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King Song S18 Discussion

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3 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Im versatile like that! I got tools, glue, ideas and time.... dangerous combination.

We’re brothers from a different mother! :cheers:

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11 hours ago, AtlasP said:

This is a strawman. Many responsible riders (including several prominent youtubers), without having "speed [as their] primary goal", consider mid-20s mph to be a sweet spot for the form factor, which means an 84v wheel that can hit 31 mph would/should be a totally fine choice (and it is now from _all other manufacturers_--from the 84v MSX/Nikola, to the new V11, and even the Z10).

No idea what you mean by this. You can perfectly cruise at 25mph with a KS16X.

And the Z10 doing 31mph? Would never risk that on mine.

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On 6/29/2020 at 3:13 AM, Steef Klonoa said:

@onizukagto

I mean if they are easy to replace no big deal haha. It's hard to tell from a couple seconds of video how they are attached though. It looks to me like there are some cheap plastic fins on the main frame of the EUC that are bent.

I just removed mine. And I think it looks better 

3B3875F8-E764-4C05-ADE3-A15CF7568383.jpeg

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@Afeez Kay were the white panels easy to remove? How about those black panels that are visible now with the black fins on them, do you think they can be easily replaced if they get broken? Thanks Afeez.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, FinRider said:

This is easily explained, the S18 has built in ”kuji pads” that allows him to grab on to the whee

No it is not. You can see him jump and see how built-in kujipads work. It is not them.

Spoiler

 

I heard a lot of attempts to justify it some other way. Now it is time to get back to the obvious explanation - V11 suspension sucks. I told it the day S18 was announced, that it will be much superior to V11, as it was obvious back then, and I am telling it now.

Edited by B08AH

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30 minutes ago, B08AH said:

No it is not. You can see him jump and see how built-in kujipads work. It is not them.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I heard a lot of attempts to justify it some other way. Now it is time to get back to the obvious explanation - V11 suspension sucks. I told it the day S18 was announced, that it will be much superior to V11, as it was obvious back then, and I am telling it now.


what do you mean by ”its not them” ? I may not have been precise enough when I referenced the built in ”kuji-pads”.  The S18’s design has cut-outs for the medial malleolus, which clearly helps you to hold on to the wheel at all times. 

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Posted (edited)

Still I think people really downplay the difference in suspensions. It's kinda expected since we still don't have a single real direct comparison between S18 and V11, only a separate reviews and 3 seconds of poorly synchronized footage from different videos. But recently I got the feeling that everyone happily forgot that we are discussing 2k$ wheels there. And that suspension is the ONLY answer to why we are even discussing these heavily overpriced and far too heavy wheels with lots of potential problems. So waiting for actual direct comparisons and refraining from shitposting until then is is one thing, but saying "even if V11 suspension turns out to be far worse than S18, it doesn't matter, since the wheel overall is better" feels really strange. The wheel overall is garbage for its money. I mean seriously, look at the MSX or Nicola specs and then look at V11 or S18 specs again, keep price tags in mind. If one suspension really is much better than another, it's an obvious deal breaker.

Edited by Nifrigel

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Well, it seems prices are a bit different from Russian dealer. Here you can pre-order either a 2100 Wh 84V Nikola or 1845 Wh 100V Nikola or 1800 Wh 100V MSuper PRO HS for almost the same price as V11. Or you can get a 1600 Wh 84V Nikola 30% cheaper than V11. Actually I am not a Gotway guy either. I'm completely satisfied with my 1036Wh KS18L and I never ride faster than 30 mph. That's why even V11 is a bit of an overkill for me. What I'm trying to say is that if additional safety and comfort outweighs specs difference for you, and for me it definitely does, I see no reason not to sacrifice even more specs for more comfort and safety. For me this is by far the least worked out dimension in EUCs in general and from what I can see even S18 suspension is far from perfect.

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3 hours ago, Sentient said:

It's a about quality of the materials used, it's about the engineering- electrical and industrial, it's about thought and care put into the ECU that really differentiates the inmotion V11 from the rest of the contenders.  

Specs come in second, third, or fourth place to all these attributes. And the V11 can run with many of the contenders without suspension to boot.

Buy the steak for the steak-not the sizzle.

 

But then again to each his/her own.  Free market.

^This...

 

3600-black-z1-t-i-want-you-to-taste-the-meat-not-the-heat.jpg

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The price difference between brands vary wildly around the world. In EU the V11 costs the same or less than the 18XL. Not that there’d be much wrong with the 18XL, but it’s an old wheel, and specs wise the V11 beats it in everything but the near identical battery size (1554 vs 1500 Wh).

 Comparing specs/price tends to always refer to GW. Of course they are cheaper, they are of lower quality in materials, manufacturing and design.

 Comparing speed, same thing. GW (and now it’s disciple Veteran) are the only brand that has made a wheel faster than the V11. Most riders don’t need a faster wheel.

Comparing battery again points to GW. For the range of 1554Wh 18XL, you need a GW with 2100Wh of battery. Both V11 and S18 allow lower riding voltage than GW, so it’s range should be somewhere in the middle. Should be no problem far outriding a 1600Wh GW.

 If you look at any deeper than skin deep into the specs, you could say that GW’s are the overpriced ones, since so much of the expensive and heavy battery is left unused.

Different needs and requirements.

:thumbup: now there's some good points i  never thought of  :thumbup:

Edited by stephen

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Ah I see we are back to comparing these two wheels again. I see both sides of the argument. I’m going to wait for you guys to ride them both and tell me which one I should buy. I cancelled the preorder but if it works out S18 seems the right choice. 
 

v11just got a pro mode that flashes it to 35MPH top speed. I know I’m in the minority, but I would like to cruise around 30 on roads as needed. 
 

Kingsong can you do this as well?  Just a software upgrade - cheap and this would be very sweet...

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

Kingsong can you do this as well?  Just a software upgrade - cheap and this would be very sweet...

Nothing comes free, remember that. Im sure KS COULD up the speed limit, but then it costs headroom/safety. I'm not sure that all the companies play by the same margins, so its hard to compare directly. Personally, I'd rather 5mph slower (forced on me), than dipping into headroom that I'm unsure of its limit.  MAYBE the v11 is built that it can achieve 5mph faster with the same headroom as the KS. Then again, maybe not. I've gotten over worrying about trying to get an extra 5mph from a wheel. I think we're at a crossroads where you either get around 30mph with its set compromises, or you buy HUGE and get more speed with its own set of compromises. I don't think most of the euc companies are all that eager to be in the news more than others, for cutout injuries that could easily get overblown and cost lots of $$.

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Nothing comes free, remember that. Im sure KS COULD up the speed limit, but then it costs headroom/safety. I'm not sure that all the companies play by the same margins, so its hard to compare directly. Personally, I'd rather 5mph slower (forced on me), than dipping into headroom that I'm unsure of its limit.  MAYBE the v11 is built that it can achieve 5mph faster with the same headroom as the KS. Then again, maybe not. I've gotten over worrying about trying to get an extra 5mph from a wheel. I think we're at a crossroads where you either get around 30mph with its set compromises, or you buy HUGE and get more speed with its own set of compromises.

The V11 has the higher speed as a special firmware version, that should be uploaded somewhere reportedly, so it’s not something most people will do. I like that approach - there is a standard wheel with some safe margins, but if you really want to maim yourself and go faster, you have the option to flash a different firmware made more to your needs.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Zopper said:

The V11 has the higher speed as a special firmware version, that should be uploaded somewhere reportedly, so it’s not something most people will do. I like that approach - there is a standard wheel with some safe margins, but if you really want to maim yourself and go faster, you have the option to flash a different firmware made more to your needs.

I like the approach as well. But.... this small detail is NOT going to make an ounce of difference in a legal sense or to protect the company should someone lawyer up after an incident. Im not trying to be overly negative, but it seems a little bit of a risk on the part of Inno. If the wheel can safely do 35mph, why must they slow it down for the general public? Is 30mph some magic number in legislation? Hitting a little 'accept the risk' button on an update that makes it faster, wont absolve the company of their liability. If 35mph is safe enough, why not just unlock the wheel for everyone? Maybe it IS plenty safe and this is yet another marketing tactic. They can appease the 'safe' crowd while also tossing the 'risky' crowd a bone...  All while knowing that its just a big gimmick? I'm all for faster wheels as long as they can safely do so. Inno is upping the game a bit and this can be a great thing for some. As far as making the wheel slow enough that you don't maim yourself, this is already a feature of nearly every current wheel on the market, via tiltback and alarm speeds. Oddly, my worst injury to date was at 2mph on an mten.... go figure.

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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Posted (edited)

Anybody know if this is the motor's power wire wrapped in a metal spring for protection?  It's the first shot in this video:

https://youtu.be/MxeDze9YX0Q?t=1

 

If that's the motor power wire, having it exposed seems like it'll be prone to damage.  At least it's protected by a flipped-up pedal, but it looks like it'd be constantly be knocked by the foot.  Hopefully there's some extremely durable wiring being used.

Edited by musk

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