King Song S18 Discussion

[Beachboy]

1 hour ago, Jack King Song said:

Locking your wheel anyway  jk ofcourse
 

If you are speaking of the suspension spacers, changing from spring spacers to normal ones. The video has already been made, however it needs upper level management for it to be approved. 

I was talking about how to shim the wheel actually but that suspension stuff videos might do some good too 👍

 

1 hour ago, FinRider said:

I have a similar issue with mine and I will be shimming it when I tear down the wheel to put in thrust bearings / nylon shims for the suspension.

I am looking forward to your video about this @Jack King Song --> If it can not be fixed easily, then I may return my wheel as defective.

I really feel that KS needs to step up the game and:

a) admit and identify the deficiencies with the early batch wheels

b) issue a "parts kit" to all early batch owners (or their dealers) and have them sent out free of charge in order to fix these deficiencies

Also I agree with that👆 above statement...👍👍

[dsd317]

6 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

I've had fun putting this video together. Data nerds rejoice 😂

Some folks say that a big wheel is basically like suspension, and I put that to the test.

 

Great video!  Is that an aftermarket shock on your S18?  If so, you should do a review on it.

[mike_bike_kite]

You should make more videos, that one perfectly answered a question I'd often wondered about. Did you make the data logger yourself? It's a shame we can't get readings from the internal motion sensor but then I suppose it would be difficult to compare between different wheels.

[mrelwood]

 

5 hours ago, 390f758c-6420-4afb-8066-fd said:

Do you believe S18 is good or bad purchase for a beginner to EUCs? This is assuming an S18 without any defect/QC issues

I don’t think there has yet been such an S18. My strong opinion is that the S18 is not a good choice as a first wheel. I think that even experienced riders should wait a bit until KS gets their act together.

[Kiril]

Hello everyone!

I am developing an animation video (Motion graphics) for King Song S18.

So for this i need your help.

I am asking you guys as specialized community about your experience and perception of unicycle. I want to understand better what might attract your attention, and generate emotions.

Therefore, I have some questions for you. Your answer would help me a lot to understand how target community of this product think.

Here we go:
1. Why do you choose King Song over other brands?

2. What is your favorite thing about King Song S18?

3. How do you feel during riding it?
*Think about would you describe your experience of using the product, feeling the speed?
*What does the experience associate for with?

4. How do you like the appearance of this unicycle model?
*what association words does it bring to you?

5. What colors and **items**(anything) comes to your mind when you think about S18 and your riding experience?

6. What is main environment in which you usually take a ride? *City, off-road, etc.

7. What are 3 WORDS which can describe King Song S18 with?

Here you can find the Google Form version of the question if it's easier for you:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc2c9eh27TOWfSeX36uM36VTu8pHwB8CO_EW69O4IiF8mz46Q/viewform?usp=sf_link
Or you can reply to my message here.

Thanks ahead, and once I will finish the video I will present it to you to see the integration of your answers.

[eve]

9 hours ago, onizukagto said:

Just tell her to stop but with a stern voice. 

That's what i tell my missus when it's a school night and i need my sleep. works..... most of the time. 

I tried. She beeped at me.

6 hours ago, Jack King Song said:

Sorry you are experiencing this, a quick fix currently is to place a shim on top of the axel on the side that the wheel is leaning towards, so on the right in the case of this wheel. 

The problem is. The tyre/wheel doesnt appear to be misaligned at all. I dont consider misaligning a straight axle for clearence a solution but thx.

@390f758c-6420-4afb-8066-fd If you dont want to take apart your wheel and repair everything. No. Its not a good beginner wheel. Since youll spend more time fixing it then learning on it. After everything gets fixed and there will come out S18s that have no issues? Yeah. Great beginner wheel.

Edited September 15, 2020 by eve

[UniVehje]

6 hours ago, FinRider said:

This video brings up the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of having a suspension wheel, be it the V11 or the S18. Suspension DRAMATICALLY increases safety.

However, as has been stated before, it does induce a less "safe" riding style bc you adopt to the suspension and this brings with it less need for knee-suspension. A small thing to keep in mind if you hop from a suspended wheel to a non-suspended wheel.

Completely agree on this. I have notified that I tend to forget to keep my knees bent when casually riding my V11. And I ride faster. There are some bumps that the suspension can’t fix and those can be dangerous if you trust the suspension to do everything. But when you accidentally hit a bump, the suspension is a safety feature.  

Edited September 15, 2020 by UniVehje

[Tinkererboi]

@Jack King Song

Different wheel (16x) here, but since the topic of shims came out, I would like to clarify with you for the benefit of everyone as well. Is this method correct according to Kingsong official testing? Or is there a better way.

Have shimmed my wheel this way for 500km+ with no problems. Lots of offroading, seated riding and stairs and drops. No problem so far. 

[eve]

9 hours ago, Seba said:

When owning any EUC it's best to have some tools for checking and maintenance. Decent multimeter is such a universal tool, as you can use it to check/verify many things. You can get one for less than 100$, but keep away from cheapest models. It's best to look for models with at least 4 full digits and voltage measurement error of no more than 0.5 %. Good models are Axiomet AX-585B, GW Instek GDM-452 or UNI-T UT56. They are not autoranging (so you have to manually select measurement range), but they are cheap and good. Of course you can buy more expensive model.

With multimeter you can easily check following things (this is not an exhaustive list):

• check charger output voltage to check if it's working correctly
• check battery voltage or measure individual cells when troubleshooting battery problems
• check for wire or circuit continuity, button correct operation etc.
• check for short circuits
• check motor coils resistance
• verify charging current

...and lot more.

Nice. Thx for all the info ill definetly buy one. I see a lot of them cheap even with four digits and autoranging.  

Nice testing and video! @redfoxdude

Edited September 15, 2020 by eve

[Stillhart]

10 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

I've had fun putting this video together. Data nerds rejoice 😂

Some folks say that a big wheel is basically like suspension, and I put that to the test.

Great video, thanks for putting it together.  One thing I noticed that you didn't mention was on the last test how it not only significantly reduced the impact of the pothole, it also completely eliminated all the "aftershocks" as well.  It settled down right away, in theory making it much easier to recover from the big hit.

Where did you have the g-sensor, btw?

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Kiril said:

Hello everyone!

I am developing an animation video (Motion graphics) for King Song S18.

So for this i need your help.

...

It would be better to make your own topic for the questions. Easier for you to follow up on the answers as well.

[redfoxdude]

  

On 9/15/2020 at 5:52 AM, dsd317 said:

Great video!  Is that an aftermarket shock on your S18?  If so, you should do a review on it.

It is! Not a bad idea, I shall compile my thoughts.

On 9/15/2020 at 9:32 AM, Stillhart said:

Great video, thanks for putting it together.  One thing I noticed that you didn't mention was on the last test how it not only significantly reduced the impact of the pothole, it also completely eliminated all the "aftershocks" as well.  It settled down right away, in theory making it much easier to recover from the big hit.

Where did you have the g-sensor, btw?

Thank you! I probably should have mentioned the damping, but I was too worried about getting too into the weeds with details, ha. Overthinking - wanting to avoid becoming boring. The damping of the shock is really effective, and it's really cool how well it shows in the data, too! I'm curious to try this with the V11 as well, I'm assuming the air springs without active damping will exhibit more oscillations ("aftershocks"), but I don't know how much.

I had the logger on a little dovetail-ish mounting plate on the side of the EUC, in hopes of capturing the accelerations that make it through to the rider.

Edited September 28, 2020 by redfoxdude
clarification on active/passive damping, vs undamped

[Stillhart]

6 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

  

It is! Not a bad idea, I shall compile my thoughts.

Thank you! I probably should have mentioned the damping, but I was too worried about getting too into the weeds with details, ha. Overthinking - wanting to avoid becoming boring. The damping of the shock is really effective, and it's really cool how well it shows in the data, too! I'm curious to try this with the V11 as well, I'm assuming the un-damped air springs will exhibit more oscillations ("aftershocks"), but I don't know how much.

I had the logger on a little dovetail-ish mounting plate on the side of the EUC, in hopes of capturing the accelerations that make it through to the rider.

Yes, good point on the V11!  As soon as you pointed out that it was the damping, it occurred to me that the V11 will look much different.  This would be a great way to demonstrate the differences between the suspension types to people who are unfamiliar with the technical differences.  I wonder if there's a good way to demonstrate the difference between the progressive suspension vs linear as well.

As plenty of people have pointed out, just because the V11 suspension is "worse" than the S18 suspension, doesn't mean the S18 suspension will be better in all situations.  Many times, they'll be equally effective.  But knowing WHEN they perform differently would be good data for decision-making.

[yon]

I have not seen this video on this forum anywhere else regarding suspension settings

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by yon
wrong video

[Feynman]

Here is my final parts list.  I'll edit this into the original post on Page 1 of this thread as well.  In the instructions to follow I will refer to the parts by the numbers below.

Total cost, not including bushings / filament or any shipping (you'll have extra parts): $76.61

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Feynman

[Bridgeboy]

Well I received my S18 back from eWheels all aligned. The wheel and tire are still 1 mm off of perfect center, but it is close enough and there is no rubbing.

And let me tell you it was well worth it!        I just rode this thing for about 20-miles and it is a dream to ride. I set the pedals to #2 soft in Darknessbot and just glided and floated all over the place carving like I never have before on my KS18XL. The tall frame and pads rest right at my calf muscle, which at first felt odd, but I soon adjusted to it and realized how much more torque it gave me to control the wheel from up high like that.

Both legs were almost always gripping the wheel due to it being so wide at the top and so high up from the pedals. The wheel is super nimble and I felt like I could do anything I wanted. I rode down a few steps for the first time ever with no problem and flew off curbs without a thought (I never did that before on a non-suspension wheel).

This S18 launch may have been rocky, but this wheel is really an engineering marvel. Poor QC/QA from Kingsong (plenty of room for improvement there) but once it's resolved the thing works great (at least so far). After the 20-mile ride my feet were barely numb and tingling too;. My feet get numb and tingly much, much more quickly on my non-suspension KS18XL. But on the S18 I didn't feel anything at all in my feet until perhaps the last couple of miles.

I like it...I just wish it had more battery. I ran it down to about 35 or 40% and I definitely noticed it starting to beep and even tilt back at around 24 to 26 MPH at that battery level...instead of the max 31 MPH I had it set to; which it complied with at higher battery levels.

Also, custom power pads seem unnecessary as it is so easy to clamp the wheel between my calves to force it forward or backward. That may be unique to someone my size though (6'-3") and the geometry of my legs with the size of the wheel.

Anyway, I like it!    

 

EDIT: I just looked at my calves, and while they don't hurt, I notice I did rub some skin off from the friction of gripping the wheel at the top pad. I may have to develop some skin "toughness" to that over time...callouses, or wear something there to avoid skin peeling/blisters. It's literally at the thickest part of my calf muscle that is right there at that pad height; which seems awkward at first but when I tighten my calf muscle it gives me complete control of the wheel.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Bridgeboy

[Stillhart]

Glad you're digging it @Bridgeboy!  Gives me hope that mine will be worth the wait.

I find it amusing that you're calling the S18 tall though.  It doesn't feel any taller than my Nikola and the V11 feels waaaay taller between the legs.  I've never been on an 18XL, but is it really that much shorter than the S18? 

[Bridgeboy]

23 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

Glad you're digging it @Bridgeboy!  Gives me hope that mine will be worth the wait.

I find it amusing that you're calling the S18 tall though.  It doesn't feel any taller than my Nikola and the V11 feels waaaay taller between the legs.  I've never been on an 18XL, but is it really that much shorter than the S18? 

I just went and held them side by side on the ground and I estimate the top of the pad on the S18 is about 3" higher than the top of the pad on the 18XL.

So, on the 18XL the bulk of my calf muscle is above the wheel. On the S18 the center of the bulk of my calf muscle is directly on the pad. I first thought the S18 was wider at the top, but it turns out they are both about the same at 6.5" or so. It's just that my calf muscles are much wider at the point where they interface with the pads.

I don't have a V11 but that looks extremely tall too. Just think about it: suspension wheels have to be taller to allow for the suspension travel downward...

EDIT: Which also means the pedals are higher on the suspension S18...so I measured the distance from the pedal surface to the top of the pads on both wheels:

       1) 18XL = 14-3/4"

        2) S18 = 15-1/2"

So, not nearly as big of difference as I thought, but it equates to a big difference in the feel and control of the wheel to me. Also, whenever the shock is actuated and the suspension dips, my legs move more against the pads I think.. That may have contributed to my skin peeling... (I ride in shorts, so bare skin on the pad)

Edited September 16, 2020 by Bridgeboy
correction

[Stillhart]

6 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

I just went and held them side by side on the ground and I estimate the top of the pad on the S18 is about 3" higher than the top of the pad on the 18XL.

So, on the 18XL the bulk of my calf muscle is above the wheel. On the S18 the center of the bulk of my calf muscle is directly on the pad. I first thought the S18 was wider at the top, but it turns out they are both about the same at 6.5" or so. It's just that my calf muscles are much wider at the point where they interface with the pads.

I don't have a V11 but that looks extremely tall too. Just think about it: suspension wheels have to be taller to allow for the suspension travel downward...

Fair enough.  Not to belabor the point, but comparing the S18 to the 18XL, are the pedal heights comparable? 

It's totally not a big deal.  I'm just more surprised at how small the 18XL seems compared to the S18 or Nikola.  It always looked like a relatively tall wheel in videos (and with an 18" tire, I expect it to be bigger).  I'll have to look up some raw measurements or something just for my own edification.

[Bridgeboy]

7 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

Fair enough.  Not to belabor the point, but comparing the S18 to the 18XL, are the pedal heights comparable? 

It's totally not a big deal.  I'm just more surprised at how small the 18XL seems compared to the S18 or Nikola.  It always looked like a relatively tall wheel in videos (and with an 18" tire, I expect it to be bigger).  I'll have to look up some raw measurements or something just for my own edification.

Look up. I edited my post at the same time you posted this.  I now realize the pedals stay the same distance from the pads now...it's just that my legs move more when the suspension is moving...

Edited September 16, 2020 by Bridgeboy

[Stillhart]

2 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

Look up. I edited me post at the same time you posted this. 

Okay so less than an inch difference isn't nearly as bad.  I can accept that.  lol

I test rode in shorts too, and noticed it was a little uncomfortable where it touched.  I am fully planning to pad it up a little to alleviate that... even if it's just a thin layer of yoga mat or whatever.  I still really liked the feel of the wheel overall despite that. 

[Electric Dreams]

14 hours ago, Tinkererboi said:

@Jack King Song

Different wheel (16x) here, but since the topic of shims came out, I would like to clarify with you for the benefit of everyone as well. Is this method correct according to Kingsong official testing? Or is there a better way.

Have shimmed my wheel this way for 500km+ with no problems. Lots of offroading, seated riding and stairs and drops. No problem so far. 

I can speak for other wheels but as users here understand S18 is a complex wheel with many parts interacting with one another. Our current solution is placing a shim on top of the axel. 

[Tinkererboi]

1 hour ago, Jack King Song said:

Our current solution is placing a shim on top of the axel. 

Yeah that's what I was asking, where exactly is "on top"? It's hard to visualize. Is my picture considered on top of the axle? 

[390f758c-6420-4afb-8066-fd]

@Beachboy @eve @mrelwood thank you for your replies. I don't want to be getting out the tools too often, so I will find another wheel to get started. There are many youtube videos on this topic when not considering S18. Thanks again

[Christophe Maziere]

Got mine. Great wheel, but a bit disappointed. First of all, we are not shaped like Kuji. Impossible for me to lock my feet to jump, a torture for my calves. I'm a short man 5.5 , maybe I should try to move the pedal higher. 
I have an issue with the trolley, at the point to lift the wheel, the engine is still engaged. I checked on the app, it's on.
 
The suspension seems to doing the job, but not at 100%  and is not really easy to tune. Did you remove the iron bricks for improvment? Thanks