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Some beginner questions


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49 minutes ago, Nachos said:

For example the thing is rated for 30 mph but I assume that is on flat terrain.  If I'm on a steep hill how will I know when to back off?  

The higher the burden, the lower speed is possible and vice versa. It's some inintuitive linear relationship.

(Much) more details here 

 

51 minutes ago, Nachos said:

Will the wheel beep or tilt back when I approach the power limit

Not really, although appreciating GW's 80% alarm should keep one quite safe.

(Ps.: It's not the power limit, but a torque limit)

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13 hours ago, Nachos said:

how will I know when to back off?  

This is a good question, which troubled me a bit when I was riding the 16S. It’s not just about speed, as battery level affects it a lot, voltage readings can be slow to update or be imprecise alltogether, etc. It’s all very vague to say the least. How do you know wether I should back down or if there’s still lots of torque left?

 You don’t. There is no single power meter you can read and determine wether you are close to the limits or not. This is an aspect that requires common sense, experience, and the patience and humbleness to learn the many aspects of what the limits consist of.

I will say this though: If you ask this question, you probably have a good amount of power left to be utilized. The ones that don’t think about this are usually the ones that over-lean on their wheels.

 The Tesla is a powerful wheel, and I’m sure you can find YouTube videos where the rider accelerates much quicker than you. If not, then I take it back, you should tune it down a bit!

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On 4/20/2020 at 12:15 AM, mrelwood said:

This is a good question, which troubled me a bit when I was riding the 16S. It’s not just about speed, as battery level affects it a lot, voltage readings can be slow to update or be imprecise alltogether, etc. It’s all very vague to say the least. How do you know wether I should back down or if there’s still lots of torque left?

 You don’t. There is no single power meter you can read and determine wether you are close to the limits or not. This is an aspect that requires common sense, experience, and the patience and humbleness to learn the many aspects of what the limits consist of.

 

Thank you.  I think this is an issue or maybe I'm overthinking it but it would be nice to know when I'm pushing the machine too hard on hills.  The watts being reported by darkbot are sky high and I feel like I'm riding fairly conservatively.  I looked back after my ride yesterday and the average seems to be around 2700 watts over about 60 minutes.   I thought the motor was good for 1900 or 2000.   I never exceeded 20 mph.  In fact, every time I got close to 20, the machine starts beeping and I can't figure out how to make that go away either with Darkness bot or the Gotway app.  

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@Nachos, the most important and useful lesson about wattage is this: Ignore it. Everywhere. Anywhere you see "W" or "Watt", just skip that part. It can be measured in so many different ways that it can be made look exactly like the marketing deparment wants, on any product.

3 hours ago, Nachos said:

The watts being reported by darkbot are sky high and I feel like I'm riding fairly conservatively. 

The Gotway reported wattage is calculated from the controller output peak current. The inherent design of these kinds of motors requires that the output must be switched on and off several times per second. So the actual output power depends on how long the switch is in the "on" position. The reported current and hence the power do not take this into account, so therefore the reported values are of no use. I have supposedly exceeded 200 A and 12 000 W on my 84V MSX...

3 hours ago, Nachos said:

I thought the motor was good for 1900 or 2000.

The nominal motor wattage rating only tells us how much power can be applied constantly for several minutes. It makes it a meaningless value for everybody else but the ones who ride long steep roads up to the hills. Peak power value is usually 3-4 times larger, and would be a more meaningful value to us, but the manufacturers disagree. Even more, the controller output wattage would be the most important value to know, but it is known only for a single EUC, the Inmotion V11.

3 hours ago, Nachos said:

In fact, every time I got close to 20, the machine starts beeping and I can't figure out how to make that go away either with Darkness bot or the Gotway app.  

I think you can do this in the latest DB as well, but at least in the Gotway app, choose "Disable first and second alarm" in the speed settings.

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5 hours ago, Nachos said:

Thank you.  I think this is an issue or maybe I'm overthinking it but it would be nice to know when I'm pushing the machine too hard on hills. 

There are several "pushing to hard" going up hills:

- motor current. Fortunately a number shown by GW wheels. Install with Darknessbot/wheellog/EUC World a current alarm somewhere around 80-100A. It will beep inbetween, which can be ignored (short spikes). Once it beeps to often take back the burden, or the wiring/mosfet gets fried!

- overtemp. By the continous burden the electronics inside the wheel will get to warm. Around some 60-70°C the wheel will beep/tiltack and finally turn off.

- torque limit. Once you reach this, you'll overlean. Not really possible at very low speeds - here the wirings/mosfets fry before (which will lead to a one time cut off). At a bit higher speeds this can happen - deending on motor current and speed as shown in the anatomy of an overlean link a posted above.

5 hours ago, Nachos said:

The watts being reported by darkbot are sky high and I feel like I'm riding fairly conservatively.

Power is of no concern for this.

Especially as GW does not report any power, just some voltage multiplied by some current somewhere else. Results just in a senseless number.

5 hours ago, Nachos said:

  I looked back after my ride yesterday and the average seems to be around 2700 watts over about 60 minutes.   I thought the motor was good for 1900 or 2000.   I never exceeded 20 mph.  In fact, every time I got close to 20, the machine starts beeping and I can't figure out how to make that go away either with Darkness bot or the Gotway app.  

So you have set no speed limit?

Then it could be the 80% alarm, which cannot be disabled. I'm not to experienced with GW/Tesla wheels but afaik at 20 mph ( 32 km/h) one gets this 80% alarm only with quite high burdens and/or low batteries?

Anyway a certain sign to release and not push the wheel further?

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Hey Yall, 

It's been a week since I set foot on my first EUC, a Gotway Tesla V2 in a vacant parking lot.  I figured I'd shared my experience here since this forum has been so helpful in my learning and information gathering process.  My thoughts so far.  EUC riding is a fun, useful and efficient transportation tool and activity, I am at 138 miles on the clock.  So far, I've ridden around in neighborhood, city streets, bike paths, two lane roads, parks, large mountains and some limited trail use.  

This morning was the mountain ride which I finished with 36% battery.  With an estimated 2500 vertical feet over 25 miles, it's the most battery I've used on a single ride so far.  I've mostly been enjoying the residential rides each work each day as a nice way to relax and unwind.  I use the hilly neighborhood streets along the flanks of our foothills to go up and down, exploring and practicing my turning and carving like I'm on skis.  

I feel a little guilty about not getting on my bike as much but I do think the EUC provides some positive benefits with respect to core strengthening and balance.  It's a good complement to other activities but I'm making sure to maintain my workout and fitness goals and using EUC rides as my reward / incentive.  

I have turned off the first and second alarms because I was getting beeping around 20 mph (tiltback setting is still on).  I'm not really trying to push the speed limits of the machine but I did hit 27.4 mph apparently.  

My wife wanted to try learning so we are working on that.  We watched the video above and I took her to the parking lot to practice.  She hasn't gotten the hang of it yet.  I think as a mountain / road biker used to balancing a bike at low speeds, learning was fairly easy but it's probably different for everyone.  I think we'll try a grass field next.  If she likes the Tesla, I may be looking at an MSP as my next Gotway :-) 

 

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36 minutes ago, Nachos said:

I feel a little guilty about not getting on my bike as much but I do think the EUC provides some positive benefits with respect to core strengthening and balance.  It's a good complement to other activities but I'm making sure to maintain my workout and fitness goals and using EUC rides as my reward / incentive. 

Right there with ya'. I am thinking that the bike will come back out after the EUC newness wears off in a couple years.

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1 hour ago, Nachos said:

Hey Yall, 

It's been a week since I set foot on my first EUC, a Gotway Tesla V2 in a vacant parking lot.  I figured I'd shared my experience here since this forum has been so helpful in my learning and information gathering process.  My thoughts so far.  EUC riding is a fun, useful and efficient transportation tool and activity, I am at 138 miles on the clock.  So far, I've ridden around in neighborhood, city streets, bike paths, two lane roads, parks, large mountains and some limited trail use.  

This morning was the mountain ride which I finished with 36% battery.  With an estimated 2500 vertical feet over 25 miles, it's the most battery I've used on a single ride so far.  I've mostly been enjoying the residential rides each work each day as a nice way to relax and unwind.  I use the hilly neighborhood streets along the flanks of our foothills to go up and down, exploring and practicing my turning and carving like I'm on skis.  

I feel a little guilty about not getting on my bike as much but I do think the EUC provides some positive benefits with respect to core strengthening and balance.  It's a good complement to other activities but I'm making sure to maintain my workout and fitness goals and using EUC rides as my reward / incentive.  

I have turned off the first and second alarms because I was getting beeping around 20 mph (tiltback setting is still on).  I'm not really trying to push the speed limits of the machine but I did hit 27.4 mph apparently.  

My wife wanted to try learning so we are working on that.  We watched the video above and I took her to the parking lot to practice.  She hasn't gotten the hang of it yet.  I think as a mountain / road biker used to balancing a bike at low speeds, learning was fairly easy but it's probably different for everyone.  I think we'll try a grass field next.  If she likes the Tesla, I may be looking at an MSP as my next Gotway :-) 

 

I'm really jealous right now of those of you who have the stamina to ride for longer periods.  I'm pretty out of shape, I guess, for someone who used to be very active (rode my bicycle as my only form of transport in hilly San Francisco for a few years).  I can only go about 4 miles before my legs start shaking and I lose the ability to control the wheel.  I'd love to be able to go for longer but right now I'm just focused on riding as much as I can to build up some more muscles.

Anyone else having this problem as a beginner?

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13 minutes ago, Stillhart said:

 

I'm really jealous right now of those of you who have the stamina to ride for longer periods.  I'm pretty out of shape, I guess, for someone who used to be very active (rode my bicycle as my only form of transport in hilly San Francisco for a few years).  I can only go about 4 miles before my legs start shaking and I lose the ability to control the wheel.  I'd love to be able to go for longer but right now I'm just focused on riding as much as I can to build up some more muscles.

Anyone else having this problem as a beginner?

Yup, it will pass in time.  Cold temperatures make it worse. Youll get conditioned AND as you get better you'll micro-manage the wheel less/easier. Combined, you'll be outlasting your battery soon.

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7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Yup, it will pass in time.  Cold temperatures make it worse. Youll get conditioned AND as you get better you'll micro-manage the wheel less/easier. Combined, you'll be outlasting your battery soon.

Hate to tell you, it ain't cold here anymore.  It's in the 90s this weekend and we're breaking 100 next week.   :-D  I don't know about you, the pool is calling my name!

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2 hours ago, Nachos said:

My wife wanted to try learning so we are working on that.

That is awesome!  Don't push her too hard and tell her she is doing great regardless of what you think. It takes time. My wife is terrible at balance and she finally got the hang of it after several months. It only takes 15 minutes a day.  At one point, she was about to give up for good.  I encouraged her by telling her that she was right, Woman just don't have the determination require to learn how to ride these things.  She is very pleased with herself now. She can ride 40 miles at a time now. It makes her proud when she watches videos of other people learning to rider. 

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1 hour ago, Stillhart said:

 

I'm really jealous right now of those of you who have the stamina to ride for longer periods.  I'm pretty out of shape, I guess, for someone who used to be very active (rode my bicycle as my only form of transport in hilly San Francisco for a few years).  I can only go about 4 miles before my legs start shaking and I lose the ability to control the wheel.  I'd love to be able to go for longer but right now I'm just focused on riding as much as I can to build up some more muscles.

Anyone else having this problem as a beginner?

Which muscles are getting tired?   You could try experimenting with small variations in stance / foot positioning on the wheel.  I feel like that helps my feet.  If it's calves, I think running helps.  Quads / glutes... one legged body weight squats or wall squats and lunges.  I do a leg resistance workout 1x per week, a core-focused session and then and run or bike 3x a week.  

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5 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

That is awesome!  Don't push her too hard and tell her she is doing great regardless of what you think. It takes time. My wife is terrible at balance and she finally got the hang of it after several months. It only takes 15 minutes a day.  At one point, she was about to give up for good.  I encouraged her by telling her that she was right, Woman just don't have the determination require to learn how to ride these things.  She is very pleased with herself now. She can ride 40 miles at a time now. It makes her proud when she watches videos of other people learning to rider. 

This is great advice.  I am sort of excited for her to pick it up because it's literally the only sport / activity that we can share equipment.  However, I need to keep that in check and not force it.  

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