the bulb’s 2 leads into the mainboard’s XT 60 connector. There’s no exact sequence. The bulb should illuminate briefly while it drains the capacitor.

Next deliberately plug in your battery‘s  connectors without hesitation followed by the mainboard connection. The mainboard should always be plugged in last!

Edit: Here is a video of me depleting the capacitors on my old ACM. I used an led bulb. 

 

So how did u manage to keep urs from fryin again, what did u do different?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The capacitors being charged has nothing to do with what we're seeing here... Pressing the power button while motherboard is disconnected from the batteries will drain the capacitors just fine. If anything, their retaining a charge would reduce arcing when you connect the batteries because they wouldn't abruplty charge, which is what that little "pop" is. This isn't a little "pop" from the capacitors, this is a sustained blast of current from the cells. 

 This looks like reverse polarity or a short, impossible as that should be with the keyed connector. I'd replace the connectors (maybe with XT-90's?), confirm the batteries have the same voltages (and polarities? could one have gone bad?), and rebuild. 

Edit: Maybe not, the pictures show that the connectors all blew on the same side. Weird, I've never gotten more than a pop even from msuper 84v batteries

Edited by tudordewolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Shabba said:

So how did u manage to keep urs from fryin again, what did u do different?

I chickened out and ended up installing the XT 90 anti-spark connectors. 
 

49843199443_6652e0aaa1_b.jpg

 

Edited by Rehab1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I chickened out and ended up installing the XT 90 anti-spark connectors. 
 

49843199443_6652e0aaa1_b.jpg

 

So did you install xt90 connectors to all 3 of your batteries and the splitter? And what advantage does the xt90 connectors have over the xt60, can it handle higher voltage? Am new to all this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I'm not following how a capacitor is melting connectors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, xorbe said:

Yeah I'm not following how a capacitor is melting connectors.

In my case the capacitor is not what’s melting my connectors, as you can see from the photo I don’t even make it to the other side of the wheel, And if you look closely the left  battery male  xt60 connector and the female splitter xt60 connector is fried. nothing is connected on the opposite side 

ADD7DA7E-6F42-4829-8741-DABB2C4E2920.jpeg

Edited by Shabba

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, xorbe said:

Yeah I'm not following how a capacitor is melting connectors.

It’s not the capacitor causing the large arc but the fast bleed of current from the batteries to the mainboard during the connection process.
 

When connecting the batteries to the mainboard with depleted capacitors the arc is much less. But when the capacitors are fully charged the arc is more severe. The combined high voltages of the batteries and fully charged capacitors makes it easier to ionize the thin layer of air between the male and female contacts during the connection process resulting in a huge arc that can fry the XT terminals. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything mentioned in this thread is exactly why I ALWAYS measure EVERY battery connector before connecting. I wouldn’t plug in the connectors in under any circumstances if I didn’t have a volt meter at hand. Way too much hurt and flames squeezed in to those packs!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shabba said:

So did you install xt90 connectors to all 3 of your batteries and the splitter? And what advantage does the xt90 connectors have over the xt60, can it handle higher voltage? Am new to all this

I only installed the XT 90 on the power leads coming off of the mainboard. The XT90s have a built in resister that basically allows a small amount of current to come in when you first plug the male and female connections together. This resistor acts as a spark arrestor.

49843638998_f83da57b3c_m.jpg

 
 

The green is the resistor. This basically allows a small amount of electricity to come in so when you are plugging in halfway enough electricity is coming in so it does not spark when plugged in the rest of the way.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, svenomous said:

@Rehab1, I don't understand what you said about the arcing due to combined voltages. Isn't arcing (and in fact any current flow) caused by voltage differential?  If the battery is at 84V (let's say), and the mainboard side of things (via the capacitors) is still charged to 40V, the differential between them is 44V, vs. 84V difference if the mainboard capacitors were fully discharged. So, shouldn't a partial charge in the capacitors mean less chance of an arc? Otherwise there'd be a huge arc whenever two battery packs are connected to each other in parallel, since 84V + 84V is even more, cumulatively speaking. Yet, when I connect two packs together that are at the same voltage, there's no arc.

You make a good point. I can only state what was explained to me a few years ago.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Shabba said:

So did you install xt90 connectors to all 3 of your batteries and the splitter? And what advantage does the xt90 connectors have over the xt60, can it handle higher voltage? Am new to all this

What the..!   ?

Came straight here  only to then see what I thought was a Monkeys hand repairing an EUC ?  lol

.. I nearly screamed and broke my chair ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so I got a meter and those are the readings I got, there is a huge voltage difference. based on the voltage on the two batteries what should my next step be?

61C2473F-0E0C-4CC9-85F1-3A23AEBC4A09.jpeg

280CDFD6-AD19-4226-98CA-A0880CC6EB46.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

 

 

That happened to me. Hopefully you didn't burn your hand like I did.

49843716237_8deb8794ae_b.jpg

 

If you don’t feel like swapping out the connectors (if there still ok) then try discharging your MB capacitors first before reconnecting the batteries.

Use a 100 watt light bulb with leads attached. You can find a bulb socket with leads at any hardware store or just solder the leads directly to the bulb.

Plug the bulb’s 2 leads into the mainboard’s XT 60 connector. There’s no exact sequence. The bulb should illuminate briefly while it drains the capacitor.

Next deliberately plug in your battery‘s  connectors without hesitation followed by the mainboard connection. The mainboard should always be plugged in last!

Edit: Here is a video of me depleting the capacitors on my old ACM. I used an led bulb. 

 

So Why did your Connectors fry, is it because your voltage was different between the two batteries or it was a connection mistake?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but are those reading 69V and 100V, or 69V and 1V?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, xorbe said:

Sorry, but are those reading 69V and 100V, or 69V and 1V?

69v and 1v

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...