King Song S18 Discussion

[FreeRide]

8 hours ago, onizukagto said:

....

I doubt anyone will ride the s18 as the only EUC and as a daily commuter (but i'm sure someone will prove me wrong. lol) 
.....

So you doubt, but you are sure you are wrong?  

I can be almost certain more than one will use the S18 as a commuter wheel, and a few of those it will be their only wheel.  It's a perfect commuter for shorter commutes which are ideal for EUCs and some people only have an EUC for commuting and small errands.  The price will limit this a bit I believe, but I think the group is big enough that the intersection will exist.  These people don't frequent the forums, but they are out there.

[Patton250]

38 minutes ago, B08AH said:

This is a revolution compared to evolution. Sherman's +10kmh is a marginal improvement over existing gotway wheels (even though it needs progressively more power).

Suspension is not a marginal improvement, it is a game changer. Even though it is slower and has less range, it still makes all those faster wheels obsolete.

also the metal frame. It does not contribute to speed and such, but it has to be much more solid, has to be the first wheel to allow heavy riders do one-legged riding without tire rubbing on bent shell.

Yeah well we’re going to find out if it’s a game changer or not. If it’s such a game changer then why are all the people who review them not as moved by the S 18 and V11 as they are the Veteran? No offense but I’m going to personally try to not confuse your personal enthusiasm versus what the final outcome will be and we don’t know what that is yet. 

[EUChristian]

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

Well let me put it this way since I don’t think you understood where I was coming from. If I were an American combat pilot in 1960 and a new fighter jet came out and Chuck Yeager after flying it for a few days said that it was the greatest jet he had ever flown by far and everyone who knew him and had been watching him for years saw excitement coming from him they’ve never seen before I would probably take his opinion pretty seriously. Well Marty and Ian are the Chuck Yeagers of the EUC community in my opinion along with Kuji of course. After watching dozens of reviews on other wheels from all these men I’ve never seen their reaction to wheel like they have reacted to the Sherman. So when you ask is it really something new? My answer is,,,,,, um yeah. It’s the fastest wheel both in acceleration and top end speed with the biggest battery. It also seems to be the most durable with the most powerful headlamp. That is a lot of “news”. Lol. Not to mention it’s a brand new company. So there is one more “new”. The only thing new about the S18 is the shock which I must admit seems to be pretty freaking awesome. Other than that there is nothing new on that wheel. I too have all three new wheels on order and I will actually get the V11 next week. However I’m most excited about the Sherman. I’m pretty depressed I have to wait until August to get it. 

“Also seems to be the most durable”. You’re going to have to explain that to me since you just made it up. There is no way you can know the durability of this wheel since it hasn’t been released yet and the people who tested it literally had it for three days. Come now just because it has a roll cage you believe it leads somehow to durability?  Because the front headlamp you are impressed with got broken off during the initial trial with the second or third person to review it on the first fall. Now it just durably hangs there. My KS16 still has its light after three years and 400+ falls. 
 

Suspension is new tech. Period. Hasn’t been done yet. Bigger batteries and faster speed isn’t new tech, it’s progressive tech that’s getting better. You can call that “new” but the more precise word is “better” - if we are correctly in context of this argument using the word “new” to symbolize something not done before vs something recently released at the top of its class.  If the latter, the MSP is “new” as well. Also the coffee in my hand is new. 
 

I will be getting a Sherman too...ride is amazing based on those reviews...but it’s not the end all be all wheel. Everything is a trade off. When someone plows into a pedestrian at 40mph because braking a two ton machine is close to impossible, we will have “new” regulations and “new” fines for riding. Good thing I can take the S18 off road. Value going up daily. 
 

appreciate the Yeager reference though awesome metaphor, they are the Yeagers of our sport indeed. 

[chopsywa]

Wow, lot's of religious wheel wars going on between KS and Sherman. I looked at some reviews on both and if I had the spare cash, I would definitely be looking at the KS S18. This looks like the cat's pyjamas. Seeing people ride down and up stairs blew me away. I can't get over how many people are ordering both. I would love to get just one (the KS). Unfortunately I blew my cash on a Tesla with 2170s, about 4000 of them. 

 

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

“Also seems to be the most durable”. You’re going to have to explain that to me since you just made it up. There is no way you can know the durability of this wheel since it hasn’t been released yet and the people who tested it literally had it for three days. Come now just because it has a roll cage you believe it leads somehow to durability?  Because the front headlamp you are impressed with got broken off during the initial trial with the second or third person to review it on the first fall. Now it just durably hangs there. My KS16 still has its light after three years and 400+ falls. 
 

Suspension is new tech. Period. Hasn’t been done yet. Bigger batteries and faster speed isn’t new tech, it’s progressive tech that’s getting better. You can call that “new” but the more precise word is “better” - if we are correctly in context of this argument using the word “new” to symbolize something not done before vs something recently released at the top of its class.  If the latter, the MSP is “new” as well. Also the coffee in my hand is new. 
 

I will be getting a Sherman too...ride is amazing based on those reviews...but it’s not the end all be all wheel. Everything is a trade off. When someone plows into a pedestrian at 40mph because braking a two ton machine is close to impossible, we will have “new” regulations and “new” fines for riding. Good thing I can take the S18 off road. Value going up daily. 
 

appreciate the Yeager reference though awesome metaphor, they are the Yeagers of our sport indeed. 

I watched the New York boys bounce it down the street at 40 mph. Try that with a gotway monster or a 16X and get back to me.  Gezzz. Lol

[Patton250]

47 minutes ago, chopsywa said:

Wow, lot's of religious wheel wars going on between KS and Sherman. I looked at some reviews on both and if I had the spare cash, I would definitely be looking at the KS S18. This looks like the cat's pyjamas. Seeing people ride down and up stairs blew me away. I can't get over how many people are ordering both. I would love to get just one (the KS). Unfortunately I blew my cash on a Tesla with 2170s, about 4000 of them. 

 

Not really man. I own all of them and I’m getting all three of these new wheels. All I’m saying is from the reviews I’ve watched the veteran appears to be by far the most impressive and made the most impact on these highly experienced EUC riders/ reviewers. Apparently some of the guys here aren’t watching the same videos/ reviews I’m watching. Oh and I have absolutely no brand loyalty. 

[jimjam.nyc]

47 minutes ago, chopsywa said:

Wow, lot's of religious wheel wars going on between KS and Sherman. I looked at some reviews on both and if I had the spare cash, I would definitely be looking at the KS S18. This looks like the cat's pyjamas. Seeing people ride down and up stairs blew me away. I can't get over how many people are ordering both. I would love to get just one (the KS). Unfortunately I blew my cash on a Tesla with 2170s, about 4000 of them. 

 

Yeah the brand loyalty is unfortunately a thing.. There is also a lot of bandwagon/fomo going on around here since the announcements of all of these wheels. hehehe

I just want to point out.. that none of the things coming out is actually "new" technology.. Suspension on things with tires has been around along time.. The way these wheels are being suspended are not re-inventing the wheel (yes pun intended). Its just fitting existing tech to the EUC form factor.. Which is great.. dont get me wrong.. but lets not make believe KS or IM have come up with this amazing new technology here.. 

As far as the sherman.. I will just say... "greatest wheel ever made" can be attached to many different wheels over the past few years... That is until then next best thing comes out.. Which will always happen.. 

I still say.. purchase what you want, feel good about it.. and enjoy it.. Justification is not needed! 

Also i respect all these reviewers and youtubers.. but please remember they mostly all get sponsored, and they all have opinions like you and I... Take their info to make informed decisions.. but don't get caught up in the hype.. 

[EUChristian]

5 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Yeah the brand loyalty is unfortunately a thing.. There is also a lot of bandwagon/fomo going on around here since the announcements of all of these wheels. hehehe

I just want to point out.. that none of the things coming out is actually "new" technology.. Suspension on things with tires has been around along time.. The way these wheels are being suspended are not re-inventing the wheel (yes pun intended). Its just fitting existing tech to the EUC form factor.. Which is great.. dont get me wrong.. but lets not make believe KS or IM have come up with this amazing new technology here.. 

As far as the sherman.. I will just say... "greatest wheel ever made" can be attached to many different wheels over the past few years... That is until then next best thing comes out.. Which will always happen.. 

I still say.. purchase what you want, feel good about it.. and enjoy it.. Justification is not needed! 

Also i respect all these reviewers and youtubers.. but please remember they mostly all get sponsored, and they all have opinions like you and I... Take their info to make informed decisions.. but don't get caught up in the hype.. 

I agree but think you dodged a point with semantics. “New” technology to electric unicycles. No one is claiming the tech itself is new. Just new to this application. And the design of the tech is absolutely new since you can’t just shove a shock into the wheel without designing it that way. 
 

And like I said the Sherman seems awesome...but it doesn’t do anything “new” minus a roll cage, which should be standard on all wheels to some degree. It just does older tech very, very well.

[EUChristian]

18 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Not really man. I own all of them and I’m getting all three of these new wheels. All I’m saying is from the reviews I’ve watched the veteran appears to be by far the most impressive and made the most impact on these highly experienced EUC riders/ reviewers. Apparently some of the guys here aren’t watching the same videos/ reviews I’m watching. Oh and I have absolutely no brand loyalty. 

I’m in the Sherman thread and watching the videos and I see a bunch of early problems just like the S18 experienced. You must have missed them. I watched a video of the headlight braking off clean, Kuji’s tire blowing in under 5 miles, getting the tire pump on the valve sucks, etc. And I’m sure they will work on fixing these things and I can’t wait to get one!  
 

But you can’t compare these two wheels at all, they aren’t even in the same universe for utilities sake.  Not sure how we got here, I imagine it was because of debating what “new” means lol

Edited July 10, 2020 by EUChristian

[jimjam.nyc]

9 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I watched the New York boys bounce it down the street at 40 mph. Try that with a gotway monster or a 16X and get back to me.  Gezzz. Lol

I cant speak about the monster since i dont have one.  but i have crashed the 16x at speed a few times.. It is pretty durable.. lets be fair.. I get that it doesn't have steel rollcage, and may not be able to handle a 40mph crash.. but it doesnt have to.. it cant go 40mph ;-). 

Also before i purchased it, i watched the reviews.. Kuji specifically had tossed that thing around pretty hard.. Its not like the sherman.. but it can hold its own in durability for the speed it can handle.. which in all fairness is all that is needed.. 

The sherman is literally a tank.. and i agree it is probably the most durable out there.. but it better well be considering its weight and how fast it can go. 

The lights breaking and things.. well its a double edged sword.. They are modular which makes it great.. but they are also a little more delicate since they are exposed.. Personally i think it is a very well thought out wheel.. which is what makes it so appealing to me.. 

[EUChristian]

When I watched this

I literally see an entire factory of white wheels  - black wheels must be kept in the VIP section in the back for the elite 1%  🤪

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by EUChristian

[Patton250]

9 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I cant speak about the monster since i dont have one.  but i have crashed the 16x at speed a few times.. It is pretty durable.. lets be fair.. I get that it doesn't have steel rollcage, and may not be able to handle a 40mph crash.. but it doesnt have to.. it cant go 40mph ;-). 

Also before i purchased it, i watched the reviews.. Kuji specifically had tossed that thing around pretty hard.. Its not like the sherman.. but it can hold its own in durability for the speed it can handle.. which in all fairness is all that is needed.. 

The sherman is literally a tank.. and i agree it is probably the most durable out there.. but it better well be considering its weight and how fast it can go. 

The lights breaking and things.. well its a double edged sword.. They are modular which makes it great.. but they are also a little more delicate since they are exposed.. Personally i think it is a very well thought out wheel.. which is what makes it so appealing to me.. 

I agree about the 16X. It’s one of my favorites that I own. It’s pretty durable and most definitely more durable then my Nik+. 

[Steven89]

2 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

When I watched this

I literally see an entire factory of white wheels  - black wheels must be kept in the VIP section in the back for the elite 1%  🤪

 

I wonder if the "white panels" are easily replaceable and buyable. If the cost isn't too hight one could change color from time to time 

[Patton250]

13 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

I’m in the Sherman thread and watching the videos and I see a bunch of early problems just like the S18 experienced. You must have missed them. I watched a video of the headlight braking off clean, Kuji’s tire blowing in under 5 miles, getting the tire pump on the valve sucks, etc. And I’m sure they will work on fixing these things and I can’t wait to get one!  
 

But you can’t compare these two wheels at all, they aren’t even in the same universe for utilities sake.  Not sure how we got here, I imagine it was because of debating what “new” means lol

The light breaking off in a major crash it’s not a problem. It’s a crash. Kuji putting a non-stock tire on it and having it fail in 5 miles it’s not a problem either. It’s an install problem. The only problem I see with the Sherman is the plastic screen and the lack of a mudflap both of which can be fixed.
 

This discussion started when I said I was considering dropping my pre-order of the S 18 because of the V11 would fill the shock wanting itch and all the reviews I’ve watched it seems the Sherman is definitely the wheel to have this year. Those two are 5K in wheels. Lol. I pointed out the S18 has the same motor as my 16X and KS18XL (upgraded motor) so nothing new other then the bad ass suspension. 

[FinRider]

42 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I still say.. purchase what you want, feel good about it.. and enjoy it.. Justification is not needed! 

Can I give you my wifes phone number so you can call her and repeat this to her? She does not believe me when I try to say the exact same thing..

[EUChristian]

15 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

The light breaking off in a major crash it’s not a problem. It’s a crash. Kuji putting a non-stock tire on it and having it fail in 5 miles it’s not a problem either. It’s an install problem. The only problem I see with the Sherman is the plastic screen and the lack of a mudflap both of which can be fixed.
 

This discussion started when I said I was considering dropping my pre-order of the S 18 because of the V11 would fill the shock wanting itch and all the reviews I’ve watched it seems the Sherman is definitely the wheel to have this year. Those two are 5K in wheels. Lol. I pointed out the S18 has the same motor as my 16X and KS18XL (upgraded motor) so nothing new other then the bad ass suspension. 

Got it and I agree. I see your point on the expense!

 

also I have a feeling the Sherman’s weight makes it act like it has suspension in a sense. Not as responsive but it will take a bump much better than a lighter wheel (excluding the size is the tire which helps too obviously)

Edited July 10, 2020 by EUChristian

[Shield]

6 minutes ago, FinRider said:

Can I give you my wifes phone number so you can call her and repeat this to her? She does not believe me when I try to say the exact same thing..

It is often easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

5 hours ago, AtlasP said:

or possibly higher as some claim newer 16X firmware starts throttling closer to 60%

Someone I don't know, who knows someone, who knows someone else, and who thinks he believes someone else said that the 16X already throttles at 60%.

If you don't know about the 16X and you don't know anybody who knows anybody....... has no idea either, you shouldn't make a calculation with such values and compare it with other wheels in a negative sense, just to make your V11/S18 world look the way you want it to look.

Edited July 10, 2020 by buell47

[jimjam.nyc]

15 minutes ago, FinRider said:

Can I give you my wifes phone number so you can call her and repeat this to her? She does not believe me when I try to say the exact same thing..

I probably should have added.. As long as your significant other is ok with it :-)

My wife luckily has been ok with my euc purchases.. But i haven't exactly gone overboard just yet! 

[Patton250]

33 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

Got it and I agree. I see your point on the expense!

 

also I have a feeling the Sherman’s weight makes it act like it has suspension in a sense. Not as responsive but it will take a bump much better than a lighter wheel (excluding the size is the tire which helps too obviously)

BTW I love KS. I own (2) KS16S’s, the 18XL and 16X. I don’t own a Inmotion yet so that is what is making me lean in that direction. I honestly think the shock system on the S18 looks better and probably functions better the the V11. 

[jimjam.nyc]

59 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

I agree but think you dodged a point with semantics. “New” technology to electric unicycles. No one is claiming the tech itself is new. Just new to this application. And the design of the tech is absolutely new since you can’t just shove a shock into the wheel without designing it that way. 
 

And like I said the Sherman seems awesome...but it doesn’t do anything “new” minus a roll cage, which should be standard on all wheels to some degree. It just does older tech very, very well.

valid points.. I was more just leaning into the point of that the innovation is in the design element.. not in the technology element.. I guess i didnt word it exactly the proper way!

I also just wanted to point out that.. mostly hype is driving some of these convos.. People are hyped and rightfully so, but nobody should feel bad about purchasing the wheel they want. 

I have a feeling all three of these new wheels will sell and review pretty good.. 

[mike_bike_kite]

4 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Well Marty and Ian are the Chuck Yeagers of the EUC community in my opinion along with Kuji of course.

Ian goes for long rides in the woods and Marty goes for long rides in the Californian desert. I'm not sure that quite qualifies them for a comparison with Chuck Yeager. Kuji certainly gets closer. If you're into heroic test pilots then it's worth watching the BBC documentary on Eric Brown. I think their end comment was he made James Bond look like a bit of a slacker.

[onizukagto]

12 hours ago, FreeRide said:

So you doubt, but you are sure you are wrong?  

I can be almost certain more than one will use the S18 as a commuter wheel, and a few of those it will be their only wheel.  It's a perfect commuter for shorter commutes which are ideal for EUCs and some people only have an EUC for commuting and small errands.  The price will limit this a bit I believe, but I think the group is big enough that the intersection will exist.  These people don't frequent the forums, but they are out there.

Put it this way, people will definitely attempt to prove me wrong because I made this statement, but in the reality I'm almost certain those who are buying an S18, won't immediately sell all their other EUC and use the S18 exclusively. 

I don't see it as a complete package, I can't see how a gotway rider is willing to abandon all the thrills and danger for the S18. 

Nor do I believe an 16X rider will abandon the torque and range just for the S18. 

Of course there will always be exceptions and that's fine. I'll be interested to see how those few examples makes the S18, the perfect EUC for them. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by onizukagto
Grammar-lish

[FinRider]

56 minutes ago, Shield said:

It is often easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. 

Yep, i have come to the same conclusion as well 

[Patton250]

40 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

Put it this way, people will definitely attempt to prove me wrong because I made this statement, but in the reality I'm almost certain those who Fe buying an S18, will immediately sell all their other EUC and use the S18 exclusively. 

I don't see it as a complete package, I can't see how a gotway rider is willing to abandon all the thrills and danger for the S18. 

Nor do I believe an 16X rider will abandon the torque and range just for the S18. 

Of course there will always be exceptions and that's fine. I'll be interested to see how those few examples makes the S18, the perfect EUC for them. 

I’ll bet the shocks turn out to be no big deal in the end. On all EUCs.