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Slartibartfast

MSS vs MSP

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Posted (edited)

What exactly is this MSS every body is gushing over?

It just seems to be a $550 upgrade option of the MSP made by EucService where by they increase the battery capacity from 1800Wh to 2250Wh. Is there anything more to it?

Don't get me wrong, additional battery capacity is always welcome but a 450Wh batt. bump hardly seems that big a deal, or am I missing something??

Edited by Slartibartfast

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I thought the other main selling point was the ability to do 47mph...

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1 minute ago, Planemo said:

I thought the other main selling point was the ability to do 47mph...

How does it do that?

As in, what's actually different about the MSS that enables it to go 47mph? I just can't see it: 🤷‍♂️

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I think they put a different motor in it.  It’s not the GotWay motor. Go watch the Wrongway! Video:  I think he explains it there somewhere.

 

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I have watched it and that's what got me wondering.

I have also watched all of these videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2RaB95OJ2j3-o-JJubz0qw/search?query=MSS

 

As I say, there seem to be no shortage of people gushing over this supposed "sport" upgrade but for my money I can't actually tell what the difference is???

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Yes, I have read that thread as well but came off none the wiser so thought I'd start a different thread to ask exactly what the differences between these two wheels was.

 

Quote

It's simply a different electric motor.

I did see some people say that but again I just can't find any actual differences. It's all well and good to say they have a "better" motor but until I can tell what the difference is I'm not going to be convinced. Certainly EucService's own web sight doesn't do anything to support this.

 

According to their own site the $450 supposedly includes:

Quote
Please add MSS to basket.
Please add additional products from warranty and modification tabs:
Monster pedals,
Laser notification,
extend battery 450Wh 100V to get MSS 2250Wh 100V,
extend warranty in EUCservice, (warranty tab)
You get 1month warranty from EUCservice and 11 months from GotWay factory for motor, mainboard and six months for battery.
Please finish order,
You ordered Msuper Pro 1800Wh 100V, wait for your invoice and pay by PayPal or on bank account directly to  GotWay factory.
MSP is sent directly to EUCservice. Parameters will be changed to MSS, and we send to you vat invoice for modification. You pay the rest.
Price on site is total price for MSS after conversion and includes door to door shipping free of charge.

Which is only more baffling???

By "Please add MSS to basket." I assume they mean "Add to Cart" but when you do that there are no "tabs", (or at lease none that I could find) and reading these so call spec lists it only really says "different pedals", "Silly lazer thing" (that doesn't really work) and the aforementioned "450Wh" batt. increase. What am I missing??

If it has an upgraded motor I'm all in for that but I can't find any details as to what this supposed upgraded motor consists of, hence why I'm asking.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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17 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

I did see some people say that but again I just can't find any actual differences. It's all well and good to say they have a "better" motor but until I can tell what the difference is I'm not going to be convinced.

You aren't convinced the MSX and MSP actually use a different motor?

You can lead a horse to water...

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Oh no, I am convinced the MSX and MSP have different motors. I mean one's a 2000W motor and the other is 2500W (or possibly even 2600W depending on who you ask). It also has a wider casing to house the wider housing. They are clearly different motors.

What I am wanting to know is what is the difference between the MSP and MSS motors. I'm more than willing to accept there is a difference, I just want to know what it is, because so far as I can find it's not listed in the actual specs.

It's a fair question is it not?

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Right, fair point that more clarification from the sellers is always helpful.

I think eWheels is having Gotway build the MSP chassis with the MSX motor.
I'm not an insider, so I can't prove it.

I can't know if EUC Service is doing the same, or just a similar variation.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

I think eWheels is having Gotway build the MSP chassis with the MSX motor.
I'm not an insider, so I can't prove it.

What?? That sounds like a terrible idea!

The coolest thing about the MSP is that gorgeous 2500W motor. Why on earth would you take that out?
And will the MSX motor even fit in a MSP shell? I mean the MSP shell was redesigned specifically to house the wider/fatter 2500W motor or at least that's what I thought).

I can understand upgrading the MSP's 2500W motor with a supposedly even better 2500W motor, but retrofitting a MSX motor in there just seems daft.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

If you want the wheel to spin faster, you must either put a higher-voltage battery, or change the motor to a lower-torque design.

MSS did the 2nd one.

 

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I doubt the shell is any different at all, although the side panels are to accomodate the 21700 cells.

The MSX motor is built (wound) for speed. The MSP motor is wound for torque. One isnt better than the other, or any less 'new'. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I doubt the shell is any different at all, although the side panels are to accomodate the 21700 cells.

The MSX motor is built (wound) for speed. The MSP motor is wound for torque. One isnt better than the other, or any less 'new'. 

Really? The MSX motor is a 2000W motor that came to market over a year ago where as the MSP is a 2500W motor that isn't really available quite yet, and from what I understand it has different physical dimensions. Are you saying I've misunderstood this somehow?

 

You guys don't mean "MSS" when you say "MSX" do you? It would make more sense if that is what you mean.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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Posted (edited)

MSS "MSuper Pro Speed" = MSP chassis MSX motor.

Come back tomorrow and re-read this thread, you'll get there.

And to sum it all up:
MSP (2500w motor) is the better choice for most people. More acceleration, more fun!
As you're discovering, the only attraction to MSS is cruising speed >35mph, and it makes sacrifices in acceleration to achieve it.

Edited by RagingGrandpa

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

MSS "MSuper Pro Speed" = MSP chassis MSX motor.

Right, that makes a lot more sense.

When you were saying MSX motor I thought you were referring to the motor in the MSX (as in the MSuper X's motor).

I was referring to the:
MSuper X as MSX
MSuper Pro as the MSP
MSuper Sport as the MSS

Which is why I was confused when you were saying they were putting a MSX motor in a MSP. Putting a MSS motor in a MSP makes perfect sense though.

Any reason we're referring to a MSS's motor as "MSX"? That just seems confusing.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Any reason we're referring to a MSS's motor as "MSX"? That just seems confusing.

Only because these are commodity parts...

Nomenclature:
An EUC is an assembly of a few major components:
+ Chassis: battery pack, controller, blinky lights, plastic shell to support it all
+ Motor assembly: wheel rim, rotor, stator, axle (integrated with pedals and their mounts)

The 2000w motor assembly in question first appeared in the Gotway MSX.
So, what does the community call that 2000w motor assembly? "The MSX motor."

It directly fits the MSP chassis (with no modification to either). In this combination, we call the finished & assembled EUC "MSS."
(Beware you shouldn't do this refit yourself, because Gotway loads firmware specific to the motor, and Gotway firmware is not user-reprogrammable. A mismatch between firmware and motor may operate but is poorly tuned and may fail in unpredictable ways.)

Edited by RagingGrandpa

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

The 2000w motor assembly in question first appeared in the Gotway MSX.
So, what does the community call that 2000w motor assembly? "The MSX motor."
It directly fits the MSP chassis (with no modification to either). In this combination, we call the finished & assembled EUC "MSS."

Oh, fascinating. So my understanding that the MSP motor is wider than the MSX motor is completely wrong is it? Wonder were I got that idea from.

I take it the MSX motor in the MSS is a 2500W motor as well though, yeah? Does it just become a 2500W by virtue of having current applied to it at 100V as apposed to 84V? As in did the 100V MSuper X effectively have a 2500W motor as well.

 

33 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

As you're discovering, the only attraction to MSS is cruising speed >35mph, and it makes sacrifices in acceleration to achieve it.

 

Right. Well the higher cruising speed and the additional 450Wh in batt. capacity.

Is the additional batt. capacity linked to the wheel's motor in any way? As in would it be possible to have the same 2250Wh battery with the more "torquey" 2500W motor? That sounds like the best option of all.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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18 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

my understanding that the MSP motor is wider than the MSX motor

^ that's correct. MSP motor is wider than the MSX motor.

Practically, this size difference doesn't matter, because the chassis is wide enough to accommodate either motor.
(The tire width is still greater than the motor width, so it's the tire size that is most critical when considering "will it fit?")
 

18 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Does it just become a 2500W by virtue of having current applied to it at 100V

No.

Like you originally thought- the motor is physically larger.
More specifically, it's the same stator (copper windings), but a wider rotor (permanent magnets). This gives a stronger magnetic field, and also gives the heat more space to dissipate.

The "continuous rated power" (2500W) of the motor does not change with regard to input voltage. If you installed a 150V pack, it would still only be a 2500W motor.
 

18 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Is the additional batt. capacity linked to the wheel's motor in any way?

No.

As we noted, voltage sets the maximum speed. Capacity does not.
 

18 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

would it be possible to have the same 2250Wh battery with the more "torquey" 2500W motor?

Of course!

Beware again the risks of aftermarket modification- Gotway does not currently produce a 2250wh MSP, and so you're relying on a 3rd-party to buy a new 1800wh MSP, open it up and modify its electrical system, and ship it to you afterwards. This can be done well, or done poorly- so do your homework with regard to understanding exactly how the 3rd-party's modification works (BMS!) and check prior user feedback with regard to durability.
 

1 minute ago, FreeRide said:

This thread has gone bananas.

At least the bananas are contained! :D

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

This thread has gone bananas.

Really? I thought it was just starting to make sense.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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9 minutes ago, johnyz89 said:

MSS is lighter than MSP so it has better acceleration

No.

Weight difference is marginal; motor difference is significant.
(Test it and measure it please.)

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, johnyz89 said:

Its neither MSX nor MSP motor, its something 'in between' around 2300W ( eucservice owner said it on polish forum). I think it may be some prototype motor which was never finally used in MSP.

Interesting.

After watching Wrong Way!'s video now for the 3rd time at 7:30 he does say the MSS has a motor of "around 2300W of nominal power". He then goes on to say they also upgrade the "MBS (or power supply)" and says it makes it even more torquy than the MSP.

Guess we'll have to wait and see some more comparison videos to see if Wrong Way!'s claims of being both "more torquy" and "having a higher top speed" are born out by other reviewers.

It will be interesting to see if EucService really have cracked the holy grail of increasing both –and doing so with a (slightly) lower rated motor. I for one an intrigued.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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