King Song S18 Discussion

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Feynman said:

To each their own.  I think it's ugly as heck.  Up there with my Roomba errr I mean Nikola.  Best looking wheel ever is the Z10.  S18  might be the new king, though  

I own all three that you speak of and I don’t think the S 18 is as good looking as a V 11. The Z10....meh. It’s ok I guess. 

[Feynman]

19 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

KingSong seems to be rather frantically pushing people to update the S18 firmware. I suspect there’s a dangerous bug they’re hiding.

This ^.  I suspect someone had the handle pop up while riding and took a dive.

[UniVehje]

27 minutes ago, Feynman said:

This ^.  I suspect someone had the handle pop up while riding and took a dive.

That cannot happen and hasn't happened. I think they are afraid of people trying to ride it after they have been lifting it and the lift sensor is still activated as the handle is still up. But the wheel feels like it's balancing and then doesn't after they are already going faster and leaning to accelerate. The new version cuts out at 1 km/h and thus is less dangerous. The lift sensor will not activate if you lift it while riding even if you then stop and start again. You have to lift it after stopping first. 

I think the new system is a pretty good work around but the trolley itself is bad design as you cannot grab it quickly. Looks like another compromise to get the looks and a large suspension system to fit. 

[Feynman]

I don't know why they would need to detect if the wheel was rolling or not when the handle was raised, then.

[UniVehje]

2 minutes ago, Feynman said:

I don't know why they would need to detect if the wheel was rolling or not when the handle was raised, then.

If the handle comes up when making a big jump and then you come to a stop and stand on the wheel. You don't want it to cut out at that point. So it's important to detect if the handle was lifted before it's at stand still. What they're trying to prevent now is a scenario where the handle has been up for lifting and the rider forgets to close it. Then the wheel feels like its balancing but is really not. 

[Feynman]

So the handle could come up when riding then?

[Feynman]

I wonder if it was falling over when the handle was popped up into first position before the user could lift the wheel prior to the update?

[EUChristian]

42 minutes ago, Feynman said:

So the handle could come up when riding then?

Yes, it’s possible but I haven’t actually heard of anyone saying it has. 

[EUChristian]

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

I own all three that you speak of and I don’t think the S 18 is as good looking as a V 11. The Z10....meh. It’s ok I guess. 

More a response to Atlas...if you go over to the INMOTION thread you will see suddenly all fanboys are out justifying their purchase and stating that “the case is closed” on which is better....you know, based off of one persons opinion. “It only took $5 worth of padding to close the gap” etc etc. Even if this is the case With suspension (and I don’t believe it is, since Chooch weighs basically nothing), I still do not like the design, I still do not like the look and I still do not like having a furniture slider as the kuji pad. 
 

Is this how this forum always is?  Which wheel is better?  Funny because if one wheel were the best or one company was the best why are the other ones still around?  Funny how we have short memories too - one mishap with a cutout and it’s all over?  If that’s the case, why are people still riding GotWay?  I’m not even going to scratch the surface of how many errors they have had on new wheels, with Kingsong not far behind...

 

we have absolutely no clue which is better for ME - and that’s all I give a hoot about. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by EUChristian

[Feynman]

8 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

Is this how this forum always is?  Which wheel is better?  Funny because if one wheel were the best or one company was the best why are the other ones still around?  Funny how we have short memories too - one mishap with a cutout and it’s all over?  If that’s the case, why are people still riding GotWay?  I’m not even going to scratch the surface of how many errors they have had on new wheels, with Kingsong not far behind...

This forum is downright peaceful and polite compared to other e-skate and OneWheel groups.  LMAO.  I love Chooch's videos, but at the end of the day I don't want to get 45mph on an EUC, plus I love the 16x; so it was an easy choice for me.

[fryman]

4 minutes ago, Feynman said:

This forum is downright peaceful and polite compared to other e-skate and OneWheel groups.  LMAO.  I love Chooch's videos, but at the end of the day I don't want to get 45mph on an EUC, plus I love the 16x; so it was an easy choice for me.

Yes, respecting each other and their opinion is the way it should be.

[EUChristian]

28 minutes ago, Feynman said:

This forum is downright peaceful and polite compared to other e-skate and OneWheel groups.  LMAO.  I love Chooch's videos, but at the end of the day I don't want to get 45mph on an EUC, plus I love the 16x; so it was an easy choice for me.

Agreed! edit for bad information. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by EUChristian

[null]

8 minutes ago, Feynman said:

This forum is downright peaceful and polite compared to other e-skate and OneWheel groups.  LMAO.  I love Chooch's videos, but at the end of the day I don't want to get 45mph on an EUC, plus I love the 16x; so it was an easy choice for me.

Agreed this forum is more peaceful than many other (photo, computers .. x_x) but the two suspended wheels seem to have raised more fanboyism than usual. I hope we can avoid ending up with flame wars and rather appreciate the good and bad of EUCs independently of brand.

Edited August 3, 2020 by null

[-iB-]

3 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

Agreed!  Funny how I predicted when I watched the video what I would see. Also Duf just sold his V11 to buy an S18. Unsure why he would sell the best suspension wheel in order to get the runner-up? Lol

Did he end up selling the V11?  I was under the assumption he was getting a replacement due to the bearing issues since he doesn't want to give up the V11.  He did end up selling a couple other wheels though to make room for the S18.

[Cranium]

18 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

we have absolutely no clue which is better for ME - and that’s all I give a hoot about.

You are correct that no-one knows which wheel is the best for you.  I would presume you come here to read posts and watch videos on others sharing their opinions so that you are able to make an informed decision for yourself.

[Zopper]

16 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

Also Duf just sold his V11 to buy an S18. Unsure why he would sell the best suspension wheel in order to get the runner-up? Lol

No, he said that he sold two wheels and that his V11 went back to the dealer for repair/change, so he sent away three wheels in a week.

[EUChristian]

3 minutes ago, Zopper said:

No, he said that he sold two wheels and that his V11 went back to the dealer for repair/change, so he sent away three wheels in a week.

My mistake!  Rewatched the video. 

[eve]

13 hours ago, Jack King Song said:

The 45 degree cut off angle doesnt happen when you ride at speed

It does Jack. In offroad situations and some actual roads are tilted sometimes and that 45 degree angle cut off is just a lottery for experience riders and provides no safety for new riders. 

The angle cut-off is there when you crash so your wheel doesnt spin out of control and injure someone or do damage to someones property. I see no other reason for it. 

And what could a beginner do with a 60 degree angle cut off? Nothing. He would ride the same way as usual and no difference noticed. 

Am i missing something here?

[EUChristian]

5 minutes ago, eve said:

It does Jack. In offroad situations and some actual roads are tilted sometimes and that 45 degree angle cut off is just a lottery for experience riders and provides no safety for new riders. 

The angle cut-off is there when you crash so your wheel doesnt spin out of control and injure someone or do damage to someones property. I see no other reason for it. 

And what could a beginner do with a 60 degree angle cut off? Nothing. He would ride the same way as usual and no difference noticed. 

Am i missing something here?

No I think you are correct. 

[eve]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

Even if this is the case With suspension (and I don’t believe it is, since Chooch weighs basically nothing)

Its not people just dont have enough iQ to listen to what Chooch is saying. 

He said "I would take the V11 over S18 ON THIS TRACK!" 

Sadly they only heard "I would take the V11 over S18!"

[Scottie888]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

 ...I still do not like the design, I still do not like the look and I still do not like having a furniture slider as the kuji pad. 
 

The V11 reminds me of a horse ass saddle & for the life of me, I can't get excited over it despite it's seeming technical prowess as an allrounder. The S18 on the other hand reminds me of something an Italian named Giorgetto Giugiaro or a Nuccio Bertone would come up with. Whatever, it's definitely & strangely very non Chinese in design I must add.

That said, I'm not sure that's a good thing as we all know the rep of Italian cars spending alot more time in the shop than on the streets -nothing against Italians nor their Autos but it is what it is, as least in North America.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, EUChristian said:

More a response to Atlas...if you go over to the INMOTION thread you will see suddenly all fanboys are out justifying their purchase and stating that “the case is closed” on which is better....

That’s how humans are in general. I think what feeds the current fanboyism you mention is that for months now several people have repeatedly brought up how the V11 suspension is a failure by design, and because of the inferior suspension it is unsuitable for serious off-roading. Some of us have been certain that it’s not the case, and now a known and very skilled off-roader finally proves the naysayers wrong. 

Beyond having a suspension at all the S18 and V11 are quite different wheels for target groups that are now starting to form shape. I’m sure most buyers in either camp can’t really even consider the other wheel since it wouldn’t be a worthwhile purchase for them, be it for visual, theoretical, or range related reasons.

Quote

“It only took $5 worth of padding to close the gap”

This too was a direct response to a certain user claiming how the V11 simply can’t even entertain the idea of jump pads.

Quote

I still do not like the design, I still do not like the look and I still do not like having a furniture slider as the kuji pad.

Just like I said. For many people the other wheel is not even a choice.

Quote

If that’s the case, why are people still riding GotWay?

Riding an EUC is an emotional experience, and humans tend to shape their values and try to find practical reasoning to fit a choice they have made, even its made for aesthetical reasons only. Or the lust for speed. If GWs hadn’t been faster than the rest, the issues wouldn’t have been forgotten as easily, and GW perhaps wouldn’t even exist anymore.

If all V11 and S18 specs were swapped, I’m sure I too would do anything to start seeing the S18 as a good looking wheel. One tends to feed one’s fanboyism like that.

[eve]

12 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Some of us have been certain that it’s not the case, and now a known and very skilled off-roader finally proves the naysayers wrong. 

We have been certain V11 will be a good offroader from the start but not on extremely rough terrain.

Im not a fanboy for either but V11 is a cruiser with a good motor and a decent suspension. 
That makes it a very good off-roader on some trails while a bad one on others. 

The thing is. Before suspension nobody even tried riding bad ones. S18 can handle almost all. V11 can handle some. 

But lets not pretend that S18 is a good purchase in Europe atleast. 2200€ is price noone should pay for this wheel. Definetly not. 

Well 1899usd is not a good price either but considering its a new wheel ill let that pass.

But the pricing in Europe is just pure bs. 

I asked at Speedy Feet. Why is the S18 priced the same as V11 at your shop? The answer was: Why not?

Says a lot.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by eve

[ColoradoQuattro]

Not at all surprised to see the V11 vs S18 discussion going the way it is...  

Personally, I bought the S18 because its design carries the majority of the device's weight on the suspension.  In heavy off-road applications, this design *should* work better.  The V11's design, carrying the rider on the suspension, seem to be more noticeable and more forgiving in less demanding circumstances.  I would think that as long as the suspension can isolate the rider from the "business-end" of the experience, the V11's design should win out, but once you cross that threshold, the benefits of the S18's design should become apparent. 

As far as jumping, while the lack of padding can be inexpensively addressed, it doesn't seem like having the weight of the device sitting at the end of the suspension travel will ever be ideal...  But clearly, this can also be managed.    

So far, I'm the only person I know of who bought my first EUC specifically for riding offroad, and the difference in suspension design is the only reason I chose the S18.  It sounds like some of the S18 folks are going to have to get over the fact that for many people, the V11 design is going to work great, especially for a wheel that's going to see a lot of mixed use.  

Riding it up at the lake this weekend, with only the OneWheel to compare it to, I can only confirm that riding the S18 is super fun!  Rode up and down dirt trails with roots, rocks, wood chips, puddles, etc.  Never blinked.  So good! 

Edited August 3, 2020 by ColoradoQuattro

[Feynman]

I'll probably never ride the S18 on any serious trails.  It just looks f@#in cool and I love the 16x.