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gon2fast

Gotway Suspension

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Posted (edited)

Of course, pedal clearance will be less when the suspension is compressed, but I think this was to show that you can't scrape the "low-hanging" suspension bits.
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Edited by redfoxdude

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

Of course, pedal clearance will be less when the suspension is compressed, but I think this was to show that you can't scrape the "low-hanging" suspension bits.
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Potentially a pedal clipper when compressed. Making pedals a bit less wide like those of the Veteran may help.

As far as the suspension bits, it definitely visually stands out, but it may turn out to be less of an issue than it looks. The Veteran Sherman which sports the same tire size also has low clearance bits that looks approximately the same height away from the ground, but we'd need measurements to confirm.

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Edited by FullTilt

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On 7/15/2020 at 4:07 AM, FullTilt said:

A bit unexpected that this will weigh a tad bit more than the Veteran Sherman (35kg) given presumably a tad bit smaller wheel and battery. I guess the suspension system and motor are what tip it over the scale.

Well, think of it this way, the extra weight is approx. a 16" macbook pro. 

Curious to see how much the Monster Pro will weigh :efef77eaf5:

wheel size is the same as the sherman (14' rim)  and MSP

The 37kg EX is like :
MSP - 25kg
+ 900wh battery - around 4kg
+ suspension
+ bigger motor

i bet Monster Pro is 40kg :ph34r:

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I hope that performance increase and fun factor will compensate weight increase. It seems to be really heavy class wheel - I have hoped for something not much over 30 kg, as beyond that weight I think that we enter different class of the product - but truly powerful wheel will not be light.  I have used  Kingsong S18 for a week / over 100km last week - and I am sure that the suspension is the way to go, but I also know that 20s3p setup of S18 is not enough for the safe ride, and also acceleration and breaking with such small battery is an issue, and will be bigger issue in winter - those cells when cold can not provide safely more than 2.5 - maybe 5 Amps, and for 2200W motor it is WAY not enough power. 

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On 7/16/2020 at 10:10 AM, redfoxdude said:

Of course, pedal clearance will be less when the suspension is compressed, but I think this was to show that you can't scrape the "low-hanging" suspension bits.
FB_IMG_1594912156351.jpg.13ac533f958be59969d5cf63b936b5a6.jpg

You can't scrape them on flat ground that is. If this wheel is used off-road (and I would expect that it will be by many users) this piece will inevitably get hit just like pedals and body do on current wheels. I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a major issue with this wheel if Gotway doesn't properly support this part.

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GotWay has stated that the suspension travel is 5cm. Probably not as great for stairs and big drops, but I don't know if I'd want to be taking a 37kg beast down big drops anyway 😅
That probably explains why it's bottoming out in every video they share... I still imagine it will be a pretty comfortable street cruiser even with only 5cm of travel, though. The extra comfort from suspension might be nice for those long weekend rides. Just trying to imagine the occasion of taking it up and down my stairs, ouch

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Who is willing to pay $4000 USD for a EX (ball park quote from a distributor)? 

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4 minutes ago, gon2fast said:

Who is willing to pay $4000 USD for a EX (ball park quote from a distributor)? 

That is going be a tall order! I'm thinking it will come out in the 2500 range, has to be less than the monster pro even with the suspension. 

 

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If it is the same price of the Sherman then I am in. If it is considerably more then I will be investing in a Sherman, LOL. For 4K I want 3500+whr of battery, 3500-4000W motor and a perfect suspension design.  

 

and it needs to go a gazzilion miles per hour with no wobbles, pedal dips or cutouts, lol

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2 hours ago, gon2fast said:

Who is willing to pay $4000 USD for a EX (ball park quote from a distributor)? 

Yeah... Sounds like that price just has to drop pretty quickly or the wheel will be history before it learns to walk. So to say.

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On 7/17/2020 at 9:02 AM, FullTilt said:

Potentially a pedal clipper when compressed. Making pedals a bit less wide like those of the Veteran may help.

If you're compressing a suspension on a 45 degree lean you would have to be doing some pretty legendary riding...  Like the type you mostly find in video games.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, oolong said:

If you're compressing a suspension on a 45 degree lean you would have to be doing some pretty legendary riding...  Like the type you mostly find in video games.

Well, here's what can happen on a non-suspension wheel leaning maybe 30 degrees not even riding off road. The rider is a pretty legendary one though.

To me at least, tough to call if added suspension would help in this scenario. No suspension and wipeout vs suspension, pedal clip, then wipeout.

Edited by FullTilt

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29 minutes ago, FullTilt said:

Well, here's what can happen on a non-suspension wheel leaning maybe 30 degrees not even riding off road. The rider is a pretty legendary one though.

To me at least, tough to call if added suspension would help in this scenario. No suspension and wipeout vs suspension, pedal clip, then wipeout.

In that exact scenario the tire of a suspension wheel would not completely lose traction when the pedal hits the ground. The suspension would push the tire outwards.

How much that would help though is another matter, but it just might be enough to save the rider from falling down at relatively high speed without even any clothing in the hands and arms... :facepalm:

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, FullTilt said:

Well, here's what can happen on a non-suspension wheel leaning maybe 30 degrees not even riding off road. The rider is a pretty legendary one though.

To me at least, tough to call if added suspension would help in this scenario. No suspension and wipeout vs suspension, pedal clip, then wipeout.

This is "classic" example of pedals to low!  what I like in S18 suspension (over 100km which I have made so far on S18)  pedals are noticeably higher than on MSX, so such accident would not happen.

KEY goals of the suspension:

1- save you from falling on unnoticed hole/crater/uneven asphalt, bump, sleeping policeman, curb, etc

2- make pedals higher (and allow to control the height of pedals by pumping up suspension) to let you choose if You want the center of gravity higher with less chances for pedal catching ground or lower and provide slightly better stability but with dangers of pedal clipping ground. See recent Kuji Rolls YT video of theoretically tire change, but in fact the whole video shows pedal scraping on Veteran, and Kuji high speed fall on the uneven road due to lack of suspension. Veteran is useless for carving and is useless in the off-road due to low pedals.  

That is why we need high suspension - with a lot of travel - I think 50 mm is kind of too low. Pedals shall be higher than on MSX.  I had myself pedal catch while getting on the curb in the right turn - in well known area - just the asphalt was cut lower due to re-paving, so just 3 cm lower in front of the curb caused pedal to hit the curb and I had to jump off. 

Edited by Lukasz

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4 hours ago, FullTilt said:

Well, here's what can happen on a non-suspension wheel leaning maybe 30 degrees not even riding off road. The rider is a pretty legendary one though.

To me at least, tough to call if added suspension would help in this scenario. No suspension and wipeout vs suspension, pedal clip, then wipeout.

It looks like an uneven road made all the difference between something he's done hundreds of times and a wipe out.  Suspension would definitely help from the  standpoint that the pedals on the GW EX sit quite a bit higher than on the MSP.   

Also the suspension shouldn't compress too much unless you have quite a bit of force hitting against the wheel.   if you're leaning at 45 or close to it, there isn't much that is going to compress the suspension completely unless you're swerving while hitting boulders at an angle or something.  Most of the compression should only happen when the wheel is upright and you're going over obstacles or jumping down something.

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1 hour ago, oolong said:

Also the suspension shouldn't compress too much unless you have quite a bit of force hitting against the wheel. 

Seems that the manufacturer recommendations do not quite agree. Not sure if it’s 30% or 50%, but when the suspension is loaded with the recommended pressures, it definitely compresses a good amount when the rider steps on. If it wouldn’t, the suspension would either be too hard to ride, or it would top out too soon.

For example in cars the suspension compresses sometimes even more than 50% at the neutral position.

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4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Seems that the manufacturer recommendations do not quite agree. Not sure if it’s 30% or 50%, but when the suspension is loaded with the recommended pressures, it definitely compresses a good amount when the rider steps on. If it wouldn’t, the suspension would either be too hard to ride, or it would top out too soon.

For example in cars the suspension compresses sometimes even more than 50% at the neutral position.


Sure.  I guess I meant to say compressing too much beyond  the normal compression when first stepping on the wheel, but based on the videos I've seen, it definitely doesn't seem like they are riding it anywhere near 50% compression.  Looks more like 10-20% at most.

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On 7/22/2020 at 11:14 PM, gon2fast said:

Who is willing to pay $4000 USD for a EX (ball park quote from a distributor)? 

It's disappointing to see Gotway only tease new products instead of actually releasing them.  The summer is all but over and whatever wheels they come out with, will be arriving after peak riding season.  With that said, I am more interested in the Gotway EX than the Monster Pro.  Hopefully with Veteran pricing the Sherman reasonably with 240 cells ($2750-2850 USD), it will drive the price of Gotway wheels down.  With that said, I don't think Gotway will shoot themselves in the foot pricing the EX at $4000 USD.

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When i questioned Gotway about the $4000 price tag a few weeks ago they replied that pricing had not been set yet.

On a side note, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a S18 this morning anticipating that the EX is still several months out.

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Price confirmed - 

"Gotway just released a few hours ago some more pictures & pricing data. We're going to be looking at $3,400 for this model."

image.png

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That is going to need to be a very special wheel to pull that kind of money. 

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We haven't seen a lift speed yet on this giant motor. Will need to top 100 kmh or more to command this premium.

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56 minutes ago, gon2fast said:

Price confirmed - 

"Gotway just released a few hours ago some more pictures & pricing data. We're going to be looking at $3,400 for this model."

image.png

It looks like your image isn't loading correctly, would be able to try posting again? 

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