King Song S18 Discussion

[keetz]

I've gotten around 15 miles under my belt with this wheel...

After hearing about this "cutout" ride off story, I'm a bit scared of this wheel now.

It seems like a huge oversight and safety risk that the trolley handle does not lock down in its lowest position.  

If hitting decent bump at high speed causes the handle to pop up into the low position "slow speed" carry mode, then it's likely going to be a bad day for the rider... I don't think most will be lucky enough to ride it off when cruising in the upper 20's.

[eve]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

And I don’t mind the suspension arm color in the least. Looks copper!  Love copper and black together!  That makes four of us that got in in black and 3000 people who got it in white.

Wait till you put a copper colored fox shock on it. Thats when you realize why is it in that color.  

I ordered in black too. That black looks better on the picture then any other ive seen. Matte black is the best color ever! 

[.....]

16 minutes ago, keetz said:

I've gotten around 15 miles under my belt with this wheel...

After hearing about this "cutout" ride off story, I'm a bit scared of this wheel now.

It seems like a huge oversight and safety risk that the trolley handle does not lock down in its lowest position.  

If hitting decent bump at high speed causes the handle to pop up into the low position "slow speed" carry mode, then it's likely going to be a bad day for the rider... I don't think most will be lucky enough to ride it off when cruising in the upper 20's.

After thinking about it, I am warming up to their handle idea. The testers kept dropping the wheel when they lifted the handle, as it shut off the motor completely. Hitting that little button and lifting it isnt the most graceful thing in the world. The handle being able to come up for carry, WITHOUT having to hit the button, will make it MUCH easier to grab in a hurry. The motor being at idle speed when lifted seems like a pretty well thought out idea. I'd hate to say it, but I think they may have come up with the best solution. I'd imagine the motor wont go to trolling speed while riding (even if the handle bumped up), as it should know you are moving. I can lift like hell on my 18L trolley will riding and it just keeps riding.

2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Yes sir. How close are you?

So here it sits. No screws appear missing. In fact it came with bag of extra screws with @ShanesPlanet name attached.
 

 

Send them my way and save Jason the trouble! They should just send a bag of screws in with each unicycle. Missing screws and screws made of rejected paperclips are so damn common. I'd pay an extra $.20 for 2lbs of random bullshit screws. Or hell, MAYBE they could just hire people to do a good job and invest in quality screws. I'd pay $50 more if I could be assured I wouldnt have to completely disassemble and reassemble this chinese shit each time. Just chasing down quality screws in small quantity is a total pain. Its easy to spend $20 in shipping for $1 worth of bs hardware.

Edited July 28, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Cranium]

8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

So far I've counted 5 screws missing on mine and I havent opened it at all. I have a total of 3 screws (tiny long ones) that are used to lower the pedal height. From factory setting, only 3 of the 4 holes line up each side. If i were to lower them, 4 of 4 would line up. However, I only had 3 screws total of the 6. I also note that one side of my white shell is missing 3 of the screws that hold it to the black inner fender, its very loose... WTF?! Looks like the pedal tab screws were installed with an axe... Why is so much development and time, being undermined by such terrible build practices? These screws cost NOTHING in bulk, but I dont have them here. I havent even opened it yet, but I am nervous of what I will find when I do. Im glad I paid extra to have it air shipped, so instead of riding, I can sit here and comb thru it. Its an hour drive to town during the pandemic, to buy $.50 worth of random screws. I'll have to get a hold of jason at ewheels, as Im not sure warranty still holds valid, if i dig deeper. One thing is certain, I can't put my faith in relying on a vehicle thats obviously missing pieces, but is expected to keep my chin off pavement at 25mph. THIS IS NOT a design flaw, nor is it something a newer revision will magically fix. Perhaps a better build method should be in place? Look over your wheels carefully, as mine seems to be put together in haste, with less than high pride in workmanship. Freaking upper shock valve is near impossible to get to, and YES I tried thru the padding as well. Its the inner plastic that gets in the way. Ugh.. I wanted to ride a unicycle this month, not work on one...

 

I don't think there are missing screws.  I checked mine and it is the same on both sides with two screws in the rear (no pun intended) and one in the front.  These screws bear no load.  When raising and lower the pedals, these could be used to ensure the pedal is aligned correctly before torquing down on the load bearing allen head bolts.  Or these screws may also be holding in a plastic cover between the two sides.  If you look underneath, you will see a plastic plug sandwiched between them.   

As for the condition of the screws, that is indeed horrible.  Someone didn't have the right torque settings on their screwgun or something else happened.  You should definitely try to get these replaced ASAP but not because of a concern that they will fail.  If you ever do want to adjust the pedals or have to disassemble the wheel, you may not be able to remove the ones that are almost stripped already.  You want to know this sooner rather than later.  You can probably get Jason to find out the pitch and length needed and then just order them from Amazon if he doesn't have some to ship to you.  I wouldn't worry at all about the structural integrity of the wheel with what you've show so far though.  

Hopefully, you've watched the video on setup of the shock to easily access the upper valve.  I didn't have this to go by last night on my first try and just sat on the wheel while I pumped up the upper chamber to keep it depressed.  The block makes it easier to set up but is harder to remove.  I actually forgot mine in my wheel after I did an adjustment to the pressure and rode to work with it in.     
 

[.....]

27 minutes ago, Cranium said:

I don't think there are missing screws.  I checked mine and it is the same on both sides with two screws in the rear (no pun intended) and one in the front.  These screws bear no load.  When raising and lower the pedals, these could be used to ensure the pedal is aligned correctly before torquing down on the load bearing allen head bolts.  Or these screws may also be holding in a plastic cover between the two sides.  If you look underneath, you will see a plastic plug sandwiched between them.   

As for the condition of the screws, that is indeed horrible.  Someone didn't have the right torque settings on their screwgun or something else happened.  You should definitely try to get these replaced ASAP but not because of a concern that they will fail.  If you ever do want to adjust the pedals or have to disassemble the wheel, you may not be able to remove the ones that are almost stripped already.  You want to know this sooner rather than later.  You can probably get Jason to find out the pitch and length needed and then just order them from Amazon if he doesn't have some to ship to you.  I wouldn't worry at all about the structural integrity of the wheel with what you've show so far though.  

Hopefully, you've watched the video on setup of the shock to easily access the upper valve.  I didn't have this to go by last night on my first try and just sat on the wheel while I pumped up the upper chamber to keep it depressed.  The block makes it easier to set up but is harder to remove.  I actually forgot mine in my wheel after I did an adjustment to the pressure and rode to work with it in.     
 

Thanks, but I know its not right on mine. One side had 2 screws and the other had one. THREE screws total for both sides. There's 3 holes on each side that line up in default height position. If i were to change height on pedals, I'd have 4 screws on each side that would fit. I know they arent load bearing, but cmon, its screw holes that line up with threading. As it was, one side of my battery brackets were loose and separated a lot.

The horrid screws are just the pedal tab. I dont forsee me needing to remove them for much of anything. I was just troubled by the lack of care in installing something as simple as a plain phillips screw. THANK GOD these people dont work in heavy machinery. I wonder how many workers at KS are aware of wtf a torque spec even is? Perhaps a class in bolts and how torque can mitigate strength, is in order? Or maybe just find someone who gives a shit, as even a nerd could probably tell this wasnt right. The assembly worker saw what he left behind when he was done, yet chose to call it "good" and move it on down the line. Pathetic display and a lack of give a shit, in my book. Routine maintenance is not so routine, when everything you touch, falls apart after the original build. How many times can we remove these things and still expect them to not turn to dust? How can I NOT worry about the structural integrity, when I see how shoddy they were in building it? MAYBE its only the screws missing that I see, but MAYBE theres tons of shit wrong in there that I dont see. Having faith in them doing it right.... HAHAHA  gone and gone. Lets not forget, one side has an inner black shell that is missing ALL its screws. Theres at least 3 of them in there that are supposed to tie into steel rails. One side is tied up, the other....screwless. I can move inner parts by hand a lot, and that doesnt instill much confidence. I wonder if the same person who decided to ignore the screw damage and forget to install screws, was also in charge of much of the inner workings as well?

I'll watch the vid and formulate a new plan on airing up the shock. FOr now tho, its moot point as the wheel is not in service until I can comb thru it and find the rest of the build issues to be fixed. I dont need perfection, but I also wouldnt drive a car without checking lig nuts after I found a bunch loose from the factory. It is too bad they couldnt just make the valve easy to get to. I guess the pump AND block need carried, should anyone want to adjust it in route. I wonder if theres any 90degree angle fittings that would work? If it was ANY OTHER COMPANY, I'd assume they would have looked and there is no option. Since we're talking about euc builders, it wouldnt surprise me if a $3 angle could be sourced and fix it right up. Lack of faith/trust is the only reason I assume theres a simple solution they just chose not to bother with.

Edited July 28, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Cranium]

20 minutes ago, keetz said:

After hearing about this "cutout" ride off story, I'm a bit scared of this wheel now.

It seems like a huge oversight and safety risk that the trolley handle does not lock down in its lowest position.  

If hitting decent bump at high speed causes the handle to pop up into the low position "slow speed" carry mode, then it's likely going to be a bad day for the rider... I don't think most will be lucky enough to ride it off when cruising in the upper 20's.

This is purely anecdotal but if you look at this video, the handle is locked in the carry mode and the wheel is going 20KPH on my treadmill.  I lifted it to this position while it was moving to see if it would cut out.  It did not.  I was also worried about it cutting out when I discovered it didn't lock in the stored position so did this test in a safe environment.  If you ask me to verify this behavior while on it though, I won't.  heheh
I'm still worried about the trolley handle in a crash.  If it tumbles, this handle will likely come out from it's protected position and lock in the carry mode making it vulnerable to damage.  I personally think a spring loaded pop-up when the button is pressed would have been better.

[keetz]

8 minutes ago, Cranium said:

This is purely anecdotal but if you look at this video, the handle is locked in the carry mode and the wheel is going 20KPH on my treadmill.  I lifted it to this position while it was moving to see if it would cut out.  It did not.  I was also worried about it cutting out when I discovered it didn't lock in the stored position so did this test in a safe environment.  If you ask me to verify this behavior while on it though, I won't.  heheh
I'm still worried about the trolley handle in a crash.  If it tumbles, this handle will likely come out from it's protected position and lock in the carry mode making it vulnerable to damage.  I personally think a spring loaded pop-up when the button is pressed would have been better.

The problem with this test is you are forcing the wheel to spin at that speed.  If you were going at high speed, the handle pops up, and the wheel did in fact go into its carry mode, then the slow speed of this mode could potentially cause the user to lose the power needed to maintain their speed, causing them to fall forward.

We have evidence to suggest from the "ride off" story that the wheel will go into the slow speed carry mode while you are a riding it.

The only way we can confirm this is whether the firmware allows this to happen.  @Jack King Song could you please provide some insight?

[Rehab1]

28 minutes ago, Cranium said:

I don't think there are missing screws.  I checked mine and it is the same on both sides with two screws in the rear (no pun intended)

 

This wheel needs to be featured in an upcoming Terminator movie. Awesome look!

I found a few prosthetic devices in my lab to showcase the S18 struts. I actually like the color of the actuator motor on the myoelectric hand. 

 

[.....]

Missing screws and all my safety gear. Grow a pair fellas.... NOthing happens when you lift the handle while rolling. Same shit on my 18L. Good thing too, asphalt hurts and I had no clue wtf was gna happen. Video is first try, as I was half assed hoping youd get to see a faceplant too. Or for all you uppity types that think its a bad person who enjoys watching crashes, congrats, nothing to see here.  Fwiw, I did it with handle ALL the way up and at higher speed. Trolley is enabled in the app settings as well.  Vid had to be short to fit tho, and my fukn youtube wont let me login again. Damn floating ip and satellite bouncing ftl.

Edited July 28, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Patton250]

23 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Missing screws and all my safety gear. Grow a pair fellas.... NOthing happens when you lift the handle while rolling. Same shit on my 18L. Good thing too, asphalt hurts and I had no clue wtf was gna happen. Video is first try, as I was half assed hoping youd get to see a faceplant too. Or for all you uppity types that think its a bad person who enjoys watching crashes, congrats, nothing to see here.  Fwiw, I did it with handle ALL the way up and at higher speed. Trolley is enabled in the app settings as well.  Vid had to be short to fit tho, and my fukn youtube wont let me login again. Damn floating ip and satellite bouncing ftl.

 

Lol. Nutz. 

[Ben Hatfield]

14 hours ago, Cheizy said:

Got mine today and gave it a a go for about 20 miles. Beautiful wheel.

Couple quirks..

-this wheel wobbles even with the thicker padding. Granted I had to change my riding with the new contact points. I’m no expert rider but have put about 1000k on my v10. This S18 would wobble at 10mph randomly and during braking as well (had to adjust how I brake on this wheel). But the acceleration/cruise wobble is what scares me as I feel center of gravity is super high?? Anyone experiencing this during cruising? Feels unstable and definitely lowers confidence, even carving will not stop this type of wobble.

-shocks are easy to adjust, but I’m not as mind blown as I thought I would be. I feel like I need to play with the settings some more, so far I have it at 180/100 146lb ride weight. Not getting that sag/bounce back I’m looking for, feels like the shock is stuck and doesn’t want to move easily unless I exert a lot of force or jump up and down (have valve turned to positive) and red clicker tab max sensitive. City riding.

anyone have suggestions?

changing to a higher center of gravity (higher pedals) will increase the chance for a wobble - I noticed this on the MSP when I first started riding it (having higher pedals than my 18XL).  But all that time on the MSP must of helped, because I had almost no wobble issues going right up to 30 mph, braking hard, repeating.  I felt it kinda wobble a couple times, but nothing uncontrollable.  I'm assuming everything is as it should be on your wheel - if that isn't the case, then my experience isn't got to be much of a help.  But if your wheel is solid, it will just take time to gain that comfort.  Just ride to your comfort level.

I noticed with the shocks you want to fill them to where you want, then remove the valve (pump), then re-attach the pump to see where the levels actually end up.  When you unscrew the valve, air is lost from the chambers - So I found that over filling both chambers could then lead to the correct amount of pressure in each tank after unscrewing the pump from the shock.  You might want to add more pressure than you think to the negative chamber (bottom one).  I'm about your weight, and filled to your #'s (overfilling each chamber so that when I unscrewed it and some air was lost, I knew where it ended up) - and found the rebound was better.  Also make sure the rebound dial (red dial up top) is spun most (or all) the way counter clockwise (faster rebound) - if it's set all the way clockwise that reduces the rebound.

[Rehab1]

39 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Missing screws and all my safety gear. Grow a pair fellas....

You are a beast (in a good way). Your correct... I need to grow a pair. 

 

 

[Electric Dreams]

10 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

So far I've counted 5 screws missing on mine and I havent opened it at all. I have a total of 3 screws (tiny long ones) that are used to lower the pedal height. From factory setting, only 3 of the 4 holes line up each side. If i were to lower them, 4 of 4 would line up. However, I only had 3 screws total of the 6. I also note that one side of my white shell is missing 3 of the screws that hold it to the black inner fender, its very loose... WTF?! Looks like the pedal tab screws were installed with an axe... Why is so much development and time, being undermined by such terrible build practices? These screws cost NOTHING in bulk, but I dont have them here. I havent even opened it yet, but I am nervous of what I will find when I do. Im glad I paid extra to have it air shipped, so instead of riding, I can sit here and comb thru it. Its an hour drive to town during the pandemic, to buy $.50 worth of random screws. I'll have to get a hold of jason at ewheels, as Im not sure warranty still holds valid, if i dig deeper. One thing is certain, I can't put my faith in relying on a vehicle thats obviously missing pieces, but is expected to keep my chin off pavement at 25mph. THIS IS NOT a design flaw, nor is it something a newer revision will magically fix. Perhaps a better build method should be in place? Look over your wheels carefully, as mine seems to be put together in haste, with less than high pride in workmanship. Freaking upper shock valve is near impossible to get to, and YES I tried thru the padding as well. Its the inner plastic that gets in the way. Ugh.. I wanted to ride a unicycle this month, not work on one...

Please send me DM of screws that were loose. I've already responded to your concern over pumping, its the block that you didnt know what to do in the box. 

[Cranium]

39 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Missing screws and all my safety gear. Grow a pair fellas.... NOthing happens when you lift the handle while rolling.

Yup...I can confirm this as well.  I did this on my way home from work but at slow speeds. 

The behavior of the wheel is set up so that the trolley handle will beep and go into the low speed mode only when the wheel is stopped.  If the wheel is moving, it will not change the mode or beep.  While in low speed mode, if you try to ride it, it will be very spongy and the pedals will start to dip and low speed and continue dipping with more speed.  It isn't really rideable in this mode but certainly good enough to walk with or to ride very slowly.  

[Electric Dreams]

6 hours ago, Display name said:

I got my s18 yesterday and tried it out.

Could not get the kingsong app to run on my android phone so could not unlock the wheel.

Had to ask a friend with an Apple phone to download app and unlock my wheel.

At 20 kM/Hr the motor cut out.  I was able to balance and ride it out for a while until it was slow enough that when I lost my balance I was able to "run it out"

So no injuries.

I am wondering if a bump in the road could have caused the handle lifted enough to disengage the motor?

Any ideas how I can find out why this happened?  I don't want it to happen again because I am not sure I will be as lucky with my balancing/slow down.

 

Please send me your serial number. 

The positions of the handle whilst in action will not cause motor to disengage, aka if your riding over bumpy terrain and all of the sudden the handle is pushed to lift handle position it wont go into 'lift mode' 

[Electric Dreams]

2 hours ago, keetz said:

I've gotten around 15 miles under my belt with this wheel...

After hearing about this "cutout" ride off story, I'm a bit scared of this wheel now.

It seems like a huge oversight and safety risk that the trolley handle does not lock down in its lowest position.  

If hitting decent bump at high speed causes the handle to pop up into the low position "slow speed" carry mode, then it's likely going to be a bad day for the rider... I don't think most will be lucky enough to ride it off when cruising in the upper 20's.

Lifting up the handle or it going into lift mode will not cause wheel to cut out. The wheel has to come to a stop, then you have to lift handle into position and you'll hear the classic KS beep before the motor is in lift mode. 

[Electric Dreams]

29 minutes ago, Ben Hatfield said:

changing to a higher center of gravity (higher pedals) will increase the chance for a wobble - I noticed this on the MSP when I first started riding it (having higher pedals than my 18XL).  But all that time on the MSP must of helped, because I had almost no wobble issues going right up to 30 mph, braking hard, repeating.  I felt it kinda wobble a couple times, but nothing uncontrollable.  I'm assuming everything is as it should be on your wheel - if that isn't the case, then my experience isn't got to be much of a help.  But if your wheel is solid, it will just take time to gain that comfort.  Just ride to your comfort level.

I noticed with the shocks you want to fill them to where you want, then remove the valve (pump), then re-attach the pump to see where the levels actually end up.  When you unscrew the valve, air is lost from the chambers - So I found that over filling both chambers could then lead to the correct amount of pressure in each tank after unscrewing the pump from the shock.  You might want to add more pressure than you think to the negative chamber (bottom one).  I'm about your weight, and filled to your #'s (overfilling each chamber so that when I unscrewed it and some air was lost, I knew where it ended up) - and found the rebound was better.  Also make sure the rebound dial (red dial up top) is spun most (or all) the way counter clockwise (faster rebound) - if it's set all the way clockwise that reduces the rebound.

I suggest watching this video:

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Jack King Song

[Rehab1]

4 minutes ago, Jack King Song said:

Lifting up the handle or it going into lift mode will not cause wheel to cut out. The wheel has to come to a stop, then you have to lift handle into position and you'll hear the classic KS beep before the motor is in lift mode. 

So glad your involved and making yourself available to answer member’s questions !

[.....]

25 minutes ago, Cranium said:

Yup...I can confirm this as well.  I did this on my way home from work but at slow speeds. 

The behavior of the wheel is set up so that the trolley handle will beep and go into the low speed mode only when the wheel is stopped.  If the wheel is moving, it will not change the mode or beep.  While in low speed mode, if you try to ride it, it will be very spongy and the pedals will start to dip and low speed and continue dipping with more speed.  It isn't really rideable in this mode but certainly good enough to walk with or to ride very slowly.  

I am always skeptical of design changes, but I am warming up to how they changed this one. I know, its very rare I like something new, but I think its the best compromise for a trolley this low. Being able to snatch the wheel up easily without having to find that button with my thumb, will prove a safety benefit. I can tell that it could be hard to hit that button and lift, while moving or from different angles. THink about how seamless it is on the 18l style. YOu pull up to steps, stop, grab handle and carry it. No mucking about with buttons or anything. Now imagine if you had to push that button down and stop it at first click, THEN lift. Its doesnt sound much, but its not fluid. Wear on parts too. If i had to push the button on the s18 to lift it, it is not fluid. Also, what if I push the button and lift it but it doesnt stop at the lowest setting? I know, its not much to worry over, but having it lift like it does and go into slow roll mode, seems pretty damn smart. I HATE admitting it, but i can see the logic. I was worried about it falling free spin when lifting it (as in reviews showed us), slow mode fixed it. If theres no drawbacks while riding (not crashing), i call it an improvement. I know the compromise is that it MAY be damaged if it flips up during a roll, but it seems worth the trade.

So yeah, kudos to KS for the handle approach. I also got to feel the suspension bounce a couple times finally..... AMAZING so far. Its like riding on a big ole soft tire but not hitting rim. I can only imagine what its going to enable as far as rocky rutted paths...

Edited July 29, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Mark Wilson]

7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I know the compromise is that it MAY be damaged if it flips up during a roll, but it seems worth the trade.

How likely do you think it would come up during a crash? Isn't that a big problem with the MSX/MSP? The handle comes up in a crash and the weight of the wheel landing on it breaks it off.

[Display name]

16 minutes ago, Jack King Song said:

Please send me your serial number. 

The positions of the handle whilst in action will not cause motor to disengage, aka if your riding over bumpy terrain and all of the sudden the handle is pushed to lift handle position it wont go into 'lift mode' 

Can I get the serial number without using the kingsong app?

The app doesn't run on my android phone.

I was just guessing what may have caused the issue.

Could it have been that I started riding with the handle extended and it only got up to a certain speed?

I just want to figure out what caused me to fall off the wheel so I can avoid it happening again.

I have 3 years of daily riding with the KS16 so am not a new rider.

Cheers

Mike

 

 

[eve]

4 minutes ago, Display name said:

Could it have been that I started riding with the handle extended and it only got up to a certain speed?

Just put the handle back in when you ride. If you ride with the handle out, youre in slow mode which is used for carrying the EUC in your hand. So its very easy to cutout in that mode.

[Electric Dreams]

1 minute ago, Display name said:

Can I get the serial number without using the kingsong app?

The app doesn't run on my android phone.

I was just guessing what may have caused the issue.

Could it have been that I started riding with the handle extended and it only got up to a certain speed?

I just want to figure out what caused me to fall off the wheel so I can avoid it happening again.

I have 3 years of daily riding with the KS16 so am not a new rider.

Cheers

Mike

 

 

1. Can you please DM me the app issue, I want to keep this thread as close to the S18 as possible.
2. I've been testing the handle function and its safety for the past 2 weeks in various situations and havent had an issue, so I find the handle probability very unlikely. 

• lifted before riding
• lifted after riding
• lifting and pushing it back down and while riding
• etc

With all that being said, please ride under the same conditions but please wear safety gear and avoid traffic to test the wheel and please let me know if it occurs. Please inform your seller as well, I assume @Jason McNeil from  eWheels. 

[.....]

1 hour ago, Mark Wilson said:

How likely do you think it would come up during a crash? Isn't that a big problem with the MSX/MSP? The handle comes up in a crash and the weight of the wheel landing on it breaks it off.

No idea, but it is pretty light, so it may take some serious inertia to bring it up. If someone was overly concerned, I'd bet they could snug the gap with some foam tape or similar, to induce a friction point. The handle isnt overly durable, but it also seems it shouldnt be too costly. I guess if it was a big issue during hardcore offroad, One could always lay a strip of painters tape across and retack it after pulling it up by force? I hope to not find out how much crash it takes, anytime overly soon.

[RockyTop]

5 hours ago, EUChristian said:

I figured it out...the people on the white production line were stressed to make their quotas while the people on the black VIP production line took their time...

You might be right about that. Mine is black and I have not found any defects yet.