Firmware 2.02 for KS18L/18XL

[Chriull]

2 minutes ago, brockj said:

I'vebeen getting more of the tri-beep (not sure what that is... overlean warning??) and I was even thrown off my wheel from what I assume was an overlean from going hard from a stop, as I like to do. I need to figure out how to dial this back in a bit, but medium mode is mushy for me and not as comfortable for my hilly neighborhood.

Three fast beeps could be overpower (and overvoltage while braking) warning? Did not find a list of KS warning beeps.

Four fast beeps are the "88% alarm" - showing just 12% "left until overlean". https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/17513-18xl-really-fast-beeps/

If you log your ride with euc world you'll have a value "inverter load", showing this percentage (soon it will be called "safety margin" and show 100%-imverter load, so 12% margin instead of 88% load...)

Imho hard to differentiate it there a three or four beeps... 

19 minutes ago, brockj said:

I was even thrown off my wheel from what I assume was an overlean

If you fell forward, it sounds like an overlean. Good that it seems you weren't hurt at this incident, as you didn't mention anything?!

19 minutes ago, brockj said:

from going hard from a stop, as I like to do.

This would speak for "overpower" warning - at slow speeds (from standstill) currents can get just huge! Melting motor wires, frying mosfets, etc...

So KS (and most presumably every other wheel ?but GW?...) has some power (current) limitation for low speeds.

Could be you battery was a bit lower than normal?

Or you had a slight incline this time?

Or you just had a bit a better start than normal?

Or it's really FW 2.02 - harder pedals should generally need higher currents. But not too much is known what was changed between 2.02 and 2.00 except that the pedals feel a bit harder...

19 minutes ago, brockj said:

I need to figure out how to dial this back in a bit, but medium mode is mushy for me and not as comfortable for my hilly neighborhood.

Restrict the "as i like to do" starts to higher battery levels, really flat roads or declines. Log them and and look what's the limit you're reaching.

Or you've just outgrown this wheel (one get's used too acceleration and need more and more?) and you should move on to a MS?S/P/X? or veteran?

[brockj]

19 hours ago, Chriull said:

If you log your ride with euc world you'll have a value "inverter load", showing this percentage (soon it will be called "safety margin" and show 100%-imverter load, so 12% margin instead of 88% load...)

Nice to know what to check. I have always wondered how to tell what my safety margin was. I usually log in EUC World (and I see that inverter load value) but unfortunately not on the days that I got beeps.

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Imho hard to differentiate it there a three or four beeps... 

Definitely three beeps are what I heard. Except for the crash... I may have missed the last beep as I was catching air 😆

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If you fell forward, it sounds like an overlean. Good that it seems you weren't hurt at this incident, as you didn't mention anything?!

Thank you for asking.  Yes, it was very minor. My knee and wrist guards let me slide without feeling much impact, but one elbow got some road rash. So now when Im not wearing the moto jacket the elbow pads always go on.

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This would speak for "overpower" warning - at slow speeds (from standstill) currents can get just huge! Melting motor wires, frying mosfets, etc...

Yikes. Good to know.

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Sould be you battery was a bit lower than normal?

Or you had a slight incline this time?

Or you just had a bit a better start than normal?.

Battery was around 80%. No incline. I think it was just an overeager start.

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Restrict the "as i like to do" starts to higher battery levels, really flat roads or declines. Log them and and look what's the limit you're reaching.

Or you've just outgrown this wheel (one get's used too acceleration and need more and more?) and you should move on to a MS?S/P/X? or veteran?

I think you are on point with both of those ideas. I have been bumping into the limits lately, which is a little easier to do in general with the 18xl and the new 2200W motor, from my understanding. I rarely push it past 42km/h, but I'm a 108kg rider so that's the top for me.

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by brockj

[Seba]

5 hours ago, brockj said:

Definitely three beeps are what I heard.

Three fast beeps means low battery warning.

[Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina]

On 7/5/2020 at 5:15 AM, brockj said:

Nice to know what to check. I have always wondered how to tell what my safety margin was. I usually log in EUC World (and I see that inverter load value) but unfortunately not on the days that I got beeps.

Definitely three beeps are what I heard. Except for the crash... I may have missed the last beep as I was catching air 😆

Thank you for asking.  Yes, it was very minor. My knee and wrist guards let me slide without feeling much impact, but one elbow got some road rash. So now when Im not wearing the moto jacket the elbow pads always go on.

Yikes. Good to know.

Battery was around 80%. No incline. I think it was just an overeager start.

I think you are on point with both of those ideas. I have been bumping into the limits lately, which is a little easier to do in general with the 18xl and the new 2200W motor, from my understanding. I rarely push it past 42km/h, but I'm a 108kg rider so that's the top for me.

 

I also experienced for the first time overlean in a similar situation. I accelerated hard from a low velocity in a steep slope. Euc world recorded 40 amps when pedals tilted forward. 

I was using 2.00. My 18xl motor is 2000w. 

Next week, I borrowed my wheel to my 130kg friend. Slowly, in a steep slope, again, pedals tilted forward and he kissed the ground. 

Conclusion: I have downgraded to 1.13. In the past, on 3500 km, I never experienced such problems. 

[Seba]

9 hours ago, Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina said:

Next week, I borrowed my wheel to my 130kg friend. Slowly, in a steep slope, again, pedals tilted forward and he kissed the ground. 

Conclusion: I have downgraded to 1.13. In the past, on 3500 km, I never experienced such problems. 

Have you tried with different pedal settings (riding mode)? In 2.xx firmware line King Song decided to make medium and hard more more reactive than previously, and this leads to higher current spikes on acceleration from low speeds.

[Chriull]

13 hours ago, Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina said:

I also experienced for the first time overlean in a similar situation. I accelerated hard from a low velocity in a steep slope. Euc world recorded 40 amps when pedals tilted forward. 

I was using 2.00. My 18xl motor is 2000w. 

Next week, I borrowed my wheel to my 130kg friend. Slowly, in a steep slope, again, pedals tilted forward and he kissed the ground. 

Conclusion: I have downgraded to 1.13. In the past, on 3500 km, I never experienced such problems. 

You should try to avoid such situations and believe in KS why they have downgraded max current for such situations - hard accelerations from slow speeds at steep inclines, especially with heavier riders is about the highest burden for the wheel!

This can lead easily to irreversible damage - beside mosfet/wire damage the capacitors seem to suffer a lot...

[Will R]

On my first ride on 2.2 I experienced a cutout during heavy breaking. I was fine and the wheel didn't care as it was virtually at a stop, but the second I got in I downgraded back to 2.0. I love hard mode and there's very little enjoyment in riding something that's going to kick me off if I treat it the way I like to and have done for years, so 2.0 is enough torque for me until my Shermans arrive.

[DavidM]

On 4/29/2020 at 9:54 AM, travsformation said:

This is still a beta version at this point.

Just upgraded with no issues, my wheel has fortunately not become an expensive paper-weight 

 

Well my wheel has become an expensive paper-weight... Indeed using SoftTune, the upgrade process stopped in the middle and I couldn’t start it again... Now the app connects to the Bluetooth but won’t recognise the firmware version or get any data from the wheel! Same with regular KS App... the wheel is dead!

How to deal with Failed firmware update?

 

 

 

[travsformation]

22 hours ago, DavidM said:

Well my wheel has become an expensive paper-weight... Indeed using SoftTune, the upgrade process stopped in the middle and I couldn’t start it again... Now the app connects to the Bluetooth but won’t recognise the firmware version or get any data from the wheel! Same with regular KS App... the wheel is dead!

How to deal with Failed firmware update?

If you know your serial number, maybe it can be recovered with EUC World and a little help from Master @Seba

[Seba]

22 hours ago, DavidM said:

Well my wheel has become an expensive paper-weight... Indeed using SoftTune, the upgrade process stopped in the middle and I couldn’t start it again... Now the app connects to the Bluetooth but won’t recognise the firmware version or get any data from the wheel!

It's normal when your EUC gets stuck in bootloader mode. As long as SoftTuner connects to your wheel, it's OK. Just select your wheel type and firmware version manually and continue with upgrade.

[.....]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:26 AM, Will R said:

On my first ride on 2.2 I experienced a cutout during heavy breaking. I was fine and the wheel didn't care as it was virtually at a stop, but the second I got in I downgraded back to 2.0. I love hard mode and there's very little enjoyment in riding something that's going to kick me off if I treat it the way I like to and have done for years, so 2.0 is enough torque for me until my Shermans arrive.

So it's official (or at least official enough for me). Avoiding the temptation to update from 2.0 to 2.02 was one of my better ideas of the year! I too will try to NEVER muck with the firmware beyond what i currently have. Just like you, Will, I'll wait on the sherman if I think I need more speed/power from a wheel. Better that, than even have the slightest inkling that this cutout shit could happen with my 18L. 2000w motor > 2200w it seems, IF you are worried about your safety and range that is.

Edited July 16, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[travsformation]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

NEVER muck with the firmware beyond what i currently have.

You might be over-reacting. At your weight, I don't think you'll have any issues whatsoever with ANY firmware.  

Seems like throttle sensitivity is the issue here, and weight is a key factor there...I'm about 176 lb with gear and have never had any issues with my 18XL or 16X and the latter has a bad reputation for overlean-induced faceplants at speed. Some say it's unsafe above 40 km/h, I've pushed it to 50 without issue, and accelerated aggressively above 40 with no problems.

I will say though that if you aren't interested in changing the pedal angle, FW 2.02 brings no benefits over 2.0 worth upgrading for if you already like the way your wheel rides (and 2.0 rides splendidly). 

One thing I'd like to stress though is that you can upgrade your FW, try it out, and if you don't like it, roll back to what you were using before. Just use EUC World to do so, not one of the KS apps...there have been two failed upgrades using SoftTuner in the past week. Then again, if you don't trust the Bluetooth connection stability on your LEMFO, just leave things as they are--although EUC World upgrades are solid enough that shouldn't be an issue either. 

[.....]

18 minutes ago, travsformation said:

You might be over-reacting. At your weight, I don't think you'll have any issues whatsoever with ANY firmware.  

Seems like throttle sensitivity is the issue here, and weight is a key factor there...I'm about 176 lb with gear and have never had any issues with my 18XL or 16X and the latter has a bad reputation for overlean-induced faceplants at speed. Some say it's unsafe above 40 km/h, I've pushed it to 50 without issue, and accelerated aggressively above 40 with no problems.

I will say though that if you aren't interested in changing the pedal angle, FW 2.02 brings no benefits over 2.0 worth upgrading for if you already like the way your wheel rides (and 2.0 rides splendidly). 

One thing I'd like to stress though is that you can upgrade your FW, try it out, and if you don't like it, roll back to what you were using before. Just use EUC World to do so, not one of the KS apps...there have been two failed upgrades using SoftTuner in the past week. Then again, if you don't trust the Bluetooth connection stability on your LEMFO, just leave things as they are--although EUC World upgrades are solid enough that shouldn't be an issue either. 

You are probably right, im a feather. I CAN adjust pedal angle with eucw on fw 2.0btw. I tried it once and it worked. However, I went back to flat, as I need to learn to ride better, before I start changing from flat. Same as adding power pads.. No point in me trying to skip learning how to ride and adding crutches already. To be fair, I've also been to scared to try the bluetooth mod. Call me crazy, but my faith in chinese programming has lots of room to be desired. Don't even get me started on the fiasco of wheels getting locked by accident from KS. I enjoy my 18L and i know what to expect, NO WAY am i messing with what aint broke.

Edited July 16, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[travsformation]

3 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

To be fair, I've also been to scared to try the bluetooth mod. Call me crazy, but my faith in chinese programming has lots of room to be desired. Don't even get me started on the fiasco of wheels getting locked by accident from KS. I enjoy my 18L and i know what to expect, NO WAY am i messing with what aint broke.

I can definitely understand that sentiment. The Bluetooth patch didn't work on mine at all, and had to be installed 3 times on the 16X until it worked (first time it did nothing, second the LED lights went off, third it somehow fixed the issue)...if it isn't a big headache for you, I wouldn't risk being a Guinea pig...so probably a wise stance on your part.

[brockj]

On 7/4/2020 at 12:23 AM, Chriull said:

Or you've just outgrown this wheel (one get's used too acceleration and need more and more?) and you should move on to a MS?S/P/X? or veteran?

Well... I did it  and ordered an MSP

Since this is the KingSong forum I should mention that I still love my 18XL 

[travsformation]

5 hours ago, brockj said:

Well... I did it  and ordered an MSP

Since this is the KingSong forum I should mention that I still love my 18XL 

Congrats! I've been on the verge of ordering one myself, it's taking a lot of restraint not to... 😅

Tips I've been given by MSP owners:

- Pads are a must

- Put Monster pedals on it. File them down if you don't like the angle.

- Enjoy the wheel! 

[pandel]

18 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

You are probably right, im a feather. ... I enjoy my 18L and i know what to expect, NO WAY am i messing with what aint broke.

  just wanted to say that I feel exactly the same! As long as it works perfectly well for me, there's no need to change anything. I am a technician and changing firmwares back and forth has not failed only once during the last years, at least in my experience ...

[DavidM]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:13 PM, Seba said:

It's normal when your EUC gets stuck in bootloader mode. As long as SoftTuner connects to your wheel, it's OK. Just select your wheel type and firmware version manually and continue with upgrade.

Hi Seba, I can turn on the wheel (“Bluetooth is connected”). SoftTuner connects to the wheel but no info comes out of the wheel. In the firmware upgrade section, it’s all empty. The wheel doesn’t react. Impossible to upgrade the firmware.

I tried everything : to disconnect the engine and try to upgrade, to put the wheel upside-down and try to upgrade, ...

KS support told me I needed to change my motherboard...

 

[DavidM]

1 minute ago, DavidM said:

Hi Seba, I can turn on the wheel (“Bluetooth is connected”). SoftTuner connects to the wheel but no info comes out of the wheel. In the firmware upgrade section, it’s all empty. The wheel doesn’t react. Impossible to upgrade the firmware.

I tried everything : to disconnect the engine and try to upgrade, to put the wheel upside-down and try to upgrade, ...

KS support told me I needed to change my motherboard...

 

SoftTuner doesn’t allow me to choose my wheel type. Maybe because I connect with SoftTuner as a guest? I don’t have an account and don’t know how to create it.

I also tried EUC World with an android phone: the wheel setting menu doesn’t even appear, as no info from the wheel can be accessed.

nothing works... wheel wasted 

[travsformation]

6 hours ago, DavidM said:

SoftTuner connects to the wheel but no info comes out of the wheel. In the firmware upgrade section, it’s all empty. The wheel doesn’t react. Impossible to upgrade the firmware.

I tried everything : to disconnect the engine and try to upgrade, to put the wheel upside-down and try to upgrade, ...

KS support told me I needed to change my motherboard...

5 hours ago, DavidM said:

SoftTuner doesn’t allow me to choose my wheel type. Maybe because I connect with SoftTuner as a guest? I don’t have an account and don’t know how to create it.

nothing works... wheel wasted 

Anything you can do to help here, @Jack King Song? Thanks! 

 

[Electric Dreams]

On 7/19/2020 at 5:27 AM, travsformation said:

Anything you can do to help here, @Jack King Song? Thanks! 

 

I've been in communication with David on FB thanks. 

[DavidM]

On 7/21/2020 at 5:00 PM, Jack King Song said:

I've been in communication with David on FB thanks. 

Yes, now waiting for a new motherboard...

[Dgtreble]

I am dealing with this exact issue! I've been going crazy trying to figure this out! @Jack King song you told me you never have seen this before well here it is again!!!