kingsong 16x's veiled 1.08 firmware update

[DannyK]

16x people,  I sent one of kingsong staff to ask about firmware update that few Korean users had to 1.08 and he confirmed that there has been an update and it can be done through the new app uploaded on kingsong website. Ive asked what has been changed from 1.07 but I have no idea why but the staff did not answer the question....

Pls any kingsong staff in this forum give me an answer about this veiled update.

1. Why doesnt everybody else in this forum knows about this update? Is this some kind of mistake or the staff I talked to has mistaken?

2. If there has been an update to 1.08, what has been changed?

Edited April 13, 2020 by DannyK

[WheelHOG]

I would wait and just use EUC world to update for future firmware

[travsformation]

@DannyK I just installed the most recent version of the KS app, and it tells me that my version (1.0.7) is the most recent, and as usual, asks me to confirm that I know it  

Either way, I'd rather wait until it's available via EUC World, the upgrade process is pretty much fail-proof, I don't trust the KS app...

[DannyK]

6 minutes ago, travsformation said:

@DannyK I just installed the most recent version of the KS app, and it tells me that my version (1.0.7) is the most recent, and as usual, asks me to confirm that I know it  

Either way, I'd rather wait until it's available via EUC World, the upgrade process is pretty much fail-proof, I don't trust the KS app...

Damn really Kingsong isnt doing their work properly here.. What are they beta testing the new firmware with the new batch users? These are customers that paid for huge load of money for that wheel. We deserve better service or at least some proper description before updating the firmware. One of the staff wouldnt even answer my questions related to this firmware. 

[travsformation]

10 minutes ago, DannyK said:

Damn really Kingsong isnt doing their work properly here.. What are they beta testing the new firmware with the new batch users? These are customers that paid for huge load of money for that wheel. We deserve better service or at least some proper description before updating the firmware. One of the staff wouldnt even answer my questions related to this firmware. 

Yeah, that's been their attitude about FW upgrades (and the buggy app) from the start...my advice is to use a third party app (EUC World for Android, DarknessBot for iOS). And as to firmware upgrades, stat clear when first released. Let other users who have access tools allowing them to roll back to previous FW be the ones who test the new versions so you don't risk bricking your wheel or installing a FW version you wish you hadn't installed 

[DannyK]

 

On 4/13/2020 at 9:17 PM, travsformation said:

Yeah, that's been their attitude about FW upgrades (and the buggy app) from the start...my advice is to use a third party app (EUC World for Android, DarknessBot for iOS). And as to firmware upgrades, stat clear when first released. Let other users who have access tools allowing them to roll back to previous FW be the ones who test the new versions so you don't risk bricking your wheel or installing a FW version you wish you hadn't installed 

Where could I download this EUC World app? The one on play store just seems similar to Wheellog so thats not it right?

Edited April 15, 2020 by DannyK

[Chriull]

19 minutes ago, DannyK said:

where do I do

Where could I download this EUC World app? The one on play store just seems similar to Wheellog so thats not it right?

That's the right one!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.lastowski.eucworld

 

[travsformation]

23 minutes ago, DannyK said:

The one on play store just seems similar to Wheellog so thats not it right?

It's a fork from WheelLog, but has mostly been re-written and has tons more functions (more info on the gauge, battery level dependent speed alarms, alarms over bluetooth audio, voice messages to inform you of speed, distance, etc, tour tracking, etc) 

[DannyK]

So here is the word from Jack from Kingsong. They are literally 'testing' this new 1.08 firmware to a few customers which I think are mainly the new or recent buyers with 16x. So they intentionally havent uncovered this firmware to everyone just yet. Wow really, why is that? Is there something that might be risky in this version of firmware and you want to see whether these few 'testing' customers gets issues with the new firmware? Now that makes me scared. We wont crash or cut out or something with the new one will we?

[WI_Hedgehog]

Personally, I wouldn't want to side-load an application on my phone, especially one from China given the security concerns we've seen with Chinese phone software.
(Note: The problem generally lies with the software author, not the software vendor, i.e. not King Song themselves but the company that writes their app for them.)

I agree, use the EUC World app written by @Seba and wait for the official update [then wait 2 months before installing it so you know it's stable]. The EUC World app is very well written and highly functional, plus configurable to individual needs.

[DannyK]

54 minutes ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

Personally, I wouldn't want to side-load an application on my phone, especially one from China given the security concerns we've seen with Chinese phone software.
(Note: The problem generally lies with the software author, not the software vendor, i.e. not King Song themselves but the company that writes their app for them.)

I agree, use the EUC World app written by @Seba and wait for the official update [then wait 2 months before installing it so you know it's stable]. The EUC World app is very well written and highly functional, plus configurable to individual needs.

I would love to do that but so unluckily Ive just purchased the wheel like 4days ago and waiting for it to be shipped which means it already has that 1.08 firmware installed in it and I cant roll back down to 1.07 if Im to find any issues. Thats what Im telling Jack right now to seriously consider making improvements on. Kingsong would make the new users or segmented customers to be their beta testers so that if they find any issues they are the only ones that should suffer until the fix without even a backup plan :/ I strongly suggest that We should AT LEAST have a BACKUP PLAN. 

[Seba]

52 minutes ago, DannyK said:

I would love to do that but so unluckily Ive just purchased the wheel like 4days ago and waiting for it to be shipped which means it already has that 1.08 firmware installed in it and I cant roll back down to 1.07 if Im to find any issues. Thats what Im telling Jack right now to seriously consider making improvements on. Kingsong would make the new users or segmented customers to be their beta testers so that if they find any issues they are the only ones that should suffer until the fix without even a backup plan :/ I strongly suggest that We should AT LEAST have a BACKUP PLAN. 

Downgrade feature will be added very soon to EUC World.

[Seba]

1 hour ago, DannyK said:

waiting for it to be shipped which means it already has that 1.08 firmware installed in it

I think you don't have to worry. KS never puts internal testing firmware into production wheels. Your wheel will have 1.07, I think Jack was talking about some "beta testers" that intentionally took part in new firmware testing program and didn't meant that some new users will take the role of beta testers. So don't be afraid

[DannyK]

46 minutes ago, Seba said:

I think you don't have to worry. KS never puts internal testing firmware into production wheels. Your wheel will have 1.07, I think Jack was talking about some "beta testers" that intentionally took part in new firmware testing program and didn't meant that some new users will take the role of beta testers. So don't be afraid

Im first to kingsong so I dunno about their past actions, but what he said to u about 'volunteers' is not true at all. Im a user in South Korea and I personally know 4 other users here that rides 16x and they all have this 1.08 update on their app and they sure did not volunteer to participate in any testing. One of them did not even know or care about what the firmwares do and just updated it because it popped up on his app and one just purchased the wheel a few days ago and found out it was 1.08. Well he also did not know anything about this being new firmware and all. 

So certainly it comes down to this. One is that kingsong is making Korean users(or country specific) + the new buyers use this app as beta testers, assuming from people that currently have this update. Or they are just simply putting this on radom number of ppl which I believe is unlikely seeing from the reaction on this forum. Either way If Jack told you it is being done on volunteers, Im truly very disappointed about this. 

Not that Im saying this firmware has any problems 'yet' but the ways they take this into action is just unacceptable. What if it does get problems? Do this non volunteery beta testers have to suffer until the fix? Why? We certainly didnt sign up or pay $1900 for this discrimination!

Well Jack said he will address my suggestions to kingsong members about allowing 'backup plans' to go back to previous versions in case there are to be any issues with new firmwares so I felt happy, but Jack what you are telling these people thats so NOT right.

Edited April 13, 2020 by DannyK

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Discrimination? Lot of people in the forum would be happy to get the newest firmware. Maybe some would pay for it. 

[Stillhart]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but is there a problem with 1.08 right now that's making you so upset about it?

[DannyK]

3 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Discrimination? Lot of people in the forum would be happy to get the newest firmware. Maybe some would pay for it. 

Well that is your perspective and not if its proven completely. Already quite a few ppl suffered from upgrading their firmware but not being able to downgrade because they didnt like it. And if they are confident they shouldve just released it fully rather than trying to see how things roll out with just segmentation of users. They could certainly feel bad about that especially when there is no backup plan yet to go back to previous firmwares! 

[DannyK]

3 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but is there a problem with 1.08 right now that's making you so upset about it?

No Im waiting to receive the wheel, its just upsetting to know how they are releasing this to few groups that they claim to have agreed to volunteer in trying this firmware, which is also not true at all.

Plus you know how some ppl did not like the feel of 1.7 so they rolled back to 1.5 but personally I cant do this here nor is my dealer. So I was definitely concerned about this new firmware that has no single feedbacks.

What I was trying so hard here was that they take this seriously and at least make a backup plan for users to roll back if they want to or find an issue with new firmwares. And this is something that some people suggested as well.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

5 minutes ago, DannyK said:

...if its proven completely

Are there still manufacturers today who do not abuse the end customer more or less as beta tester? 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

2 minutes ago, DannyK said:

So I was definitely concerned about this new firmware that has no single feedbacks

I can't remember if everyone who ordered a new wheel or anything else as one of the first ones makes such a drama? 

[DannyK]

24 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Are there still manufacturers today who do not abuse the end customer more or less as beta tester? 

And your point is that its a right thing to do then? Well to my knowledge usually they abuse the first batch customers with beta testing either hardware or software wise and people know that so well. Well do ppl like it? No. Do ppl keep telling them to change? Yes. Gotway is an example and theyve gone through quite a lot of change quality wise although there is still a lot more to be done.

Ive tried to appeal strongly for a backup plan in case things go sideways and Jack said he will address this suggestion to kingsong members as well. Do you not think that is a little progress? Customers just shutting up about something that doesnt seem right isnt right in my view. It wont get the companies take further steps.

Yes maybe Im taking this a little too sensatively with looong words but what you are saying there just makes you look no more than a big kingsong fanboy. They've taken this their terms of 'careful approach' of firmware update NOT in a right way. I addressed that problem so that they can do something about it i.e. allow firmware roll backs. Thats it. You just look like you are trying to shield them with no sensible logic to it.

Edited April 13, 2020 by DannyK

[DannyK]

5 hours ago, travsformation said:

It's a fork from WheelLog, but has mostly been re-written and has tons more functions (more info on the gauge, battery level dependent speed alarms, alarms over bluetooth audio, voice messages to inform you of speed, distance, etc, tour tracking, etc) 

Thanks alot! I have downloaded it. And Im glad to hear euc world is adding firmware rollback features too!

Edited April 13, 2020 by DannyK

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

17 minutes ago, DannyK said:

Yes maybe Im taking this a little too sensatively with looong words but what you are saying there just makes you look no more than a big kingsong fanboy. They've taken this their terms of 'careful approach' of firmware update NOT in a right way. I addressed that problem so that they can do something about it i.e. allow firmware roll backs. Thats it. You just look like you are trying to shield them with no sensible logic to it.

For sure not and if you would read all my post in the past, you wouldn't said that. 

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, DannyK said:

Either way If Jack told you it is being done on volunteers, Im truly very disappointed about this. 

They did internal testing, beta testing with volunteers and now since they are ok they deliver new wheels with this firmware. Since they seem to have now too the new ks app they will open it to public for update.

If you are absolutely unhappy with this your reseller should be able to help you out with the soft tuner app for downgrading.

Sorry, but i can't see here any discrimination or whatever other reason to be upset!?

[DjPanJan]

I'd simplify it like this @DannyK  he wants to say he would expect the ability to downgrade firmware like on a computer motherboard where as a customer you download bios / firmware from what date and type you want if it is compatible with your hardware and you can safely use it.

I also do not have a dealer in my country so a downgrade would cost me + - 100 euros / usd postage (back and forth together) plus the money for work.

I'd rather pay Kingsong for a 24h login rental and do it myself.

The drama around 1.08 too I do not understand.

I wish FW1.08 existed and made the KS16X more fun machine like  Inmotion do 2 driving modes Confort / FUN (1.05) or Classic / Battery save (1.07).

There are always things to improve The amazing example is the 18XL and the new FW 2.0 which was "revolutionary" made the engine quiet etc and came out years later and many riders like it.