Firmware 2.02 for KS16X

[DjPanJan]

On 5/19/2020 at 11:00 AM, DannyK said:

Another difference on 2.02 is the responsiveness on lift sensor. I found this difference coming over from 1.08 as well. I use stairs every day and on 1.08 and 1.07 lift sensor has a delay and the wheel often spins on lift thinking its still moving. So before lifting I always had to give it some pause or a little pull back for the wheel to recognize the full stop. On 2.02 though, that much pause or pull back wasnt necessary before lifting, meaning lift sensor works more instantly after the stop which is convenient for me as I use stairs every day.

However Id still stick with 1.07 for now seeing there arent much changes on 2.02 with riding algorythms and especially that it has worse battery efficiency. Pls give us back the battery with 2.02 features 😭 @Jack King Song

@DannyK oh man .... 1. lift sensor is just sensor on/off firmware have no efect for this. If you move +4 km/h lift sensor not trigger because safety. That is why sometime not work.

2. you have no proof 2.02 is more battery consumation.(only speculations and feel riders with v1.4 board have not same 16x like riders with v1.5)

3. i tested 2.02 and same route next day 1.07 (40km) range was diferent but i incrase PSI for 1.07 test results 1.07 +-10% more energy in finish. This can be just measure error no real proof and i test/changed pedal angles manytimes maybee pedal angle have range inpact too. @Jack King Song is evidently silent maybee he have fear write something because some people is not super constructive.

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by DjPanJan

[DannyK]

17 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

@DannyK oh man .... 1. lift sensor is just sensor on/off firmware have no efect for this. If you move +4 km/h lift sensor not trigger because safety. That is why sometime not work.

2. you have no proof 2.02 is more battery consumation.(only speculations and feel riders with v1.4 board have not same 16x like riders with v1.5)

3. i tested 2.02 and same route next day 1.07 (40km) range was diferent but i incrase PSI for 1.07 test results 1.07 +-10% more energy in finish. This can be just measure error no real proof and i test/changed pedal angles manytimes maybee pedal angle have range inpact too. @Jack King Song is evidently silent maybee he have fear write something because people like you is not super constructive. I dont know nothing about Chinese mentality and fear of fail i work 7 years with Korean management and i know how diferent is mental setup this peple compared to center europe ppl mentality.

 

I never expect the lift sensor to work while Im riding and obviously not around 4kph. I meant lifting upon stop while dragging wheel by hand which will be less than 1kph or something. If I lift while dragging the wheel itd obviously spin, but upon stop and lift, sensor kicks in instantly without delay with 2.02 whereas with previous FWs I had to wait a bit or pull the wheel backwards before lifting to let the sensor kick in. Really wish I could upload videos here. You can try it yourself on the stairs.

I drag the wheel on each floors before lifting the wheel again to climb up the next staircase and every now and then the wheel would spin upon lift unless I give it enough pause to let it recognize the stop. I meant on 2.02 sensor works quite more instantly upon stop without having to wait. I havent seen the wheel spin on the staircase with 2.02 for a few days until today I downgraded to 1.07 and it spinned again and I had to remind myself of that longer pause before lifting. 

Also I havent said anything about battery life with v1.4 and v1.5. I mentioned what some ppl say about their experience with fw 1.05 with v1.5. And at this point I dont think its a speculation that 2.02 has more battery consumption than previous FW. Only the cause of it is a speculation.

Edited May 19, 2020 by DannyK

[DannyK]

40 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

@Jack King Song is evidently silent maybee he have fear write something because people like you is not super constructive. I dont know nothing about Chinese mentality and fear of fail i work 7 years with Korean management and i know how diferent is mental setup this peple compared to center europe ppl mentality.

 

And why is this not a real speculation you are giving there? Be aware of what you say about how something like mentality differs with race. Well I dont completely object it given from cultural differences, but it could sound really wrong.

Btws just got to wonder what you would have to say, would u mind telling how exactly Korean mental set up is different with Europeans?

Edited May 19, 2020 by DannyK

[DjPanJan]

Back to the topic. My lift sensors are "old" from 2 batches, it is possible that your 4 batches behave differently, I don't question it at all. I just want to say that my FW had 0 change to my lift sensors. I lift the ks16X until I hear 2 beeps. Then I'll peel it off the ground. (all this text translated by google translate I do not want unnecessary misunderstandings)

Edited May 23, 2020 by DjPanJan
edit

[DjPanJan]

Ok time focus on topic FW 2.02 Here i post my test. Is same route 

FW 1.07 100% battery (after ballance) https://euc.world/tour/586647787740235

FW 2.02 95% battery (only sartcharger) https://euc.world/tour/586606264629225 + add 10 Km back to home.( is not included in this tour)

FW 1.07 30% battery left (12% under load) 38km trip

FW 2.02 +-30% battery left (4% under load) 38km trip

under load = i mean 10km/h to high incline near my house and i looking on smartwatch how deply % fall under aceleration (load)

Fw 2.02 i try change pedal angle often how my tired foot feel + or - angle. 

I hope this is usefull for somebody  i am 120Kg 🐷🐖  188cm full of love  💖 person. 

I belive weight is BIG factor for all EUC. 

 

[jimjam.nyc]

I just want to chime in here. I recently got a new 16x that came with 1.08.

I upgraded to 2.02 and do notice a small difference in feel. A definite difference in braking. Overall the changes are positive.

As far as battery consumption. Personally I have not noticed much change. I ride on medium mode. This doesn't mean there is not a change here. Just my observations so far. It's still very new firmware.

It will be tough to accurately measure battery consumption since everything effects it. A change in wind direction and speed alone can change these results. Not to mention riding style and a boatload of other variables.

In the end... Find the firmware that works for you and use it. KS gives us the ability to do this. (Thank you KS) So no real reason to get too deep into all of this, and create arguments over which one is better/worse. 

Just my 2 cents.

Happy riding guys!!! And I hope KS keeps developing their firmware for this wheel. Options are good. Especially with a usergrouop that loves using the products so much

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

6 hours ago, buell47 said:

I will later test 1.0.7 on the same route in medium mode and report if I have the same increased consumption as in 2.0.2.

 I wouldn't have expected that. In 1.0.7 no difference in power consumption between pedal soft mode and medium mode.

Same route, same AVG speed and even strong headwind on some parts of the route that are not in the forest.

The voltage drop is only 7.7 volts with 1.0.7 in medium mode instead of 10 volts with 2.0.2 in medium mode.

I really don't know what to think of 2.0.2. 

Pure coincidence? 

[DjPanJan]

41 minutes ago, buell47 said:

 I wouldn't have expected that. In 1.0.7 no difference in power consumption between pedal soft mode and medium mode.

Same route, same AVG speed and even strong headwind on some parts of the route that are not in the forest.

The voltage drop is only 7.7 volts with 1.0.7 in medium mode instead of 10 volts with 2.0.2 in medium mode.

I really don't know what to think of 2.0.2. 

Pure coincidence? 

Science needs you in name of EUC gods test need be repeated. 👨🏻‍🔬🧪♾🔬🔭🥼👍🏻

[Mike Sacristan]

I wrote a comment in another thread today and also posted some screenshots.

Long story short. I switched to FW 2.02 again today.
I rode it on the hard mode.
I rode like an A-hole half of the time beeping at 45 kmh.
64km and 30% battery left.
My riding weight was 68kg.
It was a bit warmer out usual today but still +12C that went down to +7C in the evening.

FW 2.02 feels very solid and is a lot of fun to ride. Very controlled and fun to carve.
This is the first firmware I can ride where my heels can be over the back of the pedals, otherwise I have kept them in line with the back of the pedals.
The wheel shifts backward/forward depending on decline/incline.
I tried a steep hill and failed terribly.
It did not matter to me because I enjoyed ripping around on the wheel doing whatever I liked and it tilted me accordingly.
I did the steepest drop ever at a skate park and almost died of a heart attack.
I have done an easier one on FW 1.05 and landed on my ass.
I did the steepest bowl climb ever at a skate park. Smacked my foot. Died inside. But I completed the jump.
Then I did a harder one... completed it as well. Dead inside now. Gonna have a beer.

 

[Bruno Andrade]

I noticed greater safety when driving on cobblestone roads.  The unicycle is smoother and it does not give small scratches (slips) when the mono is accelerated over the irregularities of the stones.  The feeling of being thrown in front of the mono in this situation was very unpleasant.

[Tinkererboi]

I do feel that battery consumption is higher with 2.02 as well but it's also much easier to maintain a high average speed. I'm gonna stick with it for now.

Believe that once my body gets used to riding the wheel more gently thanks to the increased acceleration i'll be back to the same average speeds and battery life as before.

Main benefit it seems will be less fatigue on long rides. I can already feel the increased comfort during the few rides i managed to squeeze in.

For seated riding - no longer need to hunch over like i'm trying to squeeze out a turd to maintain +-45kph.

For upright riding - no longer need to press down hard with my toes, clamp down on my pads and dry hump the air to get that super burst of acceleration. 

Would like to take it to my usual root infested, hilly trail and see if there's any compromise in torque. Not easy in lockdown times. One can only wish.. 

[stephen]

2 minutes ago, Tinkererboi said:

For upright riding - no longer need to press down hard with my toes, clamp down on my pads and dry hump the air to get that super burst of acceleration

202 it's very smooth and fast it does feel nice that way 👍

2 minutes ago, Tinkererboi said:

For seated riding - no longer need to hunch over like i'm trying to squeeze out a turd to maintain +-45kph

[travsformation]

Slightly off-topic here, but wanted to jump in to add a quick note: We're working on a new way of providing feedback to manufacturers, as to date, the whole "just tag Jack Kingsong" approach hasn't proved very effective. (Unlike us) he doesn't log into the forum on a daily basis, so when he does, after a week without logging in, you can imagine the chaos of being welcomed by triple-digit notifications pointing to a dozen different posts...overwhelming, to say the least.

I think it's best to reduce tagging to the essential. How about this scenario:

- A user notices that battery consumption has changed in FW Y comapred to firmware X. Instead of tagging Jack Kingsong, we wait until other users have tried to reproduce that same behaviour. If after a significant enough number of users (not just a couple) have confirmed it (and it's not just speculation), a mod will tag Jack Kingsong so he knows that it's not just a random tag, but something that's worthy of his attention. 

If no mod is present, tag a mod instead of Jack Kingsong and the mod will study the case and determine whether the info is significant enough to tag Jack. Of course, you can disagree with the mod, I'm not trying to implement a dictatorship, I just think it would be a much more sensible approach that would make the feedback we provide more valuable and the chances of it being taken seriously higher 

 

[Mike Sacristan]

34 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Slightly off-topic here, but wanted to jump in to add a quick note: We're working on a new way of providing feedback to manufacturers, as to date, the whole "just tag Jack Kingsong" approach hasn't proved very effective. (Unlike us) he doesn't log into the forum on a daily basis, so when he does, after a week without logging in, you can imagine the chaos of being welcomed by triple-digit notifications pointing to a dozen different posts...overwhelming, to say the least.

Excellent idea!
I would not want to log in, see 100 notifications. Read through the first three and see my name in the middle of an obscure post where only half of what is written is relevant and the rest links to something else or a quote or a previous discussion.

34 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I think it's best to reduce tagging to the essential. How about this scenario:

- A user notices that battery consumption has changed in FW Y comapred to firmware X. Instead of tagging Jack Kingsong, we wait until other users have tried to reproduce that same behaviour. If after a significant enough number of users (not just a couple) have confirmed it (and it's not just speculation), a mod will tag Jack Kingsong so he knows that it's not just a random tag, but something that's worthy of his attention. 

Great idea filtering these requests through the mods.

34 minutes ago, travsformation said:

If no mod is present, tag a mod instead of Jack Kingsong and the mod will study the case and determine whether the info is significant enough to tag Jack. Of course, you can disagree with the mod, I'm not trying to implement a dictatorship, I just think it would be a much more sensible approach that would make the feedback we provide more valuable and the chances of it being taken seriously higher 

 

Yes the feedback system doesn't work if we are tagging a representative and asking them to read our subjective impressions as well as act upon them.
It would also help if the language and tone used was less emotional, less accusing, etc.
We pride ourselves so much on our scientific approach until our feelings get in the way and then we put the burden of proof on the other person.
PROVE TO ME THAT FW 2.02 DOES NOT USE MORE RANGE. WHAT DID YOU CHANGE!!!
Do we want them to tell us that they changed to banana flavour so that we can say that they are wrong and that it tastes more like a mango?
FW 2.03: Changed fruit to other fruit.
WHAT FRUIT? WHAT AM I TASTING? IS THIS CHERRY? I DEMAND TO KNOW!!!

There is a lot of noise on this forum and that is all fine and dandy as long as we aren't constantly crying wolf. Then we are just training the people who are trying to help to not help us.

I think I need to go out and ride now! I'm outta heeeeeeere....

[jimjam.nyc]

32 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Excellent idea!
I would not want to log in, see 100 notifications. Read through the first three and see my name in the middle of an obscure post where only half of what is written is relevant and the rest links to something else or a quote or a previous discussion.

Great idea filtering these requests through the mods.

Yes the feedback system doesn't work if we are tagging a representative and asking them to read our subjective impressions as well as act upon them.
It would also help if the language and tone used was less emotional, less accusing, etc.
We pride ourselves so much on our scientific approach until our feelings get in the way and then we put the burden of proof on the other person.
PROVE TO ME THAT FW 2.02 DOES NOT USE MORE RANGE. WHAT DID YOU CHANGE!!!
Do we want them to tell us that they changed to banana flavour so that we can say that they are wrong and that it tastes more like a mango?
FW 2.03: Changed fruit to other fruit.
WHAT FRUIT? WHAT AM I TASTING? IS THIS CHERRY? I DEMAND TO KNOW!!!

There is a lot of noise on this forum and that is all fine and dandy as long as we aren't constantly crying wolf. Then we are just training the people who are trying to help to not help us.

I think I need to go out and ride now! I'm outta heeeeeeere....

Why ride, when you can read about what its like to ride.. Isn't it more fun to speculate than to actually ride one of these things? :-) I am kidding.. 

All joking aside.. i like the filtering feedback idea as well.. When the Q&A SKS18 thread was there.. It was cringe worthy to even read some of the stuff in there.. All though i was sad when it got shut down.. I was kind of happy i didn't have to cringe at my screen for 10 mins a day while i dug through it for actual useful information. 

We are getting some cool things from KS from direct feedback, and some really good benefits from having jack here. Lets try and keep it going, and not ruin it. 

[travsformation]

1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:

We pride ourselves so much on our scientific approach until our feelings get in the way and then we put the burden of proof on the other person.
PROVE TO ME THAT FW 2.02 DOES NOT USE MORE RANGE. WHAT DID YOU CHANGE!!!
Do we want them to tell us that they changed to banana flavour so that we can say that they are wrong and that it tastes more like a mango?
FW 2.03: Changed fruit to other fruit.
WHAT FRUIT? WHAT AM I TASTING? IS THIS CHERRY? I DEMAND TO KNOW!!!

That was absolutely priceless!

Am also going to go out and enjoy my banana-mango firmware instead of debating about it 

[Mike Sacristan]

2 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Why ride, when you can read about what its like to ride.. Isn't it more fun to speculate than to actually ride one of these things? :-) I am kidding.. 

All joking aside.. i like the filtering feedback idea as well.. When the Q&A SKS18 thread was there.. It was cringe worthy to even read some of the stuff in there.. All though i was sad when it got shut down.. I was kind of happy i didn't have to cringe at my screen for 10 mins a day while i dug through it for actual useful information. 

We are getting some cool things from KS from direct feedback, and some really good benefits from having jack here. Lets try and keep it going, and not ruin it. 

Thank you @jimjam.nyc! Nice to hear that I am not the only one cringing. Even worse it makes me feel shame and embarrassment.  
Also I do agree that speculation (or masturbation as I sometimes call it) is very much part of OUR community. I enjoy our tech talks on this forum and I enjoy seeing others ride as well. Sharing knowledge and experiences and being part of this great community is half of the fun. Maybe we just don't have to drag Jack into it all the time lol.

2 hours ago, travsformation said:

That was absolutely priceless!

Am also going to go out and enjoy my banana-mango firmware instead of debating about it 

Haha thank you!
Out last step is to make some kind of reporting system for this.
Perhaps a thread with a topic or poll. Then one could summarise the info and report it to KS as a request or bug fix, etc.
Our feedback is only valuable if it is presented in a valuable form.

----------

I just got back form my tropical-potato ride on FW 2.02.
I was going down the street where I live and there was a car behind me. The speed limit is this area is 30 kmh but he did not seem to think so. So I silently farted and hit 49.5 kmh upon which I hit a new pothole that I have never seen before. The 16X just floated right over it (I countered like a boss of course) and that was that. 49 kmh pothole completed.

I kept on riding and tried to slow down but couldn't because FW 2.02 is just so crazy stable and it carves without accelerating unlike 1.05. With 1.05 I have to hold my breath while carving so that I don't accidentally hit one million kmh mid carve. So now I can slalom like a fool while feeling very secure and maybe I can actually learn to ride properly lol.

I continued riding and attempted some hill climbing. I did the same hill I did the other day with Simon (18XL overheated), Fredrik (18XL no probs), MSX 84v (I struggled up).
The 16X struggled up.. I had to reposition my legs several times. That is because I don't have side pads. I pulled 16.5A at most lmao. What a joke.
I then tried another similar 24-26 degree hill but on the soft mode... no difference really. I won't say that FW 1.05 would fly up the hill... but I can do it with much less effort and repositioning. Perhaps I will do some FW changing and comparison tomorrow.

I then did some off-roading. I hit a few unexpected obstacles and almost fell off the front of the 16X. Sort of like if you are on a skateboard and hit a pistacho shell. 16X slowed down faster than my body so I really had to catch myself. This happened twice. On FW 1.05 the forward falling motion from me would cause a fast acceleration and the wheel would just torque over whatever got it in it's way and get back under me.

So in the end what has FW 2.02 given me?
I can ride the hell out of it at max speed now. Safely.
It carves beautifully. It brakes well enough. It is comfortable to ride. I can have a nice riding posture on it and not hunch or lean back all the time.
I get around 1km per % unit unless I unleash my final form of pure A-hole rider.
So this 16X with FW 2.02 now feels solid. Like a baby Gotway. Which it did in 1.07 as well.

Does this mean I never want to use FW 1.05 again?
Does this mean I will never try FW 1.07 again?

Am I ever gonna dance again? Guilty feet have got no rhythm.

So if we look at the release notes what is missing?
That the stiffer pedal mode uses more battery? 
That they changed the riding feel? Did they? Maybe it's just because of the pedals lol.
Is 1.07 stiffer? I don't remember. Should I ask them if 1.07 feels stiffer to ME than 2.02? 

• Adapt APP to adjust the front and rear declination 
• Adapt APP to adjust left and right shutdown angle
• All production fault codes are sent to the APP to facilitate users to lock down the problems
• Join the total riding time and send it to the APP
• Optimize charging management. Resume charging after the power drops if do not unplug the charger for a long time.
• The shutdown time can be adjusted in the app

Those are the release notes.

Has anyone tested FW 1.07 to FW 2.02 back to back and back and forth, etc and come to the conclusion that there is a different riding feel?
Is it just one person? So that would be a n=1 which we are against.
Is it several people? Then maybe we have a case lol.

And then we could just ask.
Hi, several users reported a change in the driving characteristics of FW 2.02 compared to FW 1.07.
Could you please include this information in future release notes and perhaps a brief description.
 

We are going out for a late evening group ride today.. so time for me to get ready to roll!
I will keep FW 2.02 so I can blast the hell out of all the other riders! Nikola 100v or not!
BECAUSE I CAN RIDE FAST ALL THE TIME!

 KYEEEEKYEKEKEKEKEKE!!!

[Michael Tucker]

Mine came with 1.08...I upgraded to 2.02. Very fast in acceleration, smooth and playful. Feels powerful and in control at any speed. Gets to 45kph so fast. The high speed cut-off reputation is always there in the back of my mind so I never go above 28mph. It is my new favorite wheel with 2.02, even though my Nikola can do more (far more) like 35mph up winding mountain roads. The KS16X is just more playful and fun at 25mph, and brilliant for errands. I find myself creeping around in the cool mountain nights by moonlight at 15mph on the KS16X for hours. When I step on that Nikola, I can't keep it below 20mph without feeling board. I can out run a barking dog on my KS16X, but I can outrun a coyote on my Nikola. I can't live without either one!

[DjPanJan]

Just such an observation. Jack King Song was obviously on the forum as he edited his post regarding the BT patch.(fact)🕵🏻‍♂️
This means that with a high probability bordering on certainty. Evidently, he deliberately ignores this 2.02 topic and behavior changes, if any, against 1.07 and lets us drown in speculation.
No answer is also an answer.🕵🏻‍♀️ So logically and with knowledge of psychology, it is highly likely that something happened that they do not want to talk about. We will not know whether this initiative is "from above" or it is "his" choice. This is my observation.🧪🔬👨🏻‍🔬🕵🏻‍♂️
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- --------
Here I will make myself(under line) a naive optimist and I will think that we will find out the details as soon as the Kingsong app is released, which can use all the functions of FW, which, as far as I know, is not yet available.Or he need more time find answer. I feel the need to write something positive here so as not to touch the oppressive and hypersensitive people who without political correctness and moral police
feels affected when things are called by their real names.🦄  (Please do not quote this post, if you agree, press  heart. If you do not agree, please do nothing thx. Let's not break up the discussion that sticks to the topic 👍🏻 )

------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------- --------

We still have to think (by kingsong) that 1.07 = 2.02 (+ function) so everyone you say that KS16X behaves otherwise(on2.02) you are "liars" and you "lie" about it and it's just in your "heads". Because nothing has officially changed 1.07 = 2.02 This is the official standpoint of the Kning Song (this sentence under second line is meant in humor and exaggeration and irony) 👻

-(blame google translator if you don't understand this post) and enjoy you KS16X like i do!🚀

[travsformation]

On the topic of firmware upgrades/downgrades, I know there are a lot of Android users out there who don't have access to the SoftTuner app and are probably curious about all that's being discussed in this thread  so I finally got my ass in gear and made a tutorial on firmware upgrades/downgrades using EUC World. As Mike Sacristan has said in several occasions, firmware upgrades/downgrades are a simple process that takes 5 minutes, so if you don't like your new firmware, you can go back to whatever you had before. 

And if you you're worried about bricking your wheel, don't be---I've tried my best and failed, the process is fool-proof/travsformation-proof, and I personally trust EUC World way more than I trust the official [text missing] app 
 

 

[stephen]

5 hours ago, travsformation said:

On the topic of firmware upgrades/downgrades, I know there are a lot of Android users out there who don't have access to the SoftTuner app

There is an Android version just log in as guest, I've uploaded mine if anyone can't find it 👍👍

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1nzcv4apsvz3em/softtuner.apk?dl=0

👍👍

Edited May 23, 2020 by stephen

[alex5454]

guys I have a 16x ks purchased in September 19 I have the 1.0.7

recommended to upgrade to 2.02 the app tells me that I can there are contraindications?

there is a new version app V3.3.11

[stephen]

2 minutes ago, alex5454 said:

there is a new version app V3.3.11

I get that all the time even though it never downloads it , I've even been to kingsong vendor and downloaded the newest now I just ignore it

[alex5454]

Ok I tried not to make the upgrade from 1.0.7 to 2.02, says the app upgrade but then does nothing.

Update: I changed from wifi to mobile network is updating ... to 2.02

Edited May 23, 2020 by alex5454

[stephen]

8 minutes ago, alex5454 said:

Ok I tried not to make the upgrade from 1.0.7 to 2.02, says the app upgrade but then does nothing.

Don't upgrade the app, but just upgrade the firmware to 2.02, which app are you using kingsong or kingsong softtuner?