Firmware 2.02 for KS16X

[mrelwood]

No experience on fw 2.0 on 16X, but based on what I’ve read, the behavior is very similar to 18XL, so this should be worth a read:

 

 

[SamSuffit]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

BTW, this is completely off-topic,  but @Seba has asked Jack Kingsong about the possibility of muting KS wheels' confirmation beeps (when connecting to the wheel, making changes in the app, etc.) in future FW upgrades but there are currently only 7 users following the thread where the request was posted. I imagine there are MANY of us who'd love to be able to mute them (to not wake up the the entire household when leaving home in the morning, to not draw (even more) attention to ourselves when at a restaurant/café, etc., to not get caught when sneaking out to the pub... ), so this is a good chance for KS users to show our support for this very desirable, age-old request!

To do so, simply follow this link and like Seba's post. No more, no less.

Please refrain from adding additional requests, tagging Jack (which I've deliberately avoided doing in this post), asking him questions, complaining about issues (including the beeps! ), making accusations, etc. We're very fortunate to have a KS representative in the forum so there's a direct channel with the manufacturer, but remember that it's just one person, he can't keep up with the questions and requests of an entire forum, so please let mods and app developers channel requests so we don't overwhelm him. So to reiterate, I'm only asking you to like Seba's post (nothing more!) if you would like to be able to mute the beeps on your KS wheels.  

I hate the beeps, but which Seba's post are you refering to? There is not mention of any beeps in his posts.

[travsformation]

2 minutes ago, SamSuffit said:

I hate the beeps, but which Seba's post are you refering to? There is not mention of any beeps in his posts.

I split the topic to a new one, but didn't correct the link in my post fast enough. Should work now. If not, you can find it here:

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by travsformation

[DannyK]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:44 PM, travsformation said:

I think I speak for everyone when I say "Video or it didn't happen"  

I entirely agree that a lot of constructive advice has been given, FW downgrading being a perfectly viable solution. 

As to @DannyK, he hasn't yet replied to the suggestions given on the subject. I think everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt before jumping to conclusions 

I havent got a soft tuner app that can allow me to downgrade, and neither do my dealer have one for the android phones so unless I meet up with someone with iphone I cannot try any other firmwares except for 1.07 on euc world which Im not considering to go for. Why would you suggest it when there seems nothing better with the torque with that firmware compared to 1.08. I want to try 1.05 but that is not a viable option for me just yet.

On 5/6/2020 at 11:05 AM, Nimbus2000 said:

Lol I can make the "taking-a-shit squat look good... as for @DannyK you seem insistently unsatisfied even with several viable solutions in front of you. Just pick a firmware you like and if you still aren't happy with your 16x then you picked the wrong wheel. Otherwise it's easy to assume you are blaming your lack of technical skill and ability to adapt on kingsong's firmware

Stop those sarcasms already. Was there any words in my post saying that I hated the 16x because of it? I think I even uploaded a posting about how nice I felt about this wheel compared to my previous wheel apart from the deceleration? I was simply stating that the braking is stiffer and suggested there could be changes in the future FW, where is the problem in that? And again, IT WASNT JUST ME but quite a few others that ride 16x on 1.08 in my community mentioned the slower deceleration. 

Also if you dont know whether everyone have access to that 'viable options' than dont blame them for asking for improvements on official updated FW. And Kingsong never intended to allow downgrades possible before my insistent postings, but still that is limited on iphone soft tuner app which isnt an official app. Android, it is not possible. There is no one that is close to me that has iphone for me to get access to 1.05 for now and I have no reason to go back to 1.07 thru euc world when the torque on that FW doesnt seem any better.

Ive been riding this thing around about 400km now and yes I can manage that hard brakes and I do know what that shit taking squat means since I have to throw my body back while gripping the wheel in that more tighter squatting position to fast brake on this wheel, but it is true that the pedal feels noticeably stiffer or resisting on 16x while decelerarting compared to my msx and it isnt just because of the shape difference in how to grip the wheel. Also in theory as someone mentioned above, 16 incher wheel isnt suppose to feel slower to brake compared to 18 inchers and I dont think that should be the case especially if they have better acceleration.

Edited May 12, 2020 by DannyK

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

@DannyK

I haven't read everything about your problem, or if it has been mentioned several times, but have you ever tested the soft mode?

I have board 1.5 with firmware 1.0.7 and in soft mode I get the best acceleration and braking performance.

[Seba]

6 hours ago, DannyK said:

I want to try 1.05 but that is not a viable option for me just yet.

Why? It's just a simple, two-step operation that will take less than 10 minutes:

1. Start EUC World and downgrade to 1.07.
2. After downgrading to 1.07 you will be able to dowgrade to 1.05.

Don't forget to recalibrate your wheel after downgrading and review wheel settings.

[travsformation]

3 hours ago, Seba said:

Why? It's just a simple, two-step operation that will take less than 10 minutes:

1. Start EUC World and downgrade to 1.07.
2. After downgrading to 1.07 you will be able to dowgrade to 1.05.

Don't forget to recalibrate your wheel after downgrading and review wheel settings.

I didn't realize this was an option and that downgrades had to be decremental. When I decided I wanted to try 1.05 after upgrading to 2.02, EUC.W offered 1.07 so I figured 1.05 wasn't available and used SoftTuner instead. Why didn't I just ask...? 

[Seba]

3 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I didn't realize this was an option and that downgrades had to be decremental. When I decided I wanted to try 1.05 after upgrading to 2.02, EUC.W offered 1.07 so I figured 1.05 wasn't available and used SoftTuner instead. Why didn't I just ask...? 

We live and learn 

[travsformation]

22 minutes ago, Seba said:

We live and learn 

I'm known to stumble on the same rock multiple times... 

[travsformation]

 @mrelwood you have a point on pedal stiffness in 2.02, now I get why acceleration always feels better but braking sometimes feels better and sometimes worse! The pedals are definitely stiffer in hard mode! 

The first day I went to test 2.02 was my first decent ride in over 50 days, so I was riding very aggressively, putting a lot of intent into everything (like an animal just released from a cage), and when aggressively power-braking, 2.02 felt like it had more of a bite, an instant reaction. After reading that people found that braking was worse, I wondered what the hell they were talking about...On a more tame ride, I started to get what they were saying: on one hand there's a sense that initial braking input is more responsive, but on the other, it takes more effort to sustain. I couldn't quite put my finger on it...

I'm on 1.05 on the 16X ATM, but I experienced the same exact thing on the 18XL (FW 2.02) yesterday, and having read your comments, I agree the hard mode is definitely harder. For acceleration, this is a good thing, for braking...it depends. In hard mode, it initially feels more responsive when braking aggressively (I'm not too sure braking non-aggressively is even an option in hard mode on this FW ), but it takes much more effort to maintain the same level of braking. Or as @Tinkererboi put it, you really have to commit and sink your heels down to get the same effect.

In medium mode there isn't as much initial ooomph to the braking, it isn't quite as immediate, but once you lean back, the wheel allows you to do so and once it starts braking, it feels like it does so faster; it's more of an incremental, springy, cushy braking---definitely more comfortable. I can see the advantages to both depending on one's riding style (hard mode is definitely more of a work out, but is also fun for aggressive riders)

I can't confirm 100% this is the case with the 16X (and am quite happy playing around with 1.05 ATM), but it very much feels like it. IMHO, the 16X already has plenty of torque as it is, so for most users, I don't think it benefits all that much from the easier acceleration of stiffer pedals, and don't feel it's worth the payoff in terms of braking. Personally, I always ride in hard mode, and I think the hard mode in 1.07 was just right. I haven't tried medium mode on the 16X on 2.02, but if it's like the 18XL, it's probably also softer than I like it. It's a matter of preference, but overall, I think 1.07 was a more balanced FW.

But hey, we have plenty of options to choose from, and experimenting with them all is great fun!  

[DjPanJan]

In my test FWs 2.02 is close to 1.07 with one big difference. 2.02 CRY/Beeps (propably incrased safety margin )  under my weight 🐷🦖 4 beeps caution overpower often. I got caution overpower + 4 beeps  if i try start ride in against small asphalt incline this never remember before on any FW in past. 

. Shure i am on HARD pedal always. Maybee is just 2.02 renamed 1.07 with updated features and everything what i say/experienced is placebo. The truth is out there!🛸👽

Actualy i stay on 1.07 is best for v1.5 board (my opinion my feel)

Same with "speed" +-35 km/h if i acelerate beep overpower i never hear overpower alarm on 1.05 or 1.07 (i speak about board 1.5) 

For me board 1.5 and FW 1.05 braking is terrible. Im curious you can ride this combination.

Board v1.4 fw 1.05 amazing braking aceleration no caution overpower and i hear 4 beeps only 3 times in hundrets km.(yes i miss hard my "old" KS16X)  

I want be part of kingsong FW tester group because i think they no have 120kg 188Cm foot size 45 full geared persons in China

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by DjPanJan
edit

[travsformation]

1 minute ago, DjPanJan said:

In my test FWs 2.02 is close to 1.07 with one big difference. 2.02 CRY under my weight 🐷🦖 4 beeps caution overpower often. I got caution overpower + 4 beeps  if i try start ride this never hapend before on any FW in past on flat asphalt and no i no try hard push or acelerate just put my 45 size foot on pedal and move weight front and 16X 2.02 CRY hard . Shure i am on HARD pedal always.

Maybe be cause changes in acceleration are more noticeable with the harder pedal mode? Have you given medium pedal mode a try?

2 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

Actualy i stay on 1.07 is best for v1.5 board (my opinion my feel)

I agree

2 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

For me board 1.5 and FW 1.05 braking is terrible. Im curious you can ride this combination.

Maybe the softer pedals make leaning back easier? @Mike Sacristan doesn't think the brakes on 1.05 are great either, I must be weird...

3 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

I want be part of kingsong FW tester group because i think they no have 120kg 188Cm foot size 45 full geared persons in China

But you are beta-testing! (Just in the unofficial Europe group!). If you want to join the Chinese you'll be alpha-testing, and based on your comments, that might be dangerous for you... 

[DjPanJan]

Now is in softuner FW 2.02 description is only app rated you can rewrite here @travsformation

all FW have description now in softuner just for info

i try 2.02 again now i go ride and test medium VS hard .

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by DjPanJan

[travsformation]

9 hours ago, DjPanJan said:

Now is in softuner FW 2.02 description is only app rated you can rewrite here @travsformation

all FW have description now in softuner just for info

i try 2.02 again now i go ride and test medium VS hard .

Thanks! Let us know what you think of hard vs. soft and how it compares to 1.07

Edited May 12, 2020 by travsformation

[travsformation]

Firmware 2.02 release notes:

• Adapt APP to adjust the front and rear declination 
• Adapt APP to adjust left and right shutdown angle
• All production fault codes are sent to the APP to facilitate users to lock down the problems
• Join the total riding time and send it to the APP
• Optimize charging management. Resume charging after the power drops if do not unplug the charger for a long time.
• The shutdown time can be adjusted in the app

No mention of changes to torque algorithms, pedal hardness, etc. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

16 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Adapt APP to adjust left and right shutdown angle

Did you tried this function? 

That would be a reason to update to 2.0.2.

[Mike Sacristan]

14 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Did you tried this function? 

That would be a reason to update to 2.0.2.

Damn... imagine if they allow down to 30 degrees.
Then I could ride bowls at the skate park and if I drop the wheel it would spin itself to death. 

[stephen]

40 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Firmware 2.02 release notes:

• Adapt APP to adjust the front and rear declination 
• Adapt APP to adjust left and right shutdown angle
• All production fault codes are sent to the APP to facilitate users to lock down the problems
• Join the total riding time and send it to the APP
• Optimize charging management. Resume charging after the power drops if do not unplug the charger for a long time.
• The shutdown time can be adjusted in the app

No mention of changes to torque algorithms, pedal hardness, etc. 

I like the update gives us some flexibility 👍

[travsformation]

7 hours ago, buell47 said:

Did you tried this function? 

That would be a reason to update to 2.0.2.

I would if there were a way to configure it.

I downloaded the most recent version of SoftTuner (1.1.7) and the KS app (3.3.9), and neither of them offer an option to configure this... 

I guess the sentence "Adapt APP to adjust left and right shutdown angle" means the FW can accept parameter changes from the app, but a new (adapted) app version will be required to do so. The release notes actually look more like the developers' to-do list than release notes...  

Edited May 13, 2020 by travsformation

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

5 hours ago, travsformation said:

I guess the sentence "Adapt APP to adjust left and right shutdown angle" means the FW can accept parameter changes from the app, but a new (adapted) app version will be required to do so. The release notes actually look more like the developers' to-do list than release notes

That's exactly why I asked, because that was my fear.  I didn't find this function in the app and a firmware update doesn't conjure this function into the app. 

[DannyK]

23 hours ago, buell47 said:

@DannyK

I haven't read everything about your problem, or if it has been mentioned several times, but have you ever tested the soft mode?

I have board 1.5 with firmware 1.0.7 and in soft mode I get the best acceleration and braking performance.

yes I did. soft mode is a bit better indeed but it feels to a bit too dipped time to time when accelerating so I intend to stay on riding mode. Hard mode is just too tiring for the feet.

[DannyK]

22 hours ago, Seba said:

Why? It's just a simple, two-step operation that will take less than 10 minutes:

1. Start EUC World and downgrade to 1.07.
2. After downgrading to 1.07 you will be able to dowgrade to 1.05.

Don't forget to recalibrate your wheel after downgrading and review wheel settings.

damn I didnt know it worked like that Im gonna try right away. 

[DannyK]

Btws 2.02 has been fully released on the app and I decided to try it out thinking there wont be any difference from 1.08. But surprisingly I felt quite a bit of difference. So far as I feel it, 2.02 makes the pedals a bit stiffer and somehow gives it a feeling that 16x is a little more heavier wheel now. In other words, pedal tries to stay more level. Before, pedal movement was more dynamic tilting up and dowm according to situations like short turns or acceleration, giving it a feeling that the wheel is lighter. However there seems to be no much difference in acceleration speed and brakes. It seems to require a little more push to accelerate and with deceleration it doesnt seem to have much change from 1.08. 

Noticeable difference: 

1. pedal stiffness

2. pedal slightly leveling up every time making shorturns seems to be reduced quite a bit with 2.02 compared to 1.08.

All in all, 2.02 gives a feeling the wheel is more solid. Which to some might feel better, but to some maybe not. Im starting to think KS possibly? gave a little more agility of 1.05 that ppl talk about on 1.08 but adjusted it back to 1.07 style with 2.02? seeing from the review of few that just upgraded to 2.02 from 1.07. I have no idea now. And as Ive read that some say with the new motherboard v1.5 FW 1.05 feels even worse, so i dont know if I should try it out.

Edited May 13, 2020 by DannyK

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

11 minutes ago, DannyK said:

yes I did. soft mode is a bit better indeed but it feels to a bit too dipped time to time when accelerating so I intend to stay on riding mode. Hard mode is just too tiring for the feet.

Yes, that's true. That's the only reason why I switch sometimes from soft to medium mode. Hard mode never since new Control Board V1.5. 

[DjPanJan]

18 hours ago, travsformation said:

Thanks! Let us know what you think of hard vs. soft and how it compares to 1.07

 I try yesterday field test 1.07 vs 2.02 hard mode ( feel very similar i can confirm 2.02 warning me 4 beeps or caution overpower often compare to 1.07) you can have various feel/results  important is make good calibration after FW change. Other person help me blind test FW 1.07 and 2.02 objectively on hard pedal i not recognize what is what. 

Person/rider try make fake  me 3x same FW 2.02(i dont know this) only change he made was calibration. (he not update FW just make calibration 3x from hand not precise) and i say 1.07 2.02 1.07 nope all time same fw 2.02 but calibration can make hudge diference in  "feel". After all this i prefer precise calibrated 1.07. 

Soft mode i try slalom around concrete cones near big shopping park. Results 1.07 usable for me not ideal turning compare to hard mode for shure. After FW change to 2.02 i go test again and firstime in my life i hit concrete cone because 16x not react in time this soft mode "lag" make me hit pedal/footplate and i fall to my hands front now i can use my right hand and shoulder with pain it was 6km/h "crash only" no drama just pain.  For traveling is both 1.07 and 2.02 soft mode nice smooth ride i am not adapted to use soft in precise turning etc.

I 100% respect riders who prefer medium or soft mode is about where and how is EUC used.

Medium  pedal mode is good compromise maybee 2.02 feel harder compared to 1.07.

In theory i can say 2.02 is "too hard on hard mode"

But after blind test results. Calibration is key maybee is 1.07 same like 2.02 only diffrence is how good/precise you calibrate i was shocked how big difference calibration make.

 

------------------------------------------      

⏬⏬⏬ In the attached topic are the results I stand for, it's not just impressions and theories like yesterday's field test.(all FW was tested after high precise calibration) ⏬⏬⏬