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@ShanesPlanet I think we just have to be patient and wait it out at this stage.  The issues that need to be addressed are the reason that the S18 is going to be delayed and I for one would rather they delay it's release until such time!  Below is a conversation quoted from King Song's Telegram page today, with an answer from Jack King Song:

"Lazy Rider

We already know KS-S18 is switching to AO-38RC due to shell clearance issues and that the wheel is now 6 lbs heavier than original spec.  Are these specs finalized or will there be additional changes being made?  Is this wheel in production yet?  I ask because the vendor has delayed shipment date from end of June to "maybe sometime in July".  That is unacceptable and I would like confirmation regarding production of this wheel so that I can make a decision regarding the cancellation of my pre-order or to keep it.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 6.39pm

Jack King Song

We want to produce a product that is durable with minimal issues.  the team is working hard to address all the issues and concerns. We are just as eager as getting this wheel out to customers however we'd rather not rush it at the sacrifice of quality. Thank you for your patience!"                                                                                                                6.48pm

Edited by fbhb
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Here are my jumbled thoughts after riding both wheels in the parking lot and looking over each one in detail. S18 tailored for smaller riders, the kuji pad is really low. I'm 5'10" and my s

Choose your color..

I've had fun putting this video together. Data nerds rejoice 😂 Some folks say that a big wheel is basically like suspension, and I put that to the test.

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What's this about a cheaper shock? Doesn't the AO-38RC sell for about the same cost as the AOY-36RC? 😉 As far as I can tell, it seems like the 38RC may very well be an updated model that takes the 36RC's place. I'm trying to get in touch with DNM for clarification on if the 38RC has an automatic negative chamber or not. I suspect it may, similar to that Fox shock the S18 was pictured with a while back (though not $400, hahaha).
Folks are freaking out about speculation, but I'm still excited to have fun on mine. King Song said they will address the issues, so we'll see what they actually get around to addressing. But we don't know what we don't know, no point in letting the imagination run wild.

1 minute ago, fbhb said:

Jack King Song

We want to produce a product that is durable with minimal issues.  the team is working hard to address all the issues and concerns. We are just as eager as getting this wheel out to customers however we'd rather not rush it at the sacrifice of quality. Thank you for your patience!"                                                                               6.48pm

That's good to hear! Though, more transparency on what they are up to would be nice.

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9 minutes ago, fbhb said:

@ShanesPlanet I think we just have to be patient and wait it out at this stage.  The issues that need to be addressed are the reason that the S18 is going to be delayed and I for one would rather they delay it's release until such time!  Below is a conversation quoted from King Song's Telegram page today, with an answer from Jack King Song:

"Lazy Rider

We already know KS-S18 is switching to AO-38RC due to shell clearance issues and that the wheel is now 6 lbs heavier than original spec.  Are these specs finalized or will there be additional changes being made?  Is this wheel in production yet?  I ask because the vendor has delayed shipment date from end of June to "maybe sometime in July".  That is unacceptable and I would like confirmation regarding production of this wheel so that I can make a decision regarding the cancellation of my pre-order or to keep it.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 6.39pm

Jack King Song

We want to produce a product that is durable with minimal issues.  the team is working hard to address all the issues and concerns. We are just as eager as getting this wheel out to customers however we'd rather not rush it at the sacrifice of quality. Thank you for your patience!"                                                                                                                6.48pm

SO it IS a clearance issue? At least I finally know. Hell, i dont know, maybe the newer shock IS a better design. Having clearance issues does mean that selection of useable shocks may be less. Thank you for the positive outlook on it.

Its also nice to see that we are still getting 'answers' from KS that amount to absolutely NO new useful information. At least we can depend on the reliability of that.  Is dodging direct questions a trained skill, or something you just have to be born with?

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I can tell you that maintaining two air chambers is a pita, and the negative chamber is TINY.  So the 38RC may be a lot easier to maintain.

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49 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

At least we can depend on the reliability of that.  Is dodging direct questions a trained skill, or something you just have to be born with?

What do you expect will happen? The first final production model has not even shipped yet. 

KS are under high pressure not to repeat KS18L and KS16X 1st batch issues. Only reason KS18XL was fairly free of 1st batch issue is to be so close to the KS18L is design. Basically same wheel but with modified side panels and a bigger battery.

It is costly having to do redo services and shipping out service parts. They are still close enough to ship out for people to enjoy late summer season. 

Anyway in comparison Inmotion production started today. First batch shipping out mid week. But they have been quiet too and not much content has surfaced yet.

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31 minutes ago, Unventor said:

What do you expect will happen? The first final production model has not even shipped yet. 

KS are under high pressure not to repeat KS18L and KS16X 1st batch issues. Only reason KS18XL was fairly free of 1st batch issue is to be so close to the KS18L is design. Basically same wheel but with modified side panels and a bigger battery.

It is costly having to do redo services and shipping out service parts. They are still close enough to ship out for people to enjoy late summer season. 

Anyway in comparison Inmotion production started today. First batch shipping out mid week. But they have been quiet too and not much content has surfaced yet.

I expect a question to be answered. Hell, even an answer as remote as 'our current plan for blah lah is blah blah.' or 'we have no timeframe at the moment' or 'we are unsure'.  I saw two direct questions,  and a statement from Lazy Rider. The statement seemed like he was digging to verify information about weight. We can ignore this and still there were two questions.  I would expect a direct answer, not some vague patronizing response. Even an I don't know is acceptable, as it at least signals acknowledgement of the question at all.

I saw his questions were...

1)Are the weight and shock specs finalized?

2)Is this in production? (updated estimate for shipping)

What single direct answer was given? I don't expect them to be able to predict the future, but I DO expect them to know where they are at right now, and what things they think are already done with.  If they don't want to release information or are unsure... I can accept THAT as an answer too.

 

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In first S18 video Kuji said that suspension is, among other things, a safety feature. It you don't pay attention and ride into some bump, suspension can make the difference between launching you and not launching.

And he did such a test whilst reviewing both V11 and S18. here is a side by side comparison of the result. 

 

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14 hours ago, EUChristian said:

You should be able to set it and forget it. Not sure if you have to refill it so often?  Set to medium setting and it should tackle everything fine. 

But what about the wobble: Is that issue being worked on? Too many posts here and I can't go through all of them to see if the company's been working to fix this issue before shipping out the models. As a first time user it worries me because I will be taking this thing on the road with car traffic.... If they can't fix it, then I am also considering canceling the preorder, and going another route with a different wheel.

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38 minutes ago, jmsjms said:

But what about the wobble: Is that issue being worked on? Too many posts here and I can't go through all of them to see if the company's been working to fix this issue before shipping out the models. As a first time user it worries me because I will be taking this thing on the road with car traffic.... If they can't fix it, then I am also considering canceling the preorder, and going another route with a different wheel.

In one video someone mentioned that something was loose and caused a wobble. They fixed that. All other references of wobble were rider related. The high pedals and lack of upper leg support compared to some other wheels increase the rider's ability to wobble.  

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At this point my biggest concern is the body shell. New shock seems alright. I'd like to be able to drop this thing a few times without breaking those cheap plastic clips like we saw in some of the reviews. Jason sent out an update on these this morning but it just said the paneling will be durable and flexible.

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To spare me from watching more videos, can someone quickly summarize the difference between the two units, the 36RC and the 38RC. I am an early June order, and that means I should get the 38RC then.... What should I expect? Thanks.

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4 minutes ago, jmsjms said:

To spare me from watching more videos, can someone quickly summarize the difference between the two units, the 36RC and the 38RC. I am an early June order, and that means I should get the 38RC then.... What should I expect? Thanks.

The 36RC has 2 fill valves, one for the primary positive air chamber, and one for the secondary negative chamber. The negative chamber affects the coil-like feel of the shock (and usually sag, too).
The 38RC has only one fill valve. Some are presuming it does not have a negative chamber. Others are presuming it has an automatic negative chamber, like the Fox Float shocks, which equalizes itself with the positive chamber (I sent an email to DNM hoping to find out), which would still give the nice coil-like feel, just not as adjustable. It would be slightly easier to maintain, and it's one fewer adjustment to need to fiddle with, as well.

Edited by redfoxdude
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I have one of the first preorders and will be happy with ether shock, AS LONG AS THERE IS NO CLEARANCE ISSUE WITH THE 36.

If there is an issue, then I consider it just unfair to ship me a wheel with a known issue just to save the cost (and make me buy a different shock).

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It would appear that the adjustable negative chamber is more adjustable than the single. This is not a bad thing for most people. The single appears to have a negative chamber that is a fixed ratio to the main chamber. The double adjustable could be more adjustable or just more of a pain. So you might just think of the single as an auto negative chamber adjust.  It could be spun in a positive light. They discontinued the double for a reason.  

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The double adjustable could be more important for heavy/big riders. Here is 250lbs+ riders too for this people is this change suspension downgrade.  

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35 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

The double adjustable could be more important for heavy/big riders. Here is 250lbs+ riders too for this people is this change suspension downgrade.  

I guess 'downgrade' is subjective. I keep seeing people hope that the suspension model is no more maintenance and adjustment than a standard. Then there's people like me, who enjoy the tedious effort of tweaking and making shit worse and better. There's also the argument of more parts = more problems. Then there's the argument that if you allow the masses more control over settings, they are going to negate its ability and be unhappy. In the end, if i end up with a working shock and the ability to spend a little more to gain some tweakability/performance, I can deal with it. Its just a roller coaster ride to wait for the s18, and see changes being made over and over again. Since I have no baseline for what is 'good' or not for suspension euc's, its my own fault for setting ANY expectations. I havent studied MTB tech yet, I can't assume having an adjustable double chamber is better for heavier or not. I am just assuming that having the ability to set a second chamber, enables finer tuning. I guess its time for me to do some research, as I may be speaking from ignorance as far as mtb shocks go. At least the shock may be changeable. We should probably be worried more about the OTHER things. I hear a narrow tire is somewhat required. Still tho, the biggest concerns should be of those we cannot swap out or 'fix', once its at our doorstep. Padding, shocks, tires, these are simpler things of a much more complex picture.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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Anyone know what KS plans on doing about this? This was a brief clip in @Alien Rides video. I can't tell how the panels are attached so I wonder if they will be easily replaceable. Even for an experienced rider, going over terrain you couldn't before with an EUC like this is bound to end up with it being dropped at some point.

Screenshot_20200628-213938(1).png

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15 minutes ago, Steef Klonoa said:

Anyone know what KS plans on doing about this? This was a brief clip in @Alien Rides video. I can't tell how the panels are attached so I wonder if they will be easily replaceable. Even for an experienced rider, going over terrain you couldn't before with an EUC like this is bound to end up with it being dropped at some point.

Screenshot_20200628-213938(1).png

 

On the bright side, you can expect a lot of third party panel options to customise your s18, since it's pretty easy to remove and replace.

Silver lining and all that? :lol:

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@onizukagto

I mean if they are easy to replace no big deal haha. It's hard to tell from a couple seconds of video how they are attached though. It looks to me like there are some cheap plastic fins on the main frame of the EUC that are bent.

Edited by Steef Klonoa
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13 hours ago, jmsjms said:

But what about the wobble: Is that issue being worked on? Too many posts here and I can't go through all of them to see if the company's been working to fix this issue before shipping out the models. As a first time user it worries me because I will be taking this thing on the road with car traffic.... If they can't fix it, then I am also considering canceling the preorder, and going another route with a different wheel.

I’m just using it as an excuse to get an additional first wheel 😆 

Didn’t Kingsong implement Kujis suggestions on improvements? That takes dedication and a commitment to create the best. I’m hopeful that same team is working on the wobble, and the shock lol 
 

 

 

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I just heard back from DNM, and they confirmed that the AO-38RC has a self-adjusting negative chamber. It's not a cheaper shock, it's the model that replaces the AOY-36RC in DNM's product line. Now, it remains to be seen exactly how it performs on an S18, but I don't think it is right to call it a "downgrade."
Email text below:

Quote

Yes, it is confirmed that AO-38RC only having the main air valve, it is available with a negative chamber but it would adjust by itself.

Apparently they told Mickey otherwise, though so 🤷‍♂️

Edited by redfoxdude
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