Nikola 84v 1600Wh vs MSX 84v 1600Wh

[Stillhart]

So what's the practical difference between these two wheels?  They're both about the same price, both have the same motor and same batteries, and I'm heavily considering getting one, but I'm unclear on what the main differences are in how they behave, ergonomics, etc.  Can anyone give an objective breakdown on the pros and cons of one over the other? 

And please, let's keep the discussion centered around these two exact models specifically.  I'm not considering the 100V or different batteries, I'm just curious on an apples-to-apples comparison.  Thanks!!

[Jpd]

I would say go for the msx if you ride more off road. If not go for the Nikola. Of all my wheels I have the most time on the msx. It is fairly nimble, climbs well and is fast (but not to accelerate). That’s about all the positive things I can say about the msx.

The negative, it’s ugly, not comfortable, horrible trolley handle and looks cheap. I am new to the Nikola but, I love it! It’s fast, responsive, looks good, comfortable, has speakers and a better trolley handle. If you’re not gonna do a lot of off-road get the Nikola. Just my two cents 😏

[Rywokast]

its quite simple.. msx has a larger tire, it will always be a smoother ride and better for off road and absorbing imperfections.. nikola is a smaller wheel, it will have more torque and off the line speed/faster braking and be more nimble.. but the smaller tire will be less capable of dealing with imperfections. the ride of the two is actually very similar once you are actually moving as in on a smooth road they both behave quite similarly. now outwardly, the msx has a good handle to lift, the nikola has a horrible handle to lift, the msx has a useless trolley handle that barely functions, the nikola has a very functional trolley handle.. the msx plastic is thin and brittle and creeks/feels cheap.. the nikola shell is of a much higher quality and feels more premium.. side by side the msx is actually more compact, especially seeing as it is the one with the bigger tire, however its ergonomics are terrible and pedals are not as good.. takes a lot longer to get used to, where the nikola is quite comfortable albeit fat and slightly taller.. however the price between the two makes up for this difference in quality of components.. any wheel can do anything you want it to but as with everything there is always compromise so whatever your primary use case is going to be base your decision off of that.. if you ride primarily off road the msx is definitely safer, if you ride on horrible pot hole ridden roads the msx is definitely safer... if you are primarily going on smooth pavement and clean trails then the nikola is definitely more comfortable.. appearance and ergonomics are a personal preference its hard to say without you trying both but thats my opinion.. neither will leave you lacking in any regard they just have different strong suits

[Rywokast]

i love ecodrifts technoblog for their detailed teardowns.. here you can see the superior (thats a relative term here) build quality and ergonomics of the nikola in these two different wheels up close

 

https://ecodrift.ru/2018/12/29/gotway-nikola-disassembling-english-version/

https://ecodrift.ru/2018/07/03/gotway-msuperx-kachestvo-ne-stanovitsya-luchshe/

Edited April 13, 2020 by Rywokast

[Stillhart]

Thanks, I'm definitely going to be riding more street and paved trails so it sounds like the Nik is probably more my style.

[Stillhart]

Nik 84 is on the way!  <3

[Rywokast]

3 hours ago, Stillhart said:

Nik 84 is on the way!  <3

awesome, where did you get it from?

[Stillhart]

3 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

awesome, where did you get it from?

Got it from Jason at eWheels.  The customer support I have been getting from them is superb.  The reputation is well-deserved!

[Rywokast]

Just now, Stillhart said:

Got it from Jason at eWheels.  The customer support I have been getting from them is superb.  The reputation is well-deserved!

oh good glad to hear it, ewheels is the best of course  im just warning you now though youre coming from a ninebot one.. however big you think the nikola is, its bigger  though it makes little difference when riding.. oh and when you get it if you are wanting to use the pads just tape them on temporarily dont use the included double sided until youre absolutely positive of the positioning, because re positioning can often damage or destroy pads and the adhesive residue is a pain in the ass to remove from that sexy shell

[Stillhart]

1 minute ago, Rywokast said:

oh good glad to hear it, ewheels is the best of course  im just warning you now though youre coming from a ninebot one.. however big you think the nikola is, its bigger  though it makes little difference when riding.. oh and when you get it if you are wanting to use the pads just tape them on temporarily dont use the included double sided until youre absolutely positive of the positioning, because re positioning can often damage or destroy pads and the adhesive residue is a pain in the ass to remove from that sexy shell

Yeah, it looks huge and I'm fully expecting it to be way bigger than I even expect.  lol

And thanks for the tip on the pads.  I've been thinking about whether to add them or not.  Adding them temporarily isn't a bad idea.  Any other tips are welcome!  :-D

[Rywokast]

5 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

Yeah, it looks huge and I'm fully expecting it to be way bigger than I even expect.  lol

And thanks for the tip on the pads.  I've been thinking about whether to add them or not.  Adding them temporarily isn't a bad idea.  Any other tips are welcome!  :-D

hmm not really, the nikola is a pretty trouble free wheel.. now. maybe just prepare your eardrums for the onslaught of the startup shriek

[Stillhart]

2 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

hmm not really, the nikola is a pretty trouble free wheel.. now. maybe just prepare your eardrums for the onslaught of the startup shriek

Haha, I watched Marty's video about swapping the speakers to tame the shriek.  Seems like a worthy mod!  lol

[Rywokast]

also expect the side stickers to peel off, and generally you want to turn off in the app level 1 and 2 alarm and most people turn off tiltback because for one its terrible doesnt work a lot of the time and two can be easily overpowered causing an unnecessary spike in power.. so better to turn it off, you cant disable the 80% alarm so no need to worry about that

[Rywokast]

4 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

Haha, I watched Marty's video about swapping the speakers to tame the shriek.  Seems like a worthy mod!  lol

lmao, well apparently because of gotways horrible QC some have been lucky enough to receive wheels without it lol.. a much better mod is a delay (cant remember the exact name) that shunts power to it for ten seconds so you never hear it but you still have full speaker functionality.. i just unplugged mine lol takes one minute and ive never once used euc speakers so dont need it

Edited April 13, 2020 by Rywokast

[Stillhart]

36 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

lmao, well apparently because of gotways horrible QC some have been lucky enough to receive wheels without it lol.. a much better mod is a delay (cant remember the exact name) that shunts power to it for ten seconds so you never hear it but you still have full speaker functionality.. i just unplugged mine lol takes one minute and ive never once used euc speakers so dont need it

Ooh, now that's a good idea.  I've got some spare electronic parts laying around along with some breadboard.  I'm sure I can put something together given a spec.  I'll look around, thx!

[Stillhart]

39 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

also expect the side stickers to peel off, and generally you want to turn off in the app level 1 and 2 alarm and most people turn off tiltback because for one its terrible doesnt work a lot of the time and two can be easily overpowered causing an unnecessary spike in power.. so better to turn it off, you cant disable the 80% alarm so no need to worry about that

So how do oyu know when you're hitting your limit?  The alarm goes off at 80% of what?

[Rywokast]

8 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

So how do oyu know when you're hitting your limit?  The alarm goes off at 80% of what?

yes it will furiously beep at you.. thats not the limit people actually "ride the beep" constantly all the time... its a dumb thing to do and im not sure how the non stop beeping doesnt drive them nuts but to each their own lol, thats the 80% alarm  but there are a slew of alarms you cant turn off so youll know if something is wrong, and if you hear the speed alarm just slow down a bit, nothing is gonna happen.. heres the speed table.. if you have a smart watch thats good or even just using your phone with euc world app you can set it to trigger your phones vibration (or watches) so you dont have to worry about not hearing them

edit: duh.. just noticed nikola isnt on there lmao its similar to msx definitely over 50 but can vary depending on your weight and the terrain and of course battery level.. if youre geared up i suggest you hit it and see what it is for you, unless you dont plan on going over 50 then dont worry about it

Edited April 13, 2020 by Rywokast

[mrelwood]

 

8 hours ago, Rywokast said:

most people turn off tiltback because for one its terrible doesnt work a lot of the time and two can be easily overpowered causing an unnecessary spike in power.. so better to turn it off, you cant disable the 80% alarm so no need to worry about that

I'm not sure if most people do, but previously if you wanted to ride faster than 50km/h, you had no choice. Luckily now you can set the tilt-back to a higher value as well with both DarknessBot and EUC World. 

Some people still think that the tilt-back may cause an overlean by itself, which hasn't been confirmed to be the case. More importantly, the suggested scenario is such that the rider couldn't save from turning into an overlean anyway. This idea has been spreading mouth to mouth for years, and besides being redundant especially for modern Gotways for the last 2-3 years, I think it is a dangerous one.

I think the GW tilt-back works marvellously well, and I've never heard of a situation where it wouldn't "work". And since it's a smooth one unlike that of KS, it definitely doesn't cause a power spike of any sort.

Except for ignorance, I see no reason not to use it as the final safety measure, at any speed you want to set it. I'd trust my safety conscious butt on the GW tilt-back any day.

7 hours ago, Stillhart said:

Ooh, now that's a good idea.  I've got some spare electronic parts laying around along with some breadboard.  I'm sure I can put something together given a spec.  I'll look around, thx!

There are $2 relay circuits that delay connecting the speaker cables with the NE555-circuit. If you're familiar with the 555, making one yourself should be pretty trivial. The one with the red circuit board is the one that has been used for the Nikola, as it has directly usable connectors:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=555+delay&_sacat=0&_sop=15

[Rywokast]

35 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

I'm not sure if most people do, but previously if you wanted to ride faster than 50km/h, you had no choice. Luckily now you can set the tilt-back to a higher value as well with both DarknessBot and EUC World. 

Some people still think that the tilt-back may cause an overlean by itself, which hasn't been confirmed to be the case. More importantly, the suggested scenario is such that the rider couldn't save from turning into an overlean anyway. This idea has been spreading mouth to mouth for years, and besides being redundant especially for modern Gotways for the last 2-3 years, I think it is a dangerous one.

I think the GW tilt-back works marvellously well, and I've never heard of a situation where it wouldn't "work". And since it's a smooth one unlike that of KS, it definitely doesn't cause a power spike of any sort.

Except for ignorance, I see no reason not to use it as the final safety measure, at any speed you want to set it. I'd trust my safety conscious butt on the GW tilt-back any day.

There are $2 relay circuits that delay connecting the speaker cables with the NE555-circuit. If you're familiar with the 555, making one yourself should be pretty trivial. The one with the red circuit board is the one that has been used for the Nikola, as it has directly usable connectors:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=555+delay&_sacat=0&_sop=15

really.... well youre right i am going by word of mouth, and ive never heard a single account of anyone using tiltback at above 48.. i guess the last ive really heard about it was in the days where the msuper v3 was king and before that, i was under the impression gotways firmware prevented a tiltback higher than 48 so i stand corrected.. i would however bet on it that yes most people disable the tiltback, perhaps for that same reason

Edited April 14, 2020 by Rywokast

[mrelwood]

17 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

really.... well youre right i am going by word of mouth, and ive never heard a single account of anyone using tiltback at above 48.. i guess the last ive really heard about it was in the days where the msuper v3 was king and before that,

Exactly. Word of mouth is very hard to silence, even if someone would prove it wrong with a perfect test rig.

The option to set the tilt-back higher than 48km/h has only been there for a few months or so.

Quote

i was under the impression gotways firmware prevented a tiltback higher than 48

I guess the limit is just in the GW app. I just confirmed that the latest DarknessBot can set the tilt-back up to 69km/h (84V MSX, so no point in real life...), and confirmed with a lift test that it indeed works.

Quote

so i stand corrected.. i would however bet on it that yes most people disable the tiltback, perhaps for that same reason

Based on the visible YouTubers, absolutely. The rider community here is a bit small, so I have no real idea of the ”real” world.

Edited April 14, 2020 by mrelwood

[Stillhart]

52 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

I'm not sure if most people do, but previously if you wanted to ride faster than 50km/h, you had no choice. Luckily now you can set the tilt-back to a higher value as well with both DarknessBot and EUC World. 

Some people still think that the tilt-back may cause an overlean by itself, which hasn't been confirmed to be the case. More importantly, the suggested scenario is such that the rider couldn't save from turning into an overlean anyway. This idea has been spreading mouth to mouth for years, and besides being redundant especially for modern Gotways for the last 2-3 years, I think it is a dangerous one.

I think the GW tilt-back works marvellously well, and I've never heard of a situation where it wouldn't "work". And since it's a smooth one unlike that of KS, it definitely doesn't cause a power spike of any sort.

Except for ignorance, I see no reason not to use it as the final safety measure, at any speed you want to set it. I'd trust my safety conscious butt on the GW tilt-back any day.

There are $2 relay circuits that delay connecting the speaker cables with the NE555-circuit. If you're familiar with the 555, making one yourself should be pretty trivial. The one with the red circuit board is the one that has been used for the Nikola, as it has directly usable connectors:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=555+delay&_sacat=0&_sop=15

Thanks, good info.  I'll probably set the tiltback up near the 80% beeps to start with.

For the relay, I just read through that whole other thread and I'm sure I can make it work, either buying one or using what I have here.  I know I have some 555 and some relays, it's just a matter of really reminding myself how all of it works... I'll probably just get the $2 one.  lol

[Rywokast]

5 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Exactly. Word of mouth is very hard to silence, even if someone would prove it wrong with a perfect test rig.

The option to set the tilt-back higher than 48km/h has only been there for a few months or so.

I guess the limit is just in the GW app. I just confirmed that the latest DarknessBot can set the tilt-back up to 69km/h (84V MSX, so no point in real life...), and confirmed with a lift test that it indeed works.

Based on the visible YouTubers, absolutely. The rider community here is a bit small, so I have no real idea of the ”real” world.

aaaaah okay, well thats great to know then.. i sold my nikola about six months ago but if i still had it then i would be doing that... ill have to play with that when my monster gets here

[mrelwood]

 

13 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

I'll probably set the tiltback up near the 80% beeps to start with.

Do note that the 80% speed at 100% battery can’t really be reached by riding, as the battery will sag a good bit while accelerating.
Also, unlike on other manufacturers’ wheels, the tilt-back speed doesn’t decrease with battery level, you have to take care of that yourself while riding.

I would just decide beforehand what’s the fastest speed you want to ride at when balancing fun and safety. That way the wheel will gently guide you back on track if the adrenaline spiked you tries to make a biased choice for himself...

[Stillhart]

46 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

Do note that the 80% speed at 100% battery can’t really be reached by riding, as the battery will sag a good bit while accelerating.
Also, unlike on other manufacturers’ wheels, the tilt-back speed doesn’t decrease with battery level, you have to take care of that yourself while riding.

I would just decide beforehand what’s the fastest speed you want to ride at when balancing fun and safety. That way the wheel will gently guide you back on track if the adrenaline spiked you tries to make a biased choice for himself...

That's actually my intention.  I will probably end up setting it somewhere around 25mph, which should leave me plenty of headroom on the Nik.

[Stillhart]

On 4/13/2020 at 12:43 PM, Rywokast said:

oh good glad to hear it, ewheels is the best of course  im just warning you now though youre coming from a ninebot one.. however big you think the nikola is, its bigger  though it makes little difference when riding.. oh and when you get it if you are wanting to use the pads just tape them on temporarily dont use the included double sided until youre absolutely positive of the positioning, because re positioning can often damage or destroy pads and the adhesive residue is a pain in the ass to remove from that sexy shell

Yeah, it's huge.  It feels so much more massive than the Ninebot, and I'm nervous about dropping it, so I'm getting a lot of wobbles.  Can't wait for my roll.nz cover to get here in a few days so I can stop stressing about scratching it.  The wobbles are freaking me out... I've ridden it about 5 miles so far and never gotten it over 14mph.  lol  Hopefully that goes away with the cover, some experience, and some muscle-building.  I hope it's not a wonky tire or something.

On 4/13/2020 at 1:00 PM, Rywokast said:

hmm not really, the nikola is a pretty trouble free wheel.. now. maybe just prepare your eardrums for the onslaught of the startup shriek

Oh god, it's worse than the videos made it seem!  I'm going to have to operate on my new Nik!!  lol