Popular Post RagingGrandpa Posted April 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 12, 2020 @Marty Backesaid MSP is the most powerful wheel yet. If that's true, we should be able to measure it, right? Right! Friends and I got ahold of the EUCO demo wheel, and put it head-to-head with the prior high-torque wheels, MSX and MCM5. These runs were timed with a manual stopwatch, over a fixed distance. Notable results: The MSX owner (Rider 1) was fastest up our hill on MCM5, not MSP! But we can see from his current log that he wasn't comfortable taking the MSP to its maximum output. The MCM5 owner (Rider 2) was fastest with MSP, not MCM5! We can see that he committed to an even more aggressive forward lean, and got higher current from the MSP. If you don't use power pads, and weigh 175lb or less, it's physically impossible to even get near the power limits of MSX or MSP at low speeds. None of us were comfortable going up this hill quickly (with any wheel) without DIY lean pads installed. Data:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OxLMZz3fuu_x06lTeh8rQOeYU1oPibda/view?usp=sharing Summary analysis: Video of test: Very fun wheel! Notice something we didn't? Comments appreciated 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said: @Marty Backesaid MSP is the most powerful wheel yet. If that's true, we should be able to measure it, right? Right! Friends and I got ahold of the EUCO demo wheel, and put it head-to-head with the prior high-torque wheels, MSX and MCM5. These runs were timed with a manual stopwatch, over a fixed distance. Notable results: The MSX owner (Rider 1) was fastest up our hill on MCM5, not MSP! But we can see from his current log that he wasn't comfortable taking the MSP to its maximum output. The MCM5 owner (Rider 2) was fastest with MSP, not MCM5! We can see that he committed to an even more aggressive forward lean, and got higher current from the MSP. If you don't use power pads, and weigh 175lb or less, it's physically impossible to even get near the power limits of MSX or MSP at low speeds. None of us were comfortable going up this hill quickly (with any wheel) without DIY lean pads installed. Data:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OxLMZz3fuu_x06lTeh8rQOeYU1oPibda/view?usp=sharing Summary analysis: Video of test: Very fun wheel! Notice something we didn't? Comments appreciated I never used the word "fastest". By powerful, I meant it's ability to slowly climb a steep hill - raw low-end power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said: Comments appreciated Be carefull with stall current tests - the cables and mosfets are absolutely not designed for such burdens! And from what i read gw wheels have no current limitations... "Additional lowspeed acceleration (bigger motors) are not desirable in future EUC's of this size. We did not perform tests to evaluate heat dissipation of the wheel. MSP is likely to maintain speed on a grade at lower temperatures than MSX, due to its design which includes the stronger motor (same force with less current), and upgraded internal cooling. (Better cooling allows heavier riders to sustain longer climbs in hotter climates.)" So "bigger motors" (more torque per current, less speed per voltage) could be of interest for "mountain climbers" - they don't need additional torque (as you commented in the video - grip/traction is the limit...) but the mosfets stay cooler/cables survive since they have to handle less current. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 And thanks of course to @Seba for the app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyboyEUC Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Very nice video. This is the kind of test needed to clearly show the difference between the MSX and the MSP. Out of curiosity was this the 84v MSX or the 100v MSX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Flyboy10 said: Out of curiosity was this the 84v MSX or the 100v MSX? Interesting. From the graphs it seems to be the 84V! @RagingGrandpa - you took the lift cut off speeds of both in the video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyboyEUC Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Chriull said: From the graphs it seems to be the 84V! When I tested the very MSP in that video and the 100v MSX I couldn't tell a difference between the climbing ability. Granted I'm only 150 lbs and the "hill" was only 22% grade AND we had no powerpads. I couldn't find a steeper hill. The underpass was a great idea! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 Oh man, great test! I would SO need the MSP... Recently I’ve gotten my courage and skills to a point where I’m able to overlean the 84V MSX in situations where I need explosive power at zero speed to get my 210lbs up complicated off-road inclines and obstacles. I so wish that the V11 motor is up for the challenge. Otherwise I should wait. But I don’t know if I can! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted April 14, 2020 Author Share Posted April 14, 2020 Also- this test would be quite easy to replicate, since bridge foundations like this are quite common. Grab a stopwatch and race your friends- and post your result of course! 15 hours ago, Flyboy10 said: Out of curiosity was this the 84v MSX or the 100v MSX? Noted in the data- 84V 1600wh MSX. We believe the 100V 1860wh MSX would behave identically to the 84V in our test, because the maximum stall torque is primarily a result of the motor and controller (not the input voltage). The same motor is used in all MSX. If the 100V controller were designed to permit even higher current, then yes, 100V could be even quicker in our test; but because the 100V controller uses same-size drive transistors, we don't think it will give higher current. (We didn't have a 100V MSX to test, though.) 15 hours ago, Chriull said: you took the lift cut off speeds of both in the video? I didn't repeat that check, since EUCO posted it already: On 1/29/2020 at 9:40 AM, RagingGrandpa said: And MSX 84V no-load speeds are almost identical to MSP. 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: Recently I’ve gotten my courage and skills to a point where I’m able to overlean the 84V MSX in situations where I need explosive power at zero speed to get my 210lbs up complicated off-road inclines and obstacles. Yep. I'm 175lb riding weight, and ride steep obstacles in the woods. I can tell I'm right at the limits of my MSX, but honestly have never had to step off the wheel due to overlean- I always run out of traction and spin the tire first (then fall ). In this artificial test, I could easily get the MSX to dip, but thankfully it was something that felt easy to recover from without stepping off. (And I couldn't get the MSP to dip.) I'm keeping my MSX till its worn out. It could fall in a river this afternoon, who knows... I'm confident I'd be happy with MSP as a future replacement. Suspension wheels... I'm not willing to be a first-year product guinea pig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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