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EUC for a heavy rider? Spring 2020

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Posted (edited)

My dad has been learning on an old MS2 which is quite underpowered.
So it is time to get a more powerful EUC and I wanted to check if there where some opinions about heavy rider and the current lineup.

He is 62 and about 110 kg so he needs some safety margin. 18+" for comfort, Supposedly won't be going too fast (?)

I'd like to suggest the new wheels with suspension, but the KSS18 3p battery might be too limited from a torque point of view.
MSX/MSP get overuled by the 18XL due to ergonomics and he don't need the speed.

So we have a shortlist of the KS18XL or Gotway Monster.
Does Monster later have any torque issues for heavy riders?

Any other suggestions or opinions?
Thanks for the attention, cheers.

Edited by null

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Posted (edited)

Inmotion V11?

The S18 battery configuration might not be an issue for a peaceful rider either, despite the weight. Too early to tell though.

The Monster is a pretty specialized wheel, if he’s not going fast and far, he doesn’t seem to fit the demographic too well. I wouldn’t be brave enough to recommend the Monster as the only wheel for anyone.

Edited by mrelwood

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Posted (edited)

put your dad to lift a 28,6 KG weight...
I'm see from your listed profile that you already have an 18XL
how he feels on ?

Edited by Meserias

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Posted (edited)

@mrelwood

Inmotion V11: yes the battery sound safer, I was worried about the custom suspensions though, on the S18 you could change it to accommodate weight.
Maybe the 3p battery is useable (especially at less than 30km/h speeds), as you said, too early to tell.

Suspensions would be nice to be less tiresome on the knees, hence I also thought of the Monster. He's in the countryside and would use it as a pod vehicle from his river boat. Thus distances could be long and the point would also to be cruising around visiting. So some range matters too. So the lesser dexterity of the monster shouldn't be an issue and he has no stairs carry it.

I'm just thinking out loud, thanks for the input!

@Meserias

He didn't get to try it yet as he learned recently and we are confined, but he's doing OK on the MS2 (roughly same tyre). 
So the 18XL could be a safe choice, if not the most fancy. I'm looking a bit at "comfort" options in case something was possible though :) 

Edited by null

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31 minutes ago, null said:

Inmotion V11: yes the battery sound safer, I was worried about the custom suspensions though, on the S18 you could change it to accommodate weight.

V11 suspension is adjustable to weight. Just pump it up with the included high pressure pump. Inmotion already shared a video of it. 

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33 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

V11 suspension is adjustable to weight. Just pump it up with the included high pressure pump. Inmotion already shared a video of it. 

Yes, if they hold the maxed weight. I've been wary of IM also due to pedal drooping and cracking, as well as limited range, but maybe the v11 could still be a good option.

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We’ve put aside the suspended wheels as range would be limited and availability might be far.

I prioritized the 18xl over the MSx due to ergonomy and no need for speed. However the MSP have seemed more and more interesting due to the torque (heavy rider)

With 2000+Wh the MSP should be on par or superior to the 18xl regarding range. (Same riding style)

The main difference becomes ergonomic VS torque. So technically the MSP should be superior, question us mainly at the cost of how much comfort.

Just thinking out loud here.

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Posted (edited)

@null

Just buy KS16X heavy ride proofed. Set max speed to 45 Km/h(i use 43km/h) . Pump 38-42 Psi range is good.

16X for big/Fat    🐷 riders. You need power to brake if you are heavy. Amazing handle. 

Not buy ks16x if you ride in rain  water is 16X kryptonite.

All based my experience +- 120Kg Full geared. 

Other option is V10F is cheaper and you Dad propably not overpower by agreesive aceleration. V10F weak point is temperature or big inclines. For older person ideal waterproof 20kg only. Ergonomic big pedals nice ride feel responsive 16 tire size. 18XL is good is +-V10F on steroids. My list 16x v10f 18xl (if you want save money go v10F he can ubgrade in future)

 

Edited by DjPanJan

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Thanks for the tips; yes true the 16X stays an option; it should have good torque with the smaller diameter, and it has good range. Nice to have the opinion from an other heavy rider :) 

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1 hour ago, null said:

The main difference becomes ergonomic VS torque.

I know it’s difficult to decide and you need to find some meaningful differences. But here I feel like you have already reached the peak of diminishing returns on both wheels when it comes to torque. Even for a heavy rider the difference (if any, do you have the measured numbers?) in torque is likely meaningless. If he is close to running out if it on the new 18XL motor then I’d recommend some other hobby rather than the MSP. 
 

I would recommend ergonomics and easy of living with the wheel as deciding factors. But a disclaimer: I don’t really know if 120 kg needs the MSP and I don’t have the numbers. But both have the torque version of a same size motor, enough batteries and beefy enough control board. The difference cannot be huge. 

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Posted (edited)

TL;DR: Your 120kg dad should get a wheel with a fatter tire.

I'm 125KG and both the 100V MonsterV3 and the Nikola+ are fine for me--they have plenty of torque, acceleration and speed. I've taken them up very steep, twisty paths, and I've taken the Nikola+ off-road. I've never overleaned either of them.

The reason I switched away from the 18XL is that with my weight, I had to run the narrow tire up around 53 psi, and the ride was very harsh and bumpy on Florida's crummy bike trails. Both of the wheels I have now give a more comfortable ride. I run 52 psi in the Nikola+, but because of the more compliant tire it's fine.

The Nikola is surprisingly comfortable with the fat, 3" compliant tire. It's probably my favorite wheel at the moment as it's so nimble, and it's great having a trolley handle.

One "problem" with the Monster is that it's so easy to go fast, other riders can't keep up. I have to keep slowing down or waiting for them to catch up. Maybe the Monster has less low end zippiness, but it keeps pulling and before you know it, you're going 50kph. :D

Suspension on a wheel sounds like a good idea both in comfort and safety. Probably in a couple years, all the wheels will have suspensions. 

Edited by erk1024

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I'm about 110 kg and 60 years old, and the KS18XL moves me easily up short inclines and ramps, almost as easily as the 16X. I basically don't have to do anything extra as far as leaning goes for either of these wheels. But I can tell the 16X is the mightier one. I don't have a long hill to test for heat build up. Both have about the same range. I would give the edge to the 18XL because the 18 inch wheel is more stable for longer cruises and would be a more comfortable wheel.

If going off road is a factor, the MSP will be more the better choice. The MSP is due to arrive this Tuesday 4-28-20. Once I give it a good try, I'll let you know how that does for me. I would say the Monster might not be the best choice due to the extra leaning required to accelerate it and get it up  inclines. It is a delightful cruiser with its stability, but it does work the calves harder and is more tiring for that reason. On level ground it is fine.

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Posted (edited)

I got the MSX 1800Wh and have been very happy with it.  I was about 110kg when I bought it but have lost a significant amount of weight since.  However it performed really well on uphill trails as well as the flat.  I was getting about 50mile range out of it doing 12-15mph. Big thumbs up from me.  Now I get 60+ miles range.  

Edited by Gazza-usa

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Posted (edited)

Thanks a lot for all the insight, that was great. @UniVehje : yes he don’t need any dragster torque, just so he gets over hills and bumps in safety. This would have me tend toward the 18xl. @erk1024 have a good point about the wheel thickness which in turn would incline towards the MSP. The weight is probably better handled by a 3” tyre.

Difficult choice. @Scottie yes indeed for the cruising comfort of 18”. 16x3 would be nice for the city with torque and comfort, but he’s mainly going to do countryside long range, so 18”+ is A better bet.


@Gazza-usa Nice to know the MSX could work. It’s can be found at some interesting prices lately too.

Edited by null

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Where ya all finding good prices on EUC's? I'm going to buy another one probably and yeah I am undecided as well on which one to buy. I am leaning towards the Nicola. I am also a bigger lad. My 18L does great and I really just want to ride a Gotway so best way to ride one is to buy one I suppose. I can't afford another one but hey when has that ever stopped us!!!!!!

Whats the main difference between the MSX and Nicola? Not sure what a MSP even is. (MSX pro maybe?) If so, if I am deciding between the MSX or the MSP, its MSX hands down due to price and what the extra money gets you with the MSP, which isn't much from what I gather. 

A monster would be awesome I imagine but again thats a lot of extra dough above the others and then if I am going to consider a Monster I then have to consider the Ninebot Z. Speaking of ninebot, how come ninebot hasn't surpassed these other manufacturers? I would think Ninebot (Segway) would be way further advanced then any of these other guys. Very interesting.......

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HuskerDawg said:

Where ya all finding good prices on EUC's? I'm going to buy another one probably and yeah I am undecided as well on which one to buy. I am leaning towards the Nicola. I am also a bigger lad. My 18L does great and I really just want to ride a Gotway so best way to ride one is to buy one I suppose. I can't afford another one but hey when has that ever stopped us!!!!!!

Whats the main difference between the MSX and Nicola? Not sure what a MSP even is. (MSX pro maybe?) If so, if I am deciding between the MSX or the MSP, its MSX hands down due to price and what the extra money gets you with the MSP, which isn't much from what I gather. 

A monster would be awesome I imagine but again thats a lot of extra dough above the others and then if I am going to consider a Monster I then have to consider the Ninebot Z. Speaking of ninebot, how come ninebot hasn't surpassed these other manufacturers? I would think Ninebot (Segway) would be way further advanced then any of these other guys. Very interesting.......

 

 

The used market will be flooded ALL this year. My collection is growing as well, but I'm waiting before I go BIG on something like a monster. I am pretty sure the euc companies see the market that gotway has opened up. Im hoping for something equal to in specs but a little more refined in build. Before I pull the trigger on a 70lb beast, I'll wait to see who comes to compete. If nothing else, once competition arrives, these monsters will go for cheaper. I suspect itll be easy to find one for less than the batteries are even worth. I'm still not wearing out the range of what i have, tho it won't be too long. Mten makes a GREAT second wheel. Unless you count giving your partner a  wheel as your second, tho technically its their FIRST. I ride my mten more frequently than my 18L.  :)

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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4 hours ago, HuskerDawg said:

Speaking of ninebot, how come ninebot hasn't surpassed these other manufacturers? I would think Ninebot (Segway) would be way further advanced then any of these other guys. Very interesting.......

In many ways they actually are pretty advanced. But it’s in the details, not raw speed and range that matter more on an enthusiast forum like this. Plus Ninebot seems to make more money right now in scooters and have (at least temporarily) lost interest in EUCs. The Z10 still has some issues that they never bothered to fix. Who knows, maybe they are developing new wheels. But it’s very likely that the R&D cost for the Z10 was multiples of what Gotway uses. It just shows in other things than speed. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, HuskerDawg said:

Where ya all finding good prices on EUC's? I'm going to buy another one probably and yeah I am undecided as well on which one to buy. I am leaning towards the Nicola. I am also a bigger lad. My 18L does great and I really just want to ride a Gotway so best way to ride one is to buy one I suppose. I can't afford another one but hey when has that ever stopped us!!!!!!

Whats the main difference between the MSX and Nicola? Not sure what a MSP even is. (MSX pro maybe?) If so, if I am deciding between the MSX or the MSP, its MSX hands down due to price and what the extra money gets you with the MSP, which isn't much from what I gather. 

A monster would be awesome I imagine but again thats a lot of extra dough above the others and then if I am going to consider a Monster I then have to consider the Ninebot Z. Speaking of ninebot, how come ninebot hasn't surpassed these other manufacturers? I would think Ninebot (Segway) would be way further advanced then any of these other guys. Very interesting.......

 

This guy has some great reviews.  No nonsense info.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kuji+rolls&app=desktop

Quote

 

 

Edited by Gazza-usa

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14 hours ago, HuskerDawg said:

Whats the main difference between the MSX and Nicola?

Looking past the differences in stance and comfort, they ride almost the same. But where the Nikola has a tall curved side profile, MSX is low and boxy with a sharp edge. While the MSX pedals are smallish and angled very steep to the side, Nikola pedals are quite a bit larger and flatter. MSX trolley requires skill not to make it run out on you, while the Nikola trolley is relatively stable and centered.

But at the end of the day, 18" is still 18", making the MSX ride more comfortably on uneven terrain, and (even) more stable at high speeds.

14 hours ago, HuskerDawg said:

Not sure what a MSP even is.

Msuper Pro, replacing the MSX. Slower than a 100V MSX but with a good bit more power. And very bright dual headlight, as well as ridiculously exposed speakers. Then there are also two versions of MSS (Msuper Pro Sport), one with the fast 2000W MSX motor and one with a custom powerful and stupidly fast 2300W motor.

I'm closing in on two years on the old 84V MSX, and it's still a wheel that a relatively heavy rider like me can ride pretty fast and pretty aggressively. But if I was choosing between the current Gotways, I'd go with the 2500W MSP, since I would use the additional torque when off-roading.

 

14 hours ago, HuskerDawg said:

how come ninebot hasn't surpassed these other manufacturers?

They could be too big of a company to advance fast enough in a market segment this fresh. And the complicacy of the Z-series didn't really pay off, but has had it's own common issues, which seem more common than we'd like to see. And the specialized riding behaviour didn't help it conquer the markets. Below that it drops down to the S2, which barely functions even as a learner wheel these days.

Gotway has a killer combination in making wheels that are cheaper, faster, more powerful, and with bigger batteries than the competition has to offer. And they have many more models to choose from. And since the shells are pretty busted in a year or two anyway, one wants to buy a newer one. Manufacturing and business 101. :D

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Posted (edited)

As the tread got bumped, for the news on this side, we're at between MSP and MSS due to the wider tyre compared to the 18XL.

The remaining question is whether the MSS consumes less power and could get better range. The hight speed isn't needed.

Edited by null

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1 hour ago, null said:

As the tread got bumped, for the news on this side, we're at between MSP and MSS due to the wider tyre compared to the 18XL.

The remaining question is whether the MSS consumes less power and could get better range. The hight speed isn't needed.

They should use the same amount of power. The question is not what it can do but what are you asking it to do. It should be possible to burn more energy with the larger motor, however I do not see that happening with the average 62 year old. .... or even most people on this forum. Power usage should  be the same within reason.

 

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36 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

They should use the same amount of power. The question is not what it can do but what are you asking it to do. It should be possible to burn more energy with the larger motor, however I do not see that happening with the average 62 year old. .... or even most people on this forum. Power usage should  be the same within reason.

 

Thanks for the confirmation, I suspected it was that. Mostly easier to use the energy.
He'll probably not ride like a wild horse anyway, but the torque would be nice to minimise risk of faceplant.

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6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

MSX pedals are smallish and angled very steep to the side, Nikola pedals are quite a bit larger and flatter. MSX trolley requires skill not to make it run out on you, while the Nikola trolley is relatively stable and centered.

           Nice, that pretty much settles it for me and eliminates the MSX. I dont believe I could deal with peddles angled in towards the body of the wheel. Now I have to find another prospect vs the Nicola. As well as to determine the differences in the versions of the Nicola. I'd still like to learn of options for purchase. So far Ewheels is one option but prices seem high to me. And my apologies for bumping the thread but I figured these kind knowledgable gentleman can multi task and chime in to multiple threads or off shoots of the same. Thanks

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20 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

The used market will be flooded ALL this year.

       Where does one find used markets? 

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16 minutes ago, HuskerDawg said:

           Nice, that pretty much settles it for me and eliminates the MSX. I dont believe I could deal with peddles angled in towards the body of the wheel. Now I have to find another prospect vs the Nicola. As well as to determine the differences in the versions of the Nicola. I'd still like to learn of options for purchase. So far Ewheels is one option but prices seem high to me. And my apologies for bumping the thread but I figured these kind knowledgable gentleman can multi task and chime in to multiple threads or off shoots of the same. Thanks

Depends on where you're getting it, but the MSP I got from eWheels has a less extreme pedal angle. The angle only slightly higher than my Nikola and it comes with Nikola pedals stock. I find it just as comfortable to ride (pedal-wise). The 18" MSP tire is more comfortable when it comes to navigating poor road conditions.

11 minutes ago, HuskerDawg said:

       Where does one find used markets? 

There's a private BST forum here for starters! If I can't convince my buddy to buy my Nikola I'll be putting it up here.

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