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16x Cut Off and Repair Questions


Oscapuss

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I'll start be giving a brief backstory.  Have had the 16x for only around 2 months.  This is third EUC I've owned, have been riding for couple of years.  

I had only put around 300 km on the 16x when I had a high speed cut off around 3 weeks ago.  Battery was fully charged,  was riding around 43-44 km/h when I got the first power warning beep.  Wheel cut suddenly afterwards and I took a bad fall.  Broke wrist, tore something in knee.  Still cant walk, and still don't know how serious because it is difficult to get an MRI in Canada during pandemic right now.  Either way, wheel took a beat down and that was the hardest part to swallow for me personally.   I still have a V10 as a backup, but it's painful to go back to that after getting to know the 16x.

Inner and outer shell damaged enough to require replacement.   Power button connector broke, but I managed to straighten prongs on connector and get it working again.  Rim took a pretty significant bend, so I imagine rim could be cracked and motor will need to be replaced.  All internal components are working fine as far as I can tell.  

Question is; do I wait to diagnose board and see if this could be covered under warranty? (Unlikely and shop is closed for unknown time due to lockdown) or do I try and order in parts from other places while I still can and repair myself.   The broken wrist is making it tough to do, but I also dont wan't to wait around all season for repair center to possibly re-open.

Anyone know how difficult it is to transfer all components to a new inner shell?  I've studied the tear down videos, but I imagine it will still be a pain in the ass.

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Tough luck.  Got to be a defective wheel.

Curious, were you wearing wrist or knee pads?

Bruce

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Was wearing wrist guards, knee pads, elbow pads, full face.   Still broke wrist. 

Not sure if I should invest in parts and repair, hold off for dealer to diagnose (if they ever re-open)  or just give up on the wheel.   Cut my losses. 

If replacing both shells, top panel, motor and board (if it's faulty) might as well buy a new wheel.

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Just goes to show you folks, wear protective gear.  Would have likely shattered wrist or broke arm otherwise. 

Also made me realize how dangerous it is to wipe out at those speeds.  Not for rider,  but pedestrians.   Wheel tumbled down sidewalk at least 60 feet.  Lucky it never hit a car, house, or pedestrians.   50 pound wheel at that speed is a lethal projectile.   

Riding 60-70 km/h in urban areas seems insane to me now and that will always be a hurdle in legalization of EUC's.  

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52 minutes ago, Oscapuss said:

Also made me realize how dangerous it is to wipe out at those speeds.  Not for rider,  but pedestrians.   Wheel tumbled down sidewalk at least 60 feet.  Lucky it never hit a car, house, or pedestrians.   50 pound wheel at that speed is a lethal projectile.   

I use a breakaway leash made of paracord.  It trips the wheel if (when) I come off.

Thanks for the info on your safety gear.

Bruce

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2 hours ago, PennBruce said:

Got to be a defective wheel.

Why?

7 hours ago, Oscapuss said:

Battery was fully charged,  was riding around 43-44 km/h when I got the first power warning beep.  Wheel cut suddenly afterwards and I took a bad fall. 

A description of an absolute normal overlean... :(

Best wishes for a good recovery @Oscapuss!

 

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1 hour ago, Chriull said:

Why?

A description of an absolute normal overlean... :(

Battery/connector  problem was triggered my mind from @Oscapuss comment that he had a power warning.  You correctly recognized it as a speed alert.

I wonder if the set back speed was set equal to the speed alert warning.

Bruce

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that wheel was never to trust from the day one ......
I wonder why you bought it since 18XL was available (and still available)

let's imagine for a moment you change all inner parts in a new shell
do you still want to ride that thing above 37kmh ? or sell it and get a proper one for your advanced skill.

Edited by Meserias
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Sorry to hear about your crash and i hope you have a speedy recovery.  I just recently had a crash on my 16x and had to replace the inner shell, one side of the outer shell and the trolley rails.  It wasn’t overly expensive to fix these parts... i am a little concerned about the chance of cutoff.   In case you decide to fix it yourself,  I posted some install notes and tips here:

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I did decide to go ahead and fix.  Still love the wheel and don't want to give up on it.  I am currently in process of rebuilding after disassembling all the components.  Swapping everything to new inner shell.  

Jason at ewheels was awesome enough to help me get parts, including new motor.  Was not possible to get them in Ontario right now with the lockdown. 

I was running 1.07 firmware, and board is V 1.4.  Not sure if that is the old or not.  

The rim took damage from tire hitting curb no doubt.  Fell on road, wheel wound up on the sidewalk.   Think it hit curb, dented rim and cracked it, then bounced down sidewalk. 

 

 

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Insert the Allen nut and with strong hammer blows from above. As if you want to drive a nail into the wall, then try to loosen it. If that doesn't work, then heat it up with a strong flame so that it goes fast and the heat can't spread that way. 

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9 hours ago, Oscapuss said:

The only tricky part I have encountered so far on the build is getting the pedal hanger brackets off the old motor. 

Any tips on that?  Can't get the torque by hand with a bum wrist.

 

3 hours ago, buell47 said:

Insert the Allen nut and with strong hammer blows from above. As if you want to drive a nail into the wall, then try to loosen it. If that doesn't work, then heat it up with a strong flame so that it goes fast and the heat can't spread that way. 

 

I think Oscapuss needs to remove the pedal hanger brackets from the motor and not the pedals from the mounts.  Maybe try some WD 40?  Not sure if you should use an impact drill as you might strip the screws.  Are they Phillips screws?  

 

John

 

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On 4/15/2020 at 7:30 PM, Oscapuss said:

Fixed the 16x.  The heat worked to strip bracket bolts.  Used a hair dryer for 1 min.   That was enough surprisingly.  Much thanks for the tips guys.  Only thing I missed was a broken LED strip.  Will fix once this shit storm blows over. 

Tried it out, worked great.  Made a few adjustments while I was in there.  Mainly a soft foam coat around exposed edges.  I noticed that there were some gaps around front and rear panels.  Hopefully that helps with water issues.  Also blocked off headlight and mud gaurd as suggested.   

Felt fucking awesome rebuilding it knowing I was in control of the quality.  Terrible crash, but loved the rebuild. 

Glad it has a pulse again. 

Like a Phoenix, born from a shit storm of plastic embers, risen to ride again.

 

 

 

 

 

Great to hear you’re back in business!  I felt the same way after fixing my 16x as I’m behind a desk at work and don’t get a chance to work with my hands.... Hope you heal up fast! 

Any tips/tricks you want to pass along from your rebuild?

 

John

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Rebuild was pretty smooth actually.   Only a couple things I would mention to anyone doing same.

As you said, the trolley handle mechanism for lift sensor is not the same on newer inner shells.  I adjusted the spring tension tighter on lift switch than it was stock.  I personally find it does not rattle it click as much with a few extra rotations on the screw.

I used exterior foam for window insulation to line the front and rear panels to seal any gaps that were there on stock model.  Trimmed with a box cutter so the foam doesn't overhang the seams between the shell and panels.

I also used window insulation wedges for the rear and front mud gaurds to seal off the gaps.  Worked well and weatherproof material. 

I did more caulking than kingsong did as well.  Also lined inner shell seam with duct tape over top of curved silicon sealant.   Just as a backup. 

Use rubber to block off opposite unused speaker hole as well.  Better than the shitty foam pad that came on it.

The new padding for outer shell is also significantly better I noticed.  Much thicker top pad.  Noticeable difference when riding.   I actually didn't notice building until I used it.  Worth upgrading.

I swapped out the foam under the control board as well.  Used a softer thicker foam in combo with silicone sealant to make sure nothing would get through.

Overall rides much better with new motor, and I think the soft foam lining has improved the creaking plastic sounds.  Runs completely silent now.  

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Thanks for the tips!

 

On 4/19/2020 at 11:28 AM, Oscapuss said:

I also used window insulation wedges for the rear and front mud gaurds to seal off the gaps.  Worked well and weatherproof material. 

I did more caulking than kingsong did as well.  Also lined inner shell seam with duct tape over top of curved silicon sealant.   Just as a backup

 I’m going to open up my wheel this weekend to see how the caulking is holding up and also how much dust has gotten in after the extra weatherproofing.  I’ll probably add the duck tape as well.   Good idea.

 

On 4/19/2020 at 11:28 AM, Oscapuss said:

The new padding for outer shell is also significantly better I noticed.  Much thicker top pad. 

I noticed that too!  I only needed to replace one side but am thinking about buying another set of pads so that it’ll be symmetrical... I’ve done the Kuji pads upgrade so I don’t really notice the difference.  

 

 

Edited by Johnw
Grammar
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/5/2020 at 3:47 PM, Oscapuss said:

Also made me realize how dangerous it is to wipe out at those speeds.  Not for rider,  but pedestrians.   Wheel tumbled down sidewalk at least 60 feet.  Lucky it never hit a car, house, or pedestrians.   50 pound wheel at that speed is a lethal projectile.   

This is indeed scary and all way in my mind when riding close to pedestrians.
I gonna slow down at much as possible or some time just stop and wait for them to pass.

We don't have liability insurance while riding EUC.
If we're unlucky and fall, we have protective gears and/or our own health insurance, so most of the time, we're fined.
But if we're extremely unlucky and the wheel go on to hit some pedestrians... think about their medical bills, works lost, mental heath, etc... things could turn bad real soon...

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Impressive work rebuilding your 16X!
That must have been quite a task yet at the same time very gratifying.

Could you explain a bit more what you mean when you say that you got the first power warning beep?
Did you get the 4 quick beeps 88% power alarm?
Did you do a heavy acceleration/lean?
Are you a heavy rider?

I am surprised that you have a 1.4 board for a 16X that is now a little over three months old.
The 1.4 board with FW 1.05 is the most fun to be had with the 16X.

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Mine came with the 1.4 board and firmware 1.06.  I upgraded to 1.07 within first week. 

Yeah I got the 4 beeps 88% power alarm.  Did not do an aggressive lean or turn.  Just dropped immediately after.  I know exact speed I was going because I was literally passing a digital speed sign on the road.  I remember looking at the big 45 km/h before having the "oh shit" moment when I realized exactly what was happening.

I'm not overly heavy rider.  Around 185 lbs.  

Gotta say I have trouble trusting the build quality on the 16x now.  My rim hit curve during that crash and bent.  Sure enough I could see rim cracked wide open once tire was removed.   Fair enough, to be expected.   Was a high speed crash on pavement.   No biggie. 

Was riding last week on the brand new motor,  40 psi in tire.  Hit a construction area where they were repaving road, so sidewalk had a couple inch drop.  I was riding around 20 km/h and hit it, bumped up over no problem.   Again, thought nothing of it.  Start feeling a wobble on ride home.   Get home and check rim, and again rim dented right in.  Visible crack.

Almost exact same as the crack that happened during crash.  I just don't get it.  Never had that issue on any other wheel.  Was not riding aggressive and psi was high enough. I know if I take tire off I'll see the exact same tear on the rim.  Not sure if this is a common 16x problem, but christ these should be able to handle it.

Super upset.  One month later and again, motor is shot.  I dont even know if I want to bother replacing again.  Too much money and despair to sink into the same wheel.  

Edited by Oscapuss
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1 hour ago, Oscapuss said:

Mine came with the 1.4 board and firmware 1.06.  I upgraded to 1.07 within first week. 

Yeah I got the 4 beeps 88% power alarm.  Did not do an aggressive lean or turn.  Just dropped immediately after.  I know exact speed I was going because I was literally passing a digital speed sign on the road.  I remember looking at the big 45 km/h before having the "oh shit" moment when I realized exactly what was happening.

I'm not overly heavy rider.  Around 185 lbs.  

Gotta say I have trouble trusting the build quality on the 16x now.  My rim hit curve during that crash and bent.  Sure enough I could see rim cracked wide open once tire was removed.   Fair enough, to be expected.   Was a high speed crash on pavement.   No biggie. 

Was riding last week on the brand new motor,  40 psi in tire.  Hit a construction area where they were repaving road, so sidewalk had a couple inch drop.  I was riding around 20 km/h and hit it, bumped up over no problem.   Again, thought nothing of it.  Start feeling a wobble on ride home.   Get home and check rim, and again rim dented right in.  Visible crack.

Almost exact same as the crack that happened during crash.  I just don't get it.  Never had that issue on any other wheel.  Was not riding aggressive and psi was high enough. I know if I take tire off I'll see the exact same tear on the rim.  Not sure if this is a common 16x problem, but christ these should be able to handle it.

Super upset.  One month later and again, motor is shot.  I dont even know if I want to bother replacing again.  Too much money and despair to sink into the same wheel.  

Yeah you did the right thing moving away from 1.06 anyway. That was a bit overly conservative.
You're weight is quite normal. I had a 225lb rider on my wheel yesterday and he man handled it a bit... I got a bit worried lol.
You weren't on an upward incline/gradient or anything like that?

For me to get the 88% power alarm I have to start pressing the soft tilt-back a bit aggressively... so I would have to be asking for it and tempting fate.
My riding weight is 150 lbs though.
I have done it a few times to see how much I need to do for it to warn me.

I'm happy to hear you got out of it rather unscathed... I hope you heal up well.

So this was a new motor that got a damaged rim? I consider 40 PSI to be rather high even for your weight. Crazy that it got dented and even cracked.
My MSX has been bullet proof in this regard. My 16X has a couple of dents because of a bad combo of low pressure and high drops at skate parks. My friend Simon dented and cracked his 18XL rim but that was due to low pressure.

I agree that it is too much to sink into the same wheel. Fool me once... shame on you.. fool me twice...

We ride EUC to get rid of headaches... not to get them.

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