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King Song S18 Discussion

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9 hours ago, Purplecycle said:

But there seems to be another sound (more metallic) which gets amplified when I accelerate (as if there was something loose inside the motor).

 

Maybe it's a loose coke can? :rolleyes:

 

 

5 hours ago, Purplecycle said:

That issue aside, has anyone managed to resolve the fender rubbing issue? My shock lies exactly on top of that protuberance, so every time I brake or accelerate hard, the fender rubs against the wheel. I have no idea how to resolve it, except removing the screw and filing down the protuberance (although I don’t know if at that point the shock would go lower and still hit the fender). 

I sent mine in to eWheels to fix mine, however, they gave me this tutorial and you can try it yourself. I doubt they will mind me sharing it:

6WABJwe9c7YQZkHdpyGQlu7N03bKi-mI7DjpI72QYJ8yToetnzR7fX__gq1FLJb-qMUgbzwcUhHWroPuTIalgeaR4kpZrUYW_-HZUemNwD69kPhRdvL9JO_UaD68siRcHy3d9Zus

How to:

Center Tire/Motor/Fender in S18

 

This guide will guide you through the process of centering the Tire/Motor/Fender in your S18. Before you start work on the alignment process, it’s important to properly diagnose the issue. To do so, you’ll want to make some measurements/observations. One or more issues can cause a wheel to be miscentered.

  1. Flip the unit on it’s top: Lower the handle down so that it’s fully recessed. You can flip the S18 over so that it’s sitting on its top. See picture below. It should be able to balance but keep an eye on it so it doesn’t fall over. Having the unit flipped will help with the next couple steps.

  2. Check for tire irregularity: Holding the unit still, spin the motor by hand. Watch the tire to see if there’s a high/low side on the left/right(L/R), and look for any sort of wobble. The tire should have less than 1mm of play L/R. You can mark the high/low side of the L/R with some tape to fix later.

  3. Measure for motor misalignment: On the bottom of the unit, where the pedals connect to their bracket, you’ll find the bottom of the 2 slide posts on each side. You’ll want to use a caliper to measure the distance between each post and the motor. A perfectly centered motor will have less than 0.5mm difference between the left gaps and right gaps. We’ve seen up to a 2mm gap difference before feeling any problems with handling.

  4. Check/fix fender misalignment: You can measure/look at the gap difference between the L/R sides on the front and rear of the unit. The difficulty with the fender is that it’s a solid plastic piece and so can’t be reshaped in the unit. We’ve seen a couple cases where the motor wires above the fender can push/deform it. To fix this possible issue reach in above the fender and pull the motor wires taut to remove tension from the fender. Removing it from the unit requires a full disassembly. From a functional standpoint, as long as the motor is able to spin without rubbing the fender then it’s fully functional.

 

  1. Fix tire irregularity: (Note: We have found that fixing irregularity in brand new tires can be difficult as the tire may have strong memory of the bad shape. Putting 100 miles on it can help to remove the old memory enough to fix any tire irregularity.) Fully deflate the tire. Wiggle the tire, all the way around it’s circumference to remove it’s hold to the rim. Inflate with some air and position the tire so that it has a level bead to the rim around the tire. The rim should sit just below the uppermost bead ridge. Rotate the tire to check for irregularity. If the tire is sitting too far to one side you can push more of the opposite side into the wheel well. You may also need to heat up the tire a bit to shape it correctly. Fully inflate the tire and rotate to check for improvement. Trial and error is the best way to work the tire into a more perfect shape. Once happy with the shape, fully inflate the tire.

  2. Fix motor misalignment(A): Remove the pedals by removing the cotter pin from under the pedal bracket and push out the pedal rod. Remove the pedal mount next. Remove the two screws on the bracket from the front battery mount, and the single screw on the rear battery mount. Take note of which holes these screws go back into as they set the height of the pedal. Loosen the 4 large bolts in between the slide posts and slide the bracket down and off of the posts. Make sure you keep track of which mount goes on which side. You’ll be able to see now where the axles mount into their brackets. Loosen the 4 bolts on each bracket, and then remove the bracket and bolts from each side.

  3. Fix motor misalignment(B): Use a rubber mallet to hit the outside of the motor mount into the motor. Be very careful to not hit the motor wires. You may need to let the air out of both chambers of the air suspension and push/pull the tire in/out in order to reach the outer part of the mount. You may also find some luck by separating the spacer from the mount with a flathead and then remounting the axles. Pushing on both mounts into the motor simultaneously may work as well. You’re looking to get the mounts as flush to the spacers and spacers to the motor as possible. 

  4. Fix motor misalignment(C): Once satisfied with the contact between mounts/spacers/motor, reattach the motor brackets. You may also find greater success if you have someone push the mounts into the motor while you reattach the brackets onto the axles/mounts. Measure the distance from the posts to the motor to check for improvement. As mentioned above, a perfectly mounted motor will have <0.5mm gap difference between the L/R. If you want to keep working on the gap difference, repeat step B. Otherwise, you can finish with reassembling your unit. Push the pedal bracket onto the posts and reinstall the screws on the front/rear batteries. Hold the small metal rectangle in the gap in between the posts under the bracket. Tighten the 4 bolts in between the posts until the metal rectangle stays in its place, and then fully tighten. Reinstall the pedal/rod/cotter pin.


 

(2,4)dWn4OX-pwkuFDsYzRqnDhbsCmIkjzPOQKOVab74PiZk7SrTAOOKSC8d9T_HMh3oB8Gco4HHWIGDf-lp38VLLGemdex4k3WG-Kdohr_lbxvqag2lTkcCeFxNTx8M3cSaq5ZnbqUsaMC1Oyo7jri_q0RsndPsV6d-tL11kEB7_p3hnF6VZaJIOJUwirK-qWRva0enitlsCeslq2N-mZT39rJ3wqMZnb1NEaZ8SX8NRIa-5txdCGeWGH1kHer5uw0RDV-4Wo4WMis4bAu6d

(3)knwZGi3IxEx0k4eZ6mfG9oEQuR76aa6KWdc2Rxuj4mOCnA7zfn8ZCWQLZu_-GtqFlq5ylsBVB1iWfM2nEUfz7kovPu5A_3fAX09PLyB91Az2afMrHmgp7EpmJzRNdTP24SACsbTeELT8bUZTSnF_HLx6getaZ7tgzyq5YPzhDi-pr7fLcyBGD-vukmkXtOwQGYvUbI2_6Ui5dy1a_4E0GoQOV5OsKGXzcHI8v176pNQgjG3v-gW6oBMyMYt_gH5E_1mKAexZEmEX1I5U

(6,7,8)SEgeVL-nxE_-44mezoU8wxO5NOmJmjFQQG2M3zXf7nKe4iHfEt66opXLMHQUarnVhiMsWldAtdsFy7p56ih9j16iWQX0HmpGBJdYPQjzinihmO4Gvpa_NcNb2CtR9jmt4e3wFa5c13m-XcFV3K8iAc_nChHvLZTMSU-nh6jsXoAfG_piuKd0llNCmMpLWa0QY4aZdVlOAhTDayZ2Qr73cjnMkJ55UKUJSm4gr8j0OM0Ora7ehseHxjO6koWvneYn3puQUiF7oYomB4XZF_mDmiMgI60RNCPoIewppyhevaZz3iPjbOEihw8SHrQEL7mx_HnQ9pnLXupO39Fflj7zXWzOXJ9N0zkL4PlmXGhYpMkROjUfNrrznhtYC2n_07AO1MZgESvBg__uT1Mioj3RwP7h

Finished:rOmWOPTdF-OU8SofkTjy_xu4lXqHcPi5NBkiPGFFHYkMnIFUyeDqhbIAN1yEKvvvL4vYVjsh2UhQkkliTYSJzNokAKJkln_WGr1c2zGq4_M5LULJRCFDvTuv6lG7be6cvEEN8BWQ


 

Edited by Bridgeboy

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30 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

 

 

Maybe it's a loose coke can? :rolleyes:

 

 

I sent mine in to eWheels to fix mine, however, they gave me this tutorial and you can try it yourself. I doubt they will mind me sharing it:

6WABJwe9c7YQZkHdpyGQlu7N03bKi-mI7DjpI72QYJ8yToetnzR7fX__gq1FLJb-qMUgbzwcUhHWroPuTIalgeaR4kpZrUYW_-HZUemNwD69kPhRdvL9JO_UaD68siRcHy3d9Zus

How to:

Center Tire/Motor/Fender in S18

 

This guide will guide you through the process of centering the Tire/Motor/Fender in your S18. Before you start work on the alignment process, it’s important to properly diagnose the issue. To do so, you’ll want to make some measurements/observations. One or more issues can cause a wheel to be miscentered.

  1. Flip the unit on it’s top: Lower the handle down so that it’s fully recessed. You can flip the S18 over so that it’s sitting on its top. See picture below. It should be able to balance but keep an eye on it so it doesn’t fall over. Having the unit flipped will help with the next couple steps.

  2. Check for tire irregularity: Holding the unit still, spin the motor by hand. Watch the tire to see if there’s a high/low side on the left/right(L/R), and look for any sort of wobble. The tire should have less than 1mm of play L/R. You can mark the high/low side of the L/R with some tape to fix later.

  3. Measure for motor misalignment: On the bottom of the unit, where the pedals connect to their bracket, you’ll find the bottom of the 2 slide posts on each side. You’ll want to use a caliper to measure the distance between each post and the motor. A perfectly centered motor will have less than 0.5mm difference between the left gaps and right gaps. We’ve seen up to a 2mm gap difference before feeling any problems with handling.

  4. Check/fix fender misalignment: You can measure/look at the gap difference between the L/R sides on the front and rear of the unit. The difficulty with the fender is that it’s a solid plastic piece and so can’t be reshaped in the unit. We’ve seen a couple cases where the motor wires above the fender can push/deform it. To fix this possible issue reach in above the fender and pull the motor wires taut to remove tension from the fender. Removing it from the unit requires a full disassembly. From a functional standpoint, as long as the motor is able to spin without rubbing the fender then it’s fully functional.

 

  1. Fix tire irregularity: (Note: We have found that fixing irregularity in brand new tires can be difficult as the tire may have strong memory of the bad shape. Putting 100 miles on it can help to remove the old memory enough to fix any tire irregularity.) Fully deflate the tire. Wiggle the tire, all the way around it’s circumference to remove it’s hold to the rim. Inflate with some air and position the tire so that it has a level bead to the rim around the tire. The rim should sit just below the uppermost bead ridge. Rotate the tire to check for irregularity. If the tire is sitting too far to one side you can push more of the opposite side into the wheel well. You may also need to heat up the tire a bit to shape it correctly. Fully inflate the tire and rotate to check for improvement. Trial and error is the best way to work the tire into a more perfect shape. Once happy with the shape, fully inflate the tire.

  2. Fix motor misalignment(A): Remove the pedals by removing the cotter pin from under the pedal bracket and push out the pedal rod. Remove the pedal mount next. Remove the two screws on the bracket from the front battery mount, and the single screw on the rear battery mount. Take note of which holes these screws go back into as they set the height of the pedal. Loosen the 4 large bolts in between the slide posts and slide the bracket down and off of the posts. Make sure you keep track of which mount goes on which side. You’ll be able to see now where the axles mount into their brackets. Loosen the 4 bolts on each bracket, and then remove the bracket and bolts from each side.

  3. Fix motor misalignment(B): Use a rubber mallet to hit the outside of the motor mount into the motor. Be very careful to not hit the motor wires. You may need to let the air out of both chambers of the air suspension and push/pull the tire in/out in order to reach the outer part of the mount. You may also find some luck by separating the spacer from the mount with a flathead and then remounting the axles. Pushing on both mounts into the motor simultaneously may work as well. You’re looking to get the mounts as flush to the spacers and spacers to the motor as possible. 

  4. Fix motor misalignment(C): Once satisfied with the contact between mounts/spacers/motor, reattach the motor brackets. You may also find greater success if you have someone push the mounts into the motor while you reattach the brackets onto the axles/mounts. Measure the distance from the posts to the motor to check for improvement. As mentioned above, a perfectly mounted motor will have <0.5mm gap difference between the L/R. If you want to keep working on the gap difference, repeat step B. Otherwise, you can finish with reassembling your unit. Push the pedal bracket onto the posts and reinstall the screws on the front/rear batteries. Hold the small metal rectangle in the gap in between the posts under the bracket. Tighten the 4 bolts in between the posts until the metal rectangle stays in its place, and then fully tighten. Reinstall the pedal/rod/cotter pin.


 

(2,4)dWn4OX-pwkuFDsYzRqnDhbsCmIkjzPOQKOVab74PiZk7SrTAOOKSC8d9T_HMh3oB8Gco4HHWIGDf-lp38VLLGemdex4k3WG-Kdohr_lbxvqag2lTkcCeFxNTx8M3cSaq5ZnbqUsaMC1Oyo7jri_q0RsndPsV6d-tL11kEB7_p3hnF6VZaJIOJUwirK-qWRva0enitlsCeslq2N-mZT39rJ3wqMZnb1NEaZ8SX8NRIa-5txdCGeWGH1kHer5uw0RDV-4Wo4WMis4bAu6d

(3)knwZGi3IxEx0k4eZ6mfG9oEQuR76aa6KWdc2Rxuj4mOCnA7zfn8ZCWQLZu_-GtqFlq5ylsBVB1iWfM2nEUfz7kovPu5A_3fAX09PLyB91Az2afMrHmgp7EpmJzRNdTP24SACsbTeELT8bUZTSnF_HLx6getaZ7tgzyq5YPzhDi-pr7fLcyBGD-vukmkXtOwQGYvUbI2_6Ui5dy1a_4E0GoQOV5OsKGXzcHI8v176pNQgjG3v-gW6oBMyMYt_gH5E_1mKAexZEmEX1I5U

(6,7,8)SEgeVL-nxE_-44mezoU8wxO5NOmJmjFQQG2M3zXf7nKe4iHfEt66opXLMHQUarnVhiMsWldAtdsFy7p56ih9j16iWQX0HmpGBJdYPQjzinihmO4Gvpa_NcNb2CtR9jmt4e3wFa5c13m-XcFV3K8iAc_nChHvLZTMSU-nh6jsXoAfG_piuKd0llNCmMpLWa0QY4aZdVlOAhTDayZ2Qr73cjnMkJ55UKUJSm4gr8j0OM0Ora7ehseHxjO6koWvneYn3puQUiF7oYomB4XZF_mDmiMgI60RNCPoIewppyhevaZz3iPjbOEihw8SHrQEL7mx_HnQ9pnLXupO39Fflj7zXWzOXJ9N0zkL4PlmXGhYpMkROjUfNrrznhtYC2n_07AO1MZgESvBg__uT1Mioj3RwP7h

Finished:rOmWOPTdF-OU8SofkTjy_xu4lXqHcPi5NBkiPGFFHYkMnIFUyeDqhbIAN1yEKvvvL4vYVjsh2UhQkkliTYSJzNokAKJkln_WGr1c2zGq4_M5LULJRCFDvTuv6lG7be6cvEEN8BWQ


 

This is a very cool guide! Thanks for posting!

 

 

More motor noise here — Very obvious around 00:31

 

Edited by Purplecycle

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2 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

I was interested in the S18 for a while (I have a 16x, and see a suspension wheel in my future), but I just think KingSong rushed this wheel to market to try to steal Inmotion’s thunder. It needed another 3-6 months of development.

You mean just like everyone was saying they did, and exactly the same as what happened with the 16X? *shocked Pikachu face*

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3 hours ago, Beachboy said:

do you have picture of your suspension when hitting this protuberance?

Below is the pic

5EA757B2-5361-4A42-A4FE-5263B6206BE4.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Purplecycle said:

Below is the pic

5EA757B2-5361-4A42-A4FE-5263B6206BE4.jpeg


This seems to happen when the suspension is at the top (don’t know if I expressed this correctly). Tried playing around with the pressure in both chambers, but no change. The fender keeps rubbing against the tire.

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1 minute ago, Bridgeboy said:

You must have missed the part where I said "I sent mine in to eWheels to fix mine,..."

They gave me this tutorial at my request so I could make my own decision if I wanted to fix it myself, or send it in to them for repair. I chose to send it to them. Jason gave me a prepaid FedEx label, I dropped it off at a FedEx location last Wednesday, it arrived to their Tucson, AR shop the next afternoon, they fixed it and got it sent back out on FedEx the same day on Thursday. Unfortunately, its taking FedEx longer to get it back to me than it took to get back to eWheels, but that is on FedEx, not eWheels.

There aren't currently choices to just "replace with one that works." These have all been preordered and all that exist are allocated to somebody who paid a deposit. There isn't extra inventory to allocate. If you want one then you can accept repair, or ask for your money back and wait to get one at some later time when they become available.

KingSong's utter lack of quality control and quality assurance is not eWheels fault.

My post was not meant to impugn eWheels in any way, I just wanted to clarify.  And of course, I appreciate the clarification.  Thanks!

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1 minute ago, Stillhart said:

My post was not meant to impugn eWheels in any way, I just wanted to clarify.  And of course, I appreciate the clarification.  Thanks!

eWheels are a good seller. I wouldnt worry about anything if i ordered from them. Sadly im from Europe and paying 650€ extra for customer support is not something i would call fair pricing.

So i ordered from China. Im waiting for their reply and hopefully theyll send me a new fender.

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1 minute ago, Stillhart said:

My post was not meant to impugn eWheels in any way, I just wanted to clarify.  And of course, I appreciate the clarification.  Thanks!

The funny part is the S18 came with Kingsong's typical little triangular shaped QA Inspection tag. I sent it back with the S18 to eWheels and wrote "Meaningless QA Tag" on it as a joke. I'm not sure if they saw it.

I should have kept it as a memento...

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I have confidence ordering from eWheels, which is why I put down a deposit with them for an S18 from the next batch.  I did specify with my deposit, though, that I wanted to see how the QC looked (based on other people's experiences with the batch) before finalizing my order and they're fine with that. 

Basically, I like the S18 (when it works) and I'm hoping the next batch fixes some of the obvious stuff like the fender, the axle alignment and the washer on the pivot.  But if it doesn't, I'll have to decide whether to wait for the next batch or "settle" for the V11.  ("Settle" in quotes because it's a good wheel, I just like the S18 more based on riding both.)

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1 hour ago, Purplecycle said:


This seems to happen when the suspension is at the top (don’t know if I expressed this correctly). Tried playing around with the pressure in both chambers, but no change. The fender keeps rubbing against the tire.

I filed down the screw joint, but no matter how much more I file it down, when I pull the wheel upwards and the suspension ‘opens’ completely, the shock still sits on the fender. At this point I am not sure what else I can do. It is obviously a design issue.

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17 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

I have confidence ordering from eWheels, which is why I put down a deposit with them for an S18 from the next batch.  I did specify with my deposit, though, that I wanted to see how the QC looked (based on other people's experiences with the batch) before finalizing my order and they're fine with that. 

Basically, I like the S18 (when it works) and I'm hoping the next batch fixes some of the obvious stuff like the fender, the axle alignment and the washer on the pivot.  But if it doesn't, I'll have to decide whether to wait for the next batch or "settle" for the V11.  ("Settle" in quotes because it's a good wheel, I just like the S18 more based on riding both.)

To be honest i didnt ride it much but i standed on it and roll inside the house and the contours are like they were made for me. The padding pushin exactly at my shin muscle so its comfy. 

The pedals are so comfy and the my ankle fits where it should be so i dont even put my pedals down or up. (Which doesnt matter cuz i disassembled the wheel anyway lol)

I noticed that the shock touches the fender but for me its only at some point when the suspension is closest to it.

Edited by eve

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22 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

I have confidence ordering from eWheels, which is why I put down a deposit with them for an S18 from the next batch.  I did specify with my deposit, though, that I wanted to see how the QC looked (based on other people's experiences with the batch) before finalizing my order and they're fine with that. 

I thought about that but here's the thing: the EUCs arrive into port in California and eWheels has a distributor who sends them straight out to us. They don't go to eWheels in Tucson, AZ first, so eWheels can't verify the QC before they go to us.

That could be changed I guess, but then that would add another shipping cost to go to eWheels from the port...this shouldn't be necessary if KingSong would just perform their own adequate QC/QA process prior to shipping them out from China.

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30 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

I thought about that but here's the thing: the EUCs arrive into port in California and eWheels has a distributor who sends them straight out to us. They don't go to eWheels in Tucson, AZ first, so eWheels can't verify the QC before they go to us.

That could be changed I guess, but then that would add another shipping cost to go to eWheels from the port...this shouldn't be necessary if KingSong would just perform their own adequate QC/QA process prior to shipping them out from China.

Erides.co.uk does its own QC. Checks if everything works on a wheel before they send it.

Edited by eve

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2 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

I thought about that but here's the thing: the EUCs arrive into port in California and eWheels has a distributor who sends them straight out to us. They don't go to eWheels in Tucson, AZ first, so eWheels can't verify the QC before they go to us.

That could be changed I guess, but then that would add another shipping cost to go to eWheels from the port...this shouldn't be necessary if KingSong would just perform their own adequate QC/QA process prior to shipping them out from China.

While I don't disagree, I think that cost is between eWheels and KS to straighten out.  There's a fine line here with who should be responsible for this stuff; while ultimately I think we all agree it should be KS, we as the end consumer can't influence that directly.  We purchase from eWheels so that's who we make these arrangements with. 

eWheels can and should work with KS to mitigate the cost.  I'm 100% sure they are and I'm also 100% sure they're not going to update us on how that's working out.

So yeah, if I ask and they're cool with it, I've got no guilty feelings.  I know they wouldn't have said yes if it was a problem.

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28 minutes ago, Purplecycle said:

I filed down the screw joint, but no matter how much more I file it down, when I pull the wheel upwards and the suspension ‘opens’ completely, the shock still sits on the fender. At this point I am not sure what else I can do. It is obviously a design issue.

Would you be able to take a video that shows how the suspension hits the fender (you might have to deflate the shock)? This is the first time I've heard of this problem.

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11 minutes ago, eve said:

Erides.co.uk does its on QC. Checks if everything works on a wheel before they send it.

That would be great if eWheels started doing that...and let me qualify this by stating this is only my understanding that they don't. I think the people they have in California only open the box, add a pair of wrist guards in it, and add any special charger or other things you ordered before shipping out. I don't think they're qualified to perform any type of QC/QA.

That's the problem with eWheels being located inland USA at Tucson, AZ. They could get the EUCs routed to them first, but that would add extra shipping, and time, which would then no doubt be added into the price of each wheel.

No doubt Erides.co.uk gets the EUCs sent directly to them since they are located on the same continent which they are manufactured...

 

Edited by Bridgeboy

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18 hours ago, Beachboy said:

@Jack King Song any thoughts?

 

That's simply a normal motor sound, magnets and adjustments we made in our firmware that affects torque correlates to how this will sound. 

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On 9/8/2020 at 11:59 AM, Bridgeboy said:

Seriously?! @Jack King Song, I appreciate the feedback, I really do; but you just told me to effectively "stuff a couple of coke cans in it" to solve the problem of a misaligned wheel straight from the factory that I just paid $1,900 for.

Do you even realize how ridiculous that sounds? Why wasn't this quality control check performed at the factory?!

I'm trying my best not to be a smart ass...but, I can't...I just can't...

 

 

The point being is that you have to add shims to above the axel. Coke cans are easily accessible 

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8 minutes ago, Jack King Song said:

The point being is that you have to add shims to above the axel. Coke cans are easily accessible 

What about people who prefer Pepsi? Or those like me who don't drink soda at all?

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