King Song S18 Discussion

[the0r1st]

anyone looking at replacing their shock?

[Elliott Reitz]

24 minutes ago, the0r1st said:

anyone looking at replacing their shock?

Why?  I have noticed that my shock is slow AF and with the bottom end dissconected it still resists being compressed... and without an actual spring WTF?  So yea, I'll bite.   Oh and its not a "165" mm either.  It measures 8" or 200 mm (decompressed as in extended).

[redfoxdude]

2 hours ago, the0r1st said:

anyone looking at replacing their shock?

I've been playing around with an X-Fusion O2 Pro RL 200x57. The mounting hardware uses a more standard 12.7mm eyelet rather than the 12mm of the stock DNM shock, so I got some new hardware for it. It has larger chambers than the stock shock, and the larger positive chamber yields a more linear (less progressive) response. Also, I found that I didn't like the stock DNM's lockout feature, it made the shock far too stiff. That may be what some folks like on a bike, but I didn't prefer it. The X-Fusion's lockout is much less stiff, but still springy and doesn't lose too much sag.

I like it so far.

EDIT: Oh, also, it has automatically equalizing chambers, so you have to equalize the pressure in the chambers by cycling the shock when you adjust the pressure. I don't mind, though. Most MTB shocks are like this these days, instead of having separate fill valves.

I've been using a Topeak Pressure-Rite adapter that I modified to remove the check valve. It is easy to pump the shock fully uncompressed now, so I haven't really been using the brick.

Edited September 1, 2020 by redfoxdude

[the0r1st]

39 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

I've been playing around with an X-Fusion O2 Pro RL 200x57. The mounting hardware uses a more standard 12.7mm eyelet rather than the 12mm of the stock DNM shock, so I got some new hardware for it. It has larger chambers than the stock shock, and the larger positive chamber yields a more linear (less progressive) response. Also, I found that I didn't like the stock DNM's lockout feature, it made the shock far too stiff. That may be what some folks like on a bike, but I didn't prefer it. The X-Fusion's lockout is much less stiff, but still springy and doesn't lose too much sag.

I like it so far.

EDIT: Oh, also, it has automatically equalizing chambers, so you have to equalize the pressure in the chambers by cycling the shock when you adjust the pressure. I don't mind, though. Most MTB shocks are like this these days, instead of having separate fill valves.

I've been using a Topeak Pressure-Rite adapter that I modified to remove the check valve. It is easy to pump the shock fully uncompressed now, so I haven't really been using the brick.

other than the lock out thoughts compaired to stock shock?

[redfoxdude]

3 minutes ago, the0r1st said:

other than the lock out thoughts compaired to stock shock?

The less progressive response makes it feel more plush to me. The stiffness doesn't ramp up as quickly through the stroke, whereas I felt that the stock shock could be too stiff for my liking unless I had it sag a lot. Also, the rebound adjustment on the X-Fusion doesn't have such a broad range, but for real, who needs that slowest rebound on the DNM?

[NYC One Roll]

Looks like KS has delayed their wheels due to QC issues from eWheel (~3 weeks).  Hopefully all these issues being presented here are the ones they are addressing and fixing. 

[ColoradoQuattro]

7 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

The less progressive response makes it feel more plush to me. The stiffness doesn't ramp up as quickly through the stroke, whereas I felt that the stock shock could be too stiff for my liking unless I had it sag a lot. Also, the rebound adjustment on the X-Fusion doesn't have such a broad range, but for real, who needs that slowest rebound on the DNM?

Just looked it up and there are some pretty screaming deals on it... Would imagine that in one's hands, the differences are pretty night and day - but how substantial a change is this in the overall riding experience?

Edited September 1, 2020 by ColoradoQuattro

[Feynman]

11 hours ago, the0r1st said:

anyone looking at replacing their shock?

I've got this bad boy waiting to go in as soon as I get my wheel back together.  I've got all the parts I need except for a Teflon rod I'll use to make custom bushings and some slightly longer hex bolts than the ones I have.  

[Elliott Reitz]

2 hours ago, nycommuter69 said:

Looks like KS has delayed their wheels due to QC issues from eWheel (~3 weeks).  Hopefully all these issues being presented here are the ones they are addressing and fixing. 

 

1 hour ago, Feynman said:

I've got this bad boy waiting to go in as soon as I get my wheel back together.  I've got all the parts I need except for a Teflon rod I'll use to make custom bushings and some slightly longer hex bolts than the ones I have.  

@nycommuter69Lets hope someone makes an upgrade kit.   I'd love to buy a suspension kit with or without the Fox shock... have all the bearings and exact model shock that goes with it.  For example, @Feynman may not want to invest in 20 or more shocks, but 20 or so kits of all the little parts might be affordable for a family member to sell off on ebay.  Or maybe just a detailed parts list with sources identified.  Precisely cutting our own teflon tubes may not be something all of us want to take on as quick and easy as a purchase/install.  

[Feynman]

2 minutes ago, Elliott Reitz said:

For example, @Feynman may not want to invest in 20 or more shocks, but 20 or so kits of all the little parts might be affordable for a family member to sell off on ebay.  Or maybe just a detailed parts list with sources identified.  Precisely cutting our own teflon tubes may not be something all of us want to take on as quick and easy as a purchase/install.  

I have extra parts, so if you guys are interested in kits, let me know.  Check out the overhaul thread for pics / parts.

[Elliott Reitz]

2 minutes ago, Feynman said:

I have extra parts, so if you guys are interested in kits, let me know.  Check out the overhaul thread for pics / parts.

I'm more interested in a complete kit than going through the whole thread to accumulate a parts list and go through what you did.  If you post a sale of a kit on ebay and link here I think you might be surprised the price you get... the number of bidders, etc.  Like set it up with an initial bid price that makes it worth your time... a BIN for 2x that... and it might sell instantly BIN or you might see how many bids from the more cost conscious helping you to guage how many you could sell... note there are only about 100 (? anyone know the #?) S18s already produced and probably only half of those would want to bother making it smooth as butter with the Fox-shock upgrade. 

[Feynman]

Just now, Elliott Reitz said:

I'm more interested in a complete kit than going through the whole thread to accumulate a parts list and go through what you did.  If you post a sale of a kit on ebay and link here I think you might be surprised the price you get... the number of bidders, etc.  Like set it up with an initial bid price that makes it worth your time... a BIN for 2x that... and it might sell instantly BIN or you might see how many bids from the more cost conscious helping you to guage how many you could sell... note there are only about 100 (? anyone know the #?) S18s already produced and probably only half of those would want to bother making it smooth as butter with the Fox-shock upgrade. 

I'll put together a concise parts list when I have everything together and know it works as intended.  It's unfortunate that the wheel has to be almost completely disassembled to fix the suspension linkage.  

[Elliott Reitz]

Just now, Feynman said:

I'll put together a concise parts list when I have everything together and know it works as intended.  It's unfortunate that the wheel has to be almost completely disassembled to fix the suspension linkage.  

Cool, thanks!  Replacing a tire gets pretty close to completely disassembled too.  Jason of ewheels is looking into the wheel bearing sound of my wheel on my vids too.  So if I have to tear it down to replace the motor or the bearings (IDK if I would need a press), then it would be a good time to get the Alen wrenches to the back side of the suspension pieces and also remove the controller and cut that f'king beeper.

[eve]

11 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

I've been playing around with an X-Fusion O2 Pro RL 200x57. The mounting hardware uses a more standard 12.7mm eyelet rather than the 12mm of the stock DNM shock, so I got some new hardware for it. It has larger chambers than the stock shock, and the larger positive chamber yields a more linear (less progressive) response. Also, I found that I didn't like the stock DNM's lockout feature, it made the shock far too stiff. That may be what some folks like on a bike, but I didn't prefer it. The X-Fusion's lockout is much less stiff, but still springy and doesn't lose too much sag.

I like it so far.

EDIT: Oh, also, it has automatically equalizing chambers, so you have to equalize the pressure in the chambers by cycling the shock when you adjust the pressure. I don't mind, though. Most MTB shocks are like this these days, instead of having separate fill valves.

I've been using a Topeak Pressure-Rite adapter that I modified to remove the check valve. It is easy to pump the shock fully uncompressed now, so I haven't really been using the brick.

The DNM shock is definetly not the right one for S18. Imo one with bigger chamber is necessary considering we have a motor attached to the wheel.

[eve]

@Feynman Nice! I was considering Float X2 but i have to ask Fox if it will be functional upside down or not. The small piston might be hitting the body.

[Steef Klonoa]

4 hours ago, nycommuter69 said:

Looks like KS has delayed their wheels due to QC issues from eWheel (~3 weeks).  Hopefully all these issues being presented here are the ones they are addressing and fixing. 

Where did you hear this? I've been waiting for an update from Jason but haven't seen an email yet, the batch I'm in was supposed to arrive in the US tomorrow.

[eve]

Lol so i told my seller about the issue with the suspension. Seller asked directly with Kingsong. Kingsong said there is no issue. 

[Gustesta]

What is your favorite suspension dial settings?  

[NYC One Roll]

21 hours ago, Steef Klonoa said:

Where did you hear this? I've been waiting for an update from Jason but haven't seen an email yet, the batch I'm in was supposed to arrive in the US tomorrow.

Yep, I was expecting the batch #2 to be in tomorrow as well when I checked in with the last week. William from eWheels told me this morning when I asked if they are still expecting delivery into the port tomorrow 9.3.20. 

 

Later that day, eWheels emailed me back that they are expecting now the S18 batch#2 to be in their warehouse by next Wednesday. So get ready to complete the payment and have your wheels soon.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by nycommuter69

[HerotheCat]

 

On 8/29/2020 at 10:49 AM, Elliott Reitz said:

I'm finding it necessary to test the BS coming from KSI.  At least for the shock-inflation block, and now the pedal blocks.  The information has certainly been flawed. 

And in prior pages to this discussion people were even replacing bearings in the suspension parts.  Most aren't using the elbows on the shocks and that makes it hard to tell where the BS begins.  If I go further into suspension movement I may disconnect one end of the shock and see how it moves.  The resistance I'm seeing (per my vid) feels like even friction such as tight with 0-rings, in the fork-sliders and not any sort of bearing bushing or bolt tightness.  There certainly wasn't any sense of binding or getting stuck at the top, bottom, or mid-way.  So I hope anyone removing a block will test the motion before just doing it.  Same with replacement bearings.  Otherwise, they would probably be introducing a misalignment not solving one.  To be certain I would remove one end of the shock and see if it slides any easier too (the removed shock valves still have air resistance).

FYI, I removed the blocks and the difference was night and day on shock suspension performance! The shocks have a much improved response time after the removal. I had about 200 miles on the wheel before, and probably another 50 after the change. I need to adjust my pressures a bit more since the removal, but that was expected.

Edited September 2, 2020 by HerotheCat

[dsd317]

King Song just uploaded another assembly video.  I’m not sure what’s changed compared to their original assembly video (which is still there as well...so there’s 2 assembly videos now):

 

[Feynman]

4 hours ago, dsd317 said:

King Song just uploaded another assembly video.  I’m not sure what’s changed compared to their original assembly video (which is still there as well...so there’s 2 assembly videos now):

 

The video looks the same, but some of the text commentary is different.  i.e. "... start with the outer screws." referring to the motor mount bolts.  

[Rehab1]

On 9/1/2020 at 9:44 AM, Feynman said:

I've got this bad boy waiting to go in as soon as I get my wheel back together.  I've got all the parts I need except for a Teflon rod I'll use to make custom bushings and some slightly longer hex bolts than the ones I have.  

Excellent work! 

[Gustesta]

Don't know if my S18 is the second batch, but the suspension out of the box is flawlessly.  It's excellent!  I don't see any need on doing anything on the bolts etc.  Congrats @Jack King Song !

 

[Mark Wilson]

12 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

Don't know if my S18 is the second batch, but the suspension out of the box is flawlessly.  It's excellent!  I don't see any need on doing anything on the bolts etc.  Congrats @Jack King Song !

Does your S18 come with the block in the pedal hangar? I saw somewhere else that some S18's have a redesign that don't have this block from the factory.