Firmware 2.02 for KS18L/18XL

[travsformation]

This is still a beta version at this point.

Just upgraded with no issues, my wheel has fortunately not become an expensive paper-weight 

Haven't taken it for a ride yet, but reports so far indicate that there are no noticeable changes in behavior compared to FW 2.0. (I can confirm that has been my experience so far on FW 2.02 with my 16X, although I've only put 15 km on it since the upgrade)

The only change I can confirm for sure is the ability to change pedal tilt (as well as set wheel auto power-off).

And no, the headlight/taillight bug has not been fixed... 

[Seba]

On 4/29/2020 at 3:54 AM, travsformation said:

And no, the headlight/taillight bug has not been fixed... 

Because "it's not a bug, it's feature!" 

[Pedro Capitão]

On 4/30/2020 at 9:57 PM, Seba said:

Because "it's not a bug, it's feature!" 

Ah, ah, ah... nice "feature" - is like KS16S 2.01 firmware that default main light when you turn on lights is the white one, but... in the back of the wheel! 

[Will R]

Is there any noticeable improvement in battery life on the new firmware? Worth upgrading or stay on 2.01?

[travsformation]

4 hours ago, Will R said:

Is there any noticeable improvement in battery life on the new firmware? Worth upgrading or stay on 2.01?

Have yet to test, but I doubt it. Under-the-hood changes from 1.1.X to 2.X were much more significant...I don't the impression much has changed here

[travsformation]

This is completely off-topic,  but @Seba has asked Jack Kingsong about the possibility of muting KS wheels' confirmation beeps (when connecting to the wheel, making changes in the app, etc.) in future FW upgrades but there are currently only 7 users following the thread where the request was posted. I imagine there are MANY of us who'd love to be able to mute them (to not wake up the the entire household when leaving home in the morning, to not draw (even more) attention to ourselves when at a restaurant/café, etc., to not get caught when sneaking out to the pub... ), so this is a good chance for KS users to show our support for this very desirable request!

To do so, simply follow this link and like Seba's post. No more, no less.

Please refrain from adding additional requests, tagging Jack (which I've deliberately avoided doing in this post), asking him questions, complaining about issues (including the beeps! ), making accusations, etc. We're very fortunate to have a KS representative in the forum so there's a direct channel with the manufacturer, but remember that it's just one person, he can't keep up with the questions and requests of an entire forum as it's virtually impossible, so please let mods and app developers channel requests so we don't overwhelm him. He's doing us a massive favour by sticking around, so let's be grateful and respectful! 

So to reiterate, I'm only asking you to like Seba's post (nothing more!) if you would like to be able to mute the beeps on your KS wheels.  

P.S. Sorry if this is borderline spamming, but I think it's an issue worth giving visibility to. I'm not selling anything 

Edited May 11, 2020 by travsformation

[mrelwood]

We installed fw 2.02 to a friend’s 18XL in the local meet yesterday. The difference to the 2.01 was much clearer to me than it was on my 16S. The 2.02 hard mode was the closest to the MSX hard mode that I’ve ever felt on a non-GW, with all it’s cons regarding braking. The mode is just too hard to allow fast braking with a reasonable effort. Switching to medium mode made it feel much closer to the 2.01 hard mode. The behavior was still slightly different, but anybody who considers the braking or accelerating lacking on the 2.02, give a try to the medium mode!

[travsformation]

51 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

We installed fw 2.02 to a friend’s 18XL in the local meet yesterday. The difference to the 2.01 was much clearer to me than it was on my 16S. The 2.02 hard mode was the closest to the MSX hard mode that I’ve ever felt on a non-GW, with all it’s cons regarding braking. The mode is just too hard to allow fast braking with a reasonable effort. Switching to medium mode made it feel much closer to the 2.01 hard mode. The behavior was still slightly different, but anybody who considers the braking or accelerating lacking on the 2.02, give a try to the medium mode!

Great feedback, definitely worth giving it a try, thanks!

What are your impressions on the differences in braking in 2.02 medium mode vs. 2.01 hard mode?

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, travsformation said:

Great feedback, definitely worth giving it a try, thanks!

What are your impressions on the differences in braking in 2.02 medium mode vs. 2.01 hard mode?

I found the difference to be small enough that on some occasions I might not even recognize riding one or the other if someone switched it without me knowing. But the specific behaviour that the 2.01 hard introduced feels like the wheel is lifting my heels a bit after I start to brake. I thought the lifting was slightly smoother or smaller on the 2.02 medium.

(Edit: I didn't feel like there would've been a difference in the braking performance per se, and I didn't feel like either would help me brake faster than the other. It was just how the wheel felt during braking.)

On the 16S the 2.02 hard also seemed to make the power delivery very slightly smoother than on the 2.01 hard. Maybe the 16S doesn't have the hardware capability to get any harder, so the difference between 2.01 and 2.02 feels smaller than it does on the 18XL.

Edited May 11, 2020 by mrelwood

[travsformation]

@mrelwood I took the 18XL out for the first ride yesterday since upgrading to 2.02, and completely share your impressions.  I wouldn't say acceleration is noticeably better, (any improvements are probably going to feel negligible after the 2.0 upgrade) but the overall pedal hardness feel is definitely there. I've never ridden the 18XL on anything that isn't hard mode, but I kind of prefer medium on 2.02.

I must have switched between hard and medium about 15 times during the ride, and I agree with you, I can't say the braking is better on one or the other, just a different feel (that requires a different approach). In hard mode, if you brake with plenty of intentionality, it feels more responsive initially, when you first lean back, but the stiffness makes maintaining that level of braking somewhat difficult, you really have to dig your heels in and put some force into braking, it almost feels like the wheel is fighting you. 

In medium mode there isn't as much initial ooomph to the braking, it isn't quite as immediate, but once you lean back, the wheel allows you to do so and once it starts braking, it feels like it does so faster; it's more of an incremental, springy, cushy braking---definitely more comfortable. I can see the advantages to both in different situations/for different riding styles.

I haven't played with pedal tilt yet, but I'm sure a little negative tilt would help with braking in hard mode. 

I kind of preferred 2.0, it felt more balanced overall, but the mind tends to prefer what it's used to. We'll see with time...

@Seba, you're in 2.02 too right? What are your impressions? 

Edited May 12, 2020 by travsformation

[travsformation]

BTW, @mrelwood, I'm not sure I entirely agree that medium mode in 2.02 is the same as hard in 2.0.

In 2.02, hard is definitely harder, but medium is a little too soft for me (I've always used hard mode in previous FWs). I think they had the stiffness modes just right in 2.0 (or 1.07 in the case of the 16X)

[mrelwood]

20 minutes ago, travsformation said:

BTW, @mrelwood, I'm not sure I entirely agree that medium mode in 2.02 is the same as hard in 2.0.

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that it would be the same, just that to me the 2.02 medium felt much closer to 2.01 hard than the 2.02 hard. Especially when braking. I only rode a quick one minute test on it, so I definitely didn’t test them at all thoroughly in various situations.

 Trying the medium mode has seemed to be a bit challenging for several riders who are psychologically gotten used to riding the KS “Expert” mode. But since the pedal hardness has increased quite a bit since the launch, it would only make sense to give it a go.

Edited May 12, 2020 by mrelwood

[travsformation]

29 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that it would be the same, just that to me the 2.02 medium felt much closer to 2.01 hard than the 2.02 hard. Especially when braking. I only rode a quick one minute test on it, so I definitely didn’t test them at all thoroughly in various situations.

Especially when braking, that's they key 

29 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Trying the medium mode has seemed to be a bit challenging for several riders who are psychologically gotten used to riding the KS “Expert” mode. But since the pedal hardness has increased quite a bit since the launch, it would only make sense to give it a go.

I'm in that group too. Hard mode was just perfect for me in 2.0, but is too hard in 2.02; and medium mode is too soft for me in both FWs. I think 2.0 hard is my personal preference

[travsformation]

Firmware 2.02 release notes:

• Adapt APP to adjust the front and rear declination 
• Adapt APP to adjust left and right shutdown angle
• All production fault codes are sent to the APP to facilitate users to lock down the problems
• Join the total riding time and send it to the APP
• Optimize charging management. Resume charging after the power drops if do not unplug the charger for a long time.
• The shutdown time can be adjusted in the app

No mention of changes to pedal hardness, etc. Is it just our imagination....?   

[pandel]

BTW, is there any possiblity to get back to 2.0 if one doesn't like 2.02 at all? Softtuner only lists 2.02 and some 1.0blabla version.

[John Montpetit]

On 4/29/2020 at 10:54 AM, travsformation said:

This is still a beta version at this point.

Just upgraded with no issues, my wheel has fortunately not become an expensive paper-weight 

Haven't taken it for a ride yet, but reports so far indicate that there are no noticeable changes in behavior compared to FW 2.0. (I can confirm that has been my experience so far on FW 2.02 with my 16X, although I've only put 15 km on it since the upgrade)

The only change I can confirm for sure is the ability to change pedal tilt (as well as set wheel auto power-off).

And no, the headlight/taillight bug has not been fixed... 

Where did you get it?

[travsformation]

15 hours ago, pandel said:

BTW, is there any possiblity to get back to 2.0 if one doesn't like 2.02 at all? Softtuner only lists 2.02 and some 1.0blabla version.

You're right, KS appears to have removed it, it's no longer available via SoftTuner:

If you want to downgrade, it looks like your only option is using EUC World:

 

 

[travsformation]

13 hours ago, John Montpetit said:

Where did you get it?

Since @pandel pointed out that 2.0 is no longer available, I'm guessing 2.02 must be official now. So:

- On Android: EUC World app (vailable on the Play Store), KS app (available on KS's website as an APK, just google "Kingsong android app"), KS SoftTuner app (not officially available)

- iOS: KS SoftTuner app (avalable in the app store)

 

[pandel]

Thanks for clarification! I think I stay with my 2.0. I am absolutely satisfied with the way my 18L works and as it seems that there are no significant improvements in 2.02, it seems unnecessary to upgrade now.

[Circuitmage]

Keeping 2.0 based on this thread. Thanks!

 

[travsformation]

On 5/19/2020 at 4:50 PM, Circuitmage said:

Keeping 2.0 based on this thread. Thanks!

FW upgrades aren't the kind of commitment they used to be. You can install it, try it out, and if you don't like it, go back to 2.0 (on Android, using EUC World, 2.0 isn't available on SoftTuner anymore)

[travsformation]

 On the topic of firmware upgrades/downgrades, I know there are a lot of Android users out there who don't have access to the SoftTuner app and are probably curious about all that's being discussed in this thread  so I finally got my ass in gear and made a tutorial on firmware upgrades/downgrades using EUC World. As Mike Sacristan has said in several occasions, firmware upgrades/downgrades are a simple process that takes 5 minutes, so if you don't like your new firmware, you can go back to whatever you had before. 

And if you you're worried about bricking your wheel, don't be---I've tried my best and failed, the process is fool-proof/travsformation-proof, and I personally trust EUC World way more than I trust the official [text missing] app 

P.S. While FW 2.0 is no longer available for downgrade on KS's servers, it is on EUC World's 
 

 

[joku]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:45 AM, mrelwood said:

We installed fw 2.02 to a friend’s 18XL in the local meet yesterday. The difference to the 2.01 was much clearer to me than it was on my 16S. The 2.02 hard mode was the closest to the MSX hard mode that I’ve ever felt on a non-GW, with all it’s cons regarding braking. The mode is just too hard to allow fast braking with a reasonable effort. Switching to medium mode made it feel much closer to the 2.01 hard mode. The behavior was still slightly different, but anybody who considers the braking or accelerating lacking on the 2.02, give a try to the medium mode!

Thank you! I updated from 1.13 to 2.02 and was hating it. Setting it to medium put the ride back into the surfy/flow feel that i like. Hard is way too stiff now. Im enjoying firmware 2.02 now. Thanks again

[.....]

On 5/22/2020 at 11:02 PM, travsformation said:

P.S. While FW 2.0 is no longer available for downgrade on KS's servers, it is on EUC World's

You gotta be kidding right? I still havent had the nerve to upgrade from 2.0 on my 18L, and NOW you're saying that KS has taken it off their servers? Not a big deal, as eucw is my goto and ks app is my hide from. However, it does place the total burden on Seba now, doesn't it? I'm worried to upgrade to 2.02, as 2.0 works great and has minimal throttling. Its so hard to know exactly what is what on fw updates. I haven't the patience to try it, make notes, change it, make notes, repeat and compare. Its been a while since I checked, I wonder what version of EUCW we are on now? I'll look around and find it, just a simple musing is all. "Firm Waer", give me a fukn break ks, have someone proofread your shit, or take notes. It isn't like you haven't had to use the phrase 'firmware' in English for years now.  Give me 5 minutes and I can type a simple word in Chinese and reuse it for 5 years. Its shit like this that makes a person wonder....LONG LIVE EUCW!! Bless you @Seba!

Edited June 21, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[brockj]

Im loving hard mode on 2.02. Coupled with a slight pedal tilt (-1), the access to torque is fun but... kind of scary. 

I'vebeen getting more of the tri-beep (not sure what that is... overlean warning??) and I was even thrown off my wheel from what I assume was an overlean from going hard from a stop, as I like to do. I need to figure out how to dial this back in a bit, but medium mode is mushy for me and not as comfortable for my hilly neighborhood.

Edited July 4, 2020 by brockj