King Song S18 Discussion

[ND4SPD]

On 7/1/2020 at 1:04 AM, mrelwood said:

The price difference between brands vary wildly around the world. In EU the V11 costs the same or less than the 18XL. Not that there’d be much wrong with the 18XL, but it’s an old wheel, and specs wise the V11 beats it in everything but the near identical battery size (1554 vs 1500 Wh).

 Comparing specs/price tends to always refer to GW. Of course they are cheaper, they are of lower quality in materials, manufacturing and design.

 Comparing speed, same thing. GW (and now it’s disciple Veteran) are the only brand that has made a wheel faster than the V11. Most riders don’t need a faster wheel.

Comparing battery again points to GW. For the range of 1554Wh 18XL, you need a GW with 2100Wh of battery. Both V11 and S18 allow lower riding voltage than GW, so it’s range should be somewhere in the middle. Should be no problem far outriding a 1600Wh GW.

 If you look at any deeper than skin deep into the specs, you could say that GW’s are the overpriced ones, since so much of the expensive and heavy battery is left unused.

Different needs and requirements.

Can you please explain to me how a 1554wh 18XL gets the same range as a 2100wh Nikola?

[Mark Wilson]

Chooch and the S18 in their element. I might have to buy this wheel.

 

[Scottie888]

Watching this latest Chooch vid just cements my decision in making the right choice with the S18. Looking forward on his suspension setup tips as hopefully, I'll be out "there" doing some of this stuff. Its what life's all about esp in this age of social distancing. Can't wait to scare some MTB'ers on the mountains!😜

Love how he saved that pedal clip that woulda likely sunk most other other wheels.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Sorry KingSong, after a long wait and consideration I ordered an MSP 2500W today, although I (and my overloaded ankle joints) would have loved to have an S18 with suspension. 

Unfortunately the small battery and the lack of a quick charge option made me hesitate to be a 1st batch customer again. The longer I waited and thought about it, the further away the S18 got. Reasons are the economy measures at the control board, at the material, at the shock absorber and the fact that you prefer to use one of the narrowest tires instead of constructing the wheel cover in such a way that nearly every tire fits in the size. Ideally even an off-road tire. 

So I prefer to use a wheel that I don't like neither from the look nor from the quality, but at least I can mount a studded tire and make further tours and I don't have to go back after 20 km because the battery is empty and I don't have time to recharge the battery for 2 hours in the restaurant. 

Let's see what comes next year. 

[Rywokast]

Just now, buell47 said:

Sorry KingSong, after a long wait and consideration I ordered an MSP 2500W today, although I (and my overloaded ankle joints) would have loved to have an S18 with suspension. 

Unfortunately the small battery and the lack of a quick charge option made me hesitate to be a 1st batch customer again. The longer I waited and thought about it, the further away the S18 got. Reasons are the economy measures at the control board, at the material, at the shock absorber and the fact that you prefer to use one of the narrowest tires instead of constructing the wheel cover in such a way that nearly every tire fits in the size. Ideally even an off-road tire. 

So I prefer to use a wheel that I don't like neither from the look nor from the quality, but at least I can mount a studded tire and make further tours and I don't have to go back after 20 km because the battery is empty and I don't have time to recharge the battery for 2 hours in the restaurant. 

Let's see what comes next year. 

no interest in V11?

[Mark Wilson]

3 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Sorry KingSong, after a long wait and consideration I ordered an MSP 2500W today, although I (and my overloaded ankle joints) would have loved to have an S18 with suspension. 

Unfortunately the small battery and the lack of a quick charge option made me hesitate to be a 1st batch customer again. The longer I waited and thought about it, the further away the S18 got. Reasons are the economy measures at the control board, at the material, at the shock absorber and the fact that you prefer to use one of the narrowest tires instead of constructing the wheel cover in such a way that nearly every tire fits in the size. Ideally even an off-road tire. 

So I prefer to use a wheel that I don't like neither from the look nor from the quality, but at least I can mount a studded tire and make further tours and I don't have to go back after 20 km because the battery is empty and I don't have time to recharge the battery for 2 hours in the restaurant. 

Let's see what comes next year. 

I had forgotten about the small tire space issue that some reviewers mentioned in regards to the preproduction wheel. I don't remember hearing that was updated for the final release model either. Does this mean that off-road specific tires are simply out of the question when it comes to this wheel?

[.....]

1 minute ago, Mark Wilson said:

I had forgotten about the small tire space issue that some reviewers mentioned in regards to the preproduction wheel. I don't remember hearing that was updated for the final release model either. Does this mean that off-road specific tires are simply out of the question when it comes to this wheel?

That's pretty much how I'm seeing it. I hope I'm wrong..

[Mark Wilson]

That would be a pretty big oversight (in my opinion) if this off-road focused wheel can't fit any off-road focused tires. Hopefully this isn't the case.

[Scottie888]

Chooch seems to be doing well on the standard tires on the pre production demo. The offroad tire will likely bring more traction on wet grass & muddy terrain. It would be slightly disappointing if there's no offroad tire option but then, I don't plan to ride in inclemental weather so it might not be a biggie for me. The terrain conditions in Chooch's vids are what we have here in Southern Alberta.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

21 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

no interest in V11?

Since I bought a Gotway now, we have to leave the optics of the V11 out. 

Surely the V11 damping is better than no damping at all, but actually it is not enough for me. What I have seen so far makes me doubt that it is suitable for my purpose. 

I also lack a bit of more speed, which I could forgive the S18 if all the other things were not there. 

The V11 with 55km/h from 100 to 80 % is more of a joke. Should know everyone who has been seriously involved with it. 

I also don't like the fact that only the pedals are sprung and the fact that the shoes are constantly grinding on the housing when the spring is compressed. Then to fill a damping synchronously at four different places and to have to unscrew the saddle. 

The V11 is definitely not a usable hardcore offroad wheel, but rather a gravel road cruiser. 

But for another purpose it is certainly a super wheel. 

 

 

[Rywokast]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

Since I bought a Gotway now, we have to leave the optics of the V11 out. 

Surely the V11 damping is better than no damping at all, but actually it is not enough for me. What I have seen so far makes me doubt that it is suitable for my purpose. 

I also lack a bit of more speed, which I could forgive the S18 if all the other things were not there. 

The V11 with 55km/h from 100 to 80 % is more of a joke. Should know everyone who has been seriously involved with it. 

I also don't like the fact that only the pedals are sprung and the fact that the shoes are constantly grinding on the housing when the spring is compressed. Then to fill a damping synchronously at four different places and to have to unscrew the saddle. 

The V11 is definitely not a usable hardcore offroad wheel, but rather a gravel road cruiser. 

But for another purpose it is certainly a super wheel. 

yea its a bit of a toss up, msp is stronger, faster, smaller, and has a larger battery.. v11 has mediocre suspension (obviously better than none though), better build quality, and subjectively better looks... completely different demographic... a 19" fat soft thats on the msp im sure offers plenty of suspension on its own.. its just a real shame that the s18 has such a small battery because it could have blown the v11 out of the water, but now they appeal to different demographics

[Scottie888]

Hey guys I caught this on the S18 vs V11 comparo on ewheels.com saying there's a 780wh optional external power pack. Anyone know anything about that?

 

[redfoxdude]

15 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Hey guys I caught this on the S18 vs V11 comparo on ewheels.com saying there's a 780wh optional external power pack. Anyone know anything about that?

Yep, it's this: https://www.kingsong.com/show-45-37.html
Mr. Flex's review: https://youtu.be/rHVpARlWrIs?t=75
The selectable output can be set for 84V at 3A. Jason said that is >50% of the battery consumption assuming a cruising speed of around 20MPH, so above that and you'd would still be depleting the battery, just slower. They have them for $650.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by redfoxdude

[Scottie888]

3 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

Yep, it's this: https://www.kingsong.com/show-45-37.html

The selectable output can be set for 84V at 3A. Jason said that is >50% of the battery consumption assuming a cruising speed of around 20MPH. They have them for $650.

Its about 10lbs. Wonder if its capable of charging on the go or rather using it as a power source like the internal battery while moving. If possible, then its not impossible to put the power pack on a backpack & plug it in for the return journey. Pretty cool concept 'cept its rather expensive.

[redfoxdude]

1 minute ago, Scottie888 said:

Its about 10lbs. Wonder if its capable of charging on the go or rather using it as a power source like the internal battery while moving. If possible, then its not impossible to put the power pack on a backpack & plug it in for the return journey. Pretty cool concept 'cept its rather expensive.

Oh yeah, I wasn't super clear on that, but it can provide that 3A of current to the charge port while you are riding. I added a link to my post above to Mr. Flex's video about it, he shows it in action. Not enough to keep the wheel from depleting if you are riding hard, but it would still provide some extra range for sure. Kind of an interesting proposition. I'd probably want to put a tie down point for the charging cable on the top of the wheel though, to prevent strain to the charging port. 

[Steef Klonoa]

For an extra $650, might as well just get the sherman at that point

[Scottie888]

6 minutes ago, Steef Klonoa said:

For an extra $650, might as well just get the sherman at that point

Yaa but then the Sherm that weighs a coupla hairs shy of 80lbs won't have suspension & definitely won't be able to do what the S18 does offroad. Naah its not worth the $$$ for the battery pack although its a very interesting concept.

I still support getting the Sherm as a high speed city cruiser & the S18 for offroad duties.

[Steef Klonoa]

@Scottie888 True, the weight of the sherman is not desirable in my use case. But it does have speed and range, and that big tire eats up the bumps. Someone mentioned earlier, I can't remember his username but if they had this external battery in a seat, that would really help because you wouldn't have to string it from your backpack. Thought that was a great idea.

I have heard Kingsong is known for firmware upgrades that improve ride quality on the wheel in terms of braking, etc. I guess that wouldn't be able to help the range though.

[Mr A.A]

S18 for the win, they have a large audience.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Mr A.A

[Rywokast]

3 hours ago, Steef Klonoa said:

@Scottie888 True, the weight of the sherman is not desirable in my use case. But it does have speed and range, and that big tire eats up the bumps. Someone mentioned earlier, I can't remember his username but if they had this external battery in a seat, that would really help because you wouldn't have to string it from your backpack. Thought that was a great idea.

I have heard Kingsong is known for firmware upgrades that improve ride quality on the wheel in terms of braking, etc. I guess that wouldn't be able to help the range though.

it would definitely be able to help in range... they could make the wheel exponentially slower to respond, or limit the top speed more and falsify it in the app if they wanted to

[RoCan]

33 minutes ago, Mr A.A said:

S18 for the win, they have a large audience.

 

They didn’t go into much detail on the S18. I wonder if they thought it better to concentrate on promoting the almost legal,  easy to use for beginners scooters. Bit rubbish but will hopefully keep the numbers down.

[EUChristian]

Those who know the electronics and the case structure of the S18 here - how simple or complex would it be to add custom accent LED lighting like some motorcycles have behind a panel in each side to light everything up?  Is there sufficient space to keep them hidden?  Could this be hooked in somewhere to automatically light when the machine is turned on without having a secondary switch?  This and a wrap job will be sick...I see the ability to customize this in a bad ass way and want to immediately get to work when I receive in August.   
 

Edited July 18, 2020 by EUChristian

[fryman]

16 hours ago, buell47 said:

Sorry KingSong, after a long wait and consideration I ordered an MSP 2500W today, although I (and my overloaded ankle joints) would have loved to have an S18 with suspension. 

Unfortunately the small battery and the lack of a quick charge option made me hesitate to be a 1st batch customer again. The longer I waited and thought about it, the further away the S18 got. Reasons are the economy measures at the control board, at the material, at the shock absorber and the fact that you prefer to use one of the narrowest tires instead of constructing the wheel cover in such a way that nearly every tire fits in the size. Ideally even an off-road tire. 

So I prefer to use a wheel that I don't like neither from the look nor from the quality, but at least I can mount a studded tire and make further tours and I don't have to go back after 20 km because the battery is empty and I don't have time to recharge the battery for 2 hours in the restaurant. 

Let's see what comes next year. 

I was thinking MSP for awhile, but I just can’t get past the looks and the loud fan. My wait continues. 😕

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

15 minutes ago, fryman said:

I was thinking MSP for awhile, but I just can’t get past the looks and the loud fan. My wait continues. 😕

Yes, I know all the downsides of the MSP and it was a hard decision to pull the trigger. But if you want a faster wheel as the 16X and no downgrade in offroad capabilities, there is actually no way around. 

I know I'll hate a lot of of the MSP, but if you want a good faster alternative to the 16X, there is no other wheel on the market which fit my needs. 

[mrelwood]

On 7/17/2020 at 6:25 PM, ND4SPD said:

Can you please explain to me how a 1554wh 18XL gets the same range as a 2100wh Nikola?

When each battery cell reaches 3.3V, GW considers the battery empty and will force the rider off with a tilt-back. At the same time 18XL still shows about 25% battery left, and will let the rider ride at above 40km/h.

 

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Surely the V11 damping is better than no damping at all, but actually it is not enough for me.

Not good enough, so you opt for an even worse solution?  I don’t quite see the logic.

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I also don't like the fact that only the pedals are sprung and the fact that the shoes are constantly grinding on the housing

I haven’t seen anyone mention about this after riding the V11. This is most probably not an issue, the pedal column should stop the shoe before it can reach the housing.

Quote

The V11 is definitely not a usable hardcore offroad wheel, but rather a gravel road cruiser.

I aim to prove you wrong. It will replace my MSX as a hard core off-road wheel. The YT clips on V11 at steep inclines alone are very assuring. And for example braking power that trumps the S18’s.

Quote

v11 has mediocre suspension

No-one who has ridden the V11 demo unit has called the suspension “mediocre”. Furthermore, the shocks have been upgraded for the production version, to which some reviewers have commented that in some situations the difference to the S18 was nonexistent.

Quote

a 19" fat soft thats on the msp im sure offers plenty of suspension on its own..

The V11 has the same exact tire (CST C-1488) than the MSP.

Quote

its just a real shame that the s18 has such a small battery because it could have blown the v11 out of the water

Sounds like you haven’t watched many V11 reviews. Evx’s direct comparison for example. KS has a long way to drag the S18 out of the ditch the demo unit is in.

17 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Hey guys I caught this on the S18 vs V11 comparo on ewheels.com

Worth mentioning that almost all V11 specs on the comparison have since been upgraded for the production version. 85mm, 2200W, 55km/h, 2.5A. And neither wheel will have the H-666 tire.

Edited July 18, 2020 by mrelwood