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Lacroix/Kaly/etc. electric skateboards vs EUCs in terms of raw fun


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I'm interested in buying my first personal electric vehicle, but am split between the Lacroix Nazare (an electric skateboard) and an electric unicycle (Kingsong 16x or MSX). The EUC is proportionally cheaper (per unit range) and has a bigger wheel (=safer in some respects), but I'm primarily interested in raw fun.

For any folks who have experience with Lacroix boards (or other high-end boards like Kaly etc.) and EUCs both, which do you find more fun on smooth, open pavement? Is the side-stance carving on a board more fun than carving on the EUC (as in https://youtu.be/KNcrewUfjHU?t=198)? Any other factors that make you favor one over the other in terms of fun?

I get that this is subjective, but I'm just trying to get a feel for why someone might find one more fun than the other, and why.

Thanks.

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EUCs also have the benefit of not needing a remote, the front / back lean is very organic and natural. The most fun tech item I’ve come accross ever. Useful too.

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On perfect pavement, the rides are the rides, going at speed on any PEV is fun.

But the joys I get from EUC that I will never be able to find in esk8 (city version):

  • Building/sidewalk transitions: the ability to surf 35+ mph car traffic, then instantly decelerate onto the sidewalk at pedestrian pace, then glide into an office building while dismounting and popping my trolley into walking my wheel (no stopping) into the building in one fell swoop.
  • Bumper-to-bumper car traffic slaloming: esk8 has super limited turning radius, especially if you are packed in tight quarters like car traffic, whereas on EUC, I can turn 180 on a dime.
  • Stuffing all manners of food and drink in my face while on route to my destination, seeing as there is no need to constantly hold and press a controller.

Both are fun, but with esk8, especially the higher end ones like Kaly, LaCroix, etc, it's just more cumbersome when you inevitably want to incorporate it into your practical everyday life (carrying the board, wanting to ride in rain but can't, etc.)

The main reason we've been seeing more and more esk8 guys in NYC convert to EUC are for those very reasons: practicality. Many think they won't want to use their esk8 for everyday stuff (and some don't), but when you get hooked to riding instead of walking or taking other means of transportation, that's where they realize the deficiencies, ie. not always riding becomes not fun.

And for reference, I snowboard, and have tried and been tempted by the many esk8 here in the city, but ultimately it's the practical stuff that's stopping me from buying in (well, until they develop a true e-snowboard that can edge NYC pavement on all terrain tires :lol:).

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Well I have several high end e skateboards, yes I love taking out the Lacroix or the Evolve’s on a carving expedition on smooth pavement. Nothing beats that feeling as long as the road is slick.. it’s truly amazing. I hard-boot alpine snowboard and the feeling is similar.

However, the Euc’s I own far outweigh the versatility factor, from trail rides, long range adventures and quick shopping having hands free to carry a case of wine! It’s a privilege to own both, but if you must choose between the two get the uni😉

Edited by Mrd777
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It's use case that seems to be the killer factor. Unfortunately, there's no practical route from my apartment to my job on roads less than 45 MPH, so any PEV I get will be a toy, more or less. I won't be able to commute with it in other words.

Many of the videos I've seen on YouTube are set in NYC, where riders mix freely with (or more properly, complete smoke) car traffic. A lot of these folks don't have cars and use their PEVs as their form of practical everyday transportation, meaning it needs to go in restaurants, up stairs, into elevators, onto subways, into taxis, and so forth. Additionally, they don't get to pick the streets as much: dealing with shoddy asphalt, potholes, and road construction is a regular occurrence, not something that can be avoided. Under these circumstances, the extreme maneuverability of EUCs (the ability to slip between bumpers without a sluggish turning radius, as mentioned above), their safer large tire, and their far superior portability (via trolley handles) make them the clear choice. It's just icing on the cake that they are proportionally less expensive per unit range (and by quite a bit too).

On the other hand, my planned usage is going to be on a web of 25 MPH residential streets near where I live. The pavement is smooth, and the roads are largely completely free of traffic (so I'll be able to let loose carving mostly unhindered). I may drive to other such places every once in a while for variety, but this sort of road will be primarily what I am planning to ride on, along with a few local paved bike paths. I'll have to lug whatever I get up two flights of stairs to my apartment, but other than that, portability isn't much of a factor (I'll be riding it not doing other things with it in tow).

This is why I am specifically asking about fun -- as much as it can be compared somewhat objectively. EUCs always win on the practicality front, but since my usage will be on reasonably smooth, open roads, for my use case, it seems to me like fun trumps all else as a variable. Hopefully that makes it a bit clearer what I'm after in terms of comparison.

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They have crazy acceleration and top speed.

Do you think boards like the Nazare and Kaly XL out-accelerate the EUCs (even the 16" ones)? Is it even close? It seems like the smaller wheel size combined with greater overall motor output (even two of the less-powerful 6374 motors is a lot more power than 2000W or the 2500W of the new MSuper Pro) would suggest that the boards ought to seriously out-accelerate the EUCs, but I've never been able to find much writing on the topic from people familiar with both.

I would count acceleration as another variable in the fun factor formula.

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59 minutes ago, Coffee guy said:

Wow Mike S., I’ve never seen e-boarding like this! Thanks for the vid., and much respect to all the e-riders !

You can carve something wicked @Mrd777 !

Glad you enjoyed! Yeah those guys mean business haha.

The acceleration on their boards is crazy. For me to accelerate like that I would have to do some serious practice and also take some pretty big risks.

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17 hours ago, StevenTammen said:

It seems like the smaller wheel size combined with greater overall motor output (even two of the less-powerful 6374 motors is a lot more power than 2000W or the 2500W of the new MSuper Pro) would suggest that the boards ought to seriously out-accelerate the EUCs

Those numbers are misleading... the hub-motor in EUC's is physically huge in comparison to Esk8, and is not the only thing that makes up the continuous duty rating (e.g.: 2500W MSP you mentioned). Peak power is about 10kW.

But in general, Esk8 has more zippyness and sensation of acceleration. With Esk8 you can pin the throttle (hand control) and adjust your stance on the long deck accordingly, which feels natural. For EUC to match it, you have to find a way to get comfortable with extreme lean angles, with only the relatively small pedals to stand on. Very few people achieve it. Ergonomics are the limit, not the motor.

68572859_469541353879399_445139467784473

(This fellow is about to get very bloody...)

Edited by RagingGrandpa
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i transitioned from Eboards to EUCs, i have a diy trampa  all terrain board which i barely touch my board now.since i got my EUC a Inmotion V10, In my eyes other than the learning curve requiring more  patience the EUC beats a board in every way

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23 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Your link to the 6374 motors show Max Power 3250 Watts.

EUC has abandoned listing max/peak/momentary power a long time ago, in favor of average/sustained power, as it's more representative of motor power to list what power it can sustain on average duration, than what it can output for a few second spurts here and there.

When you see EUC power state 2000 Watts, the max/peak/momentary power is at least double that, sometimes near triple.

so does that mean if we're shopping for parts and need to know Amp ratings to look for, we should use the Max power / voltage of machine? is the max power usually listed in the specs somewhere

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2 hours ago, someguy152 said:

so does that mean if we're shopping for parts and need to know Amp ratings to look for, we should use the Max power / voltage of machine? is the max power usually listed in the specs somewhere

If you're building a PEV, you would use max power because you don't want to damage the motor by hitting it with more current than it is rated for max/peak.

But if you're trying to get a ballpark sense of the overall real-time performance power, average gives you a better picture, as the wheel sustains that average power over the duration of the ride, as opposed to max/peak, which only happens briefly for high power events (if at all), like acceleration from start, extreme uphills, etc. (note, as has been beaten to death on these forums, max speed does not require max power)

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11 hours ago, AtlasP said:

Leaving aside practicality (where as you say, EUCs win hands down), then the primary comparison is not [carving on esk8] vs [carving on EUCs], but rather [carving on esk8] vs [the sensation of floating on EUCs as an extension of your body]. With esk8, you perform the skill of staying on the board, whereas with EUCs, the wheel follows you on an intuitive level. This is the thing people try to capture when they describe the sensation as "floating"--it's not simply the cushiness of the large, air-inflated tire (although that's part of it), but rather I believe it's primarily the experience of just 'willing' your body to move forward, with nothing but the most intuitive and almost-imperceptible slight movement in your upper body like when just about to start walking, except before your legs would have to do anything/without taking a single step you just start moving forward completely effortlessly--as if the machine anticipates your intent and does the work for you. This is a whole other level of a vehicle becoming an extension of your body which cannot be matched by any category that came before.

So does carving on an EUC compare with carving on esk8?--not quite (although it does to some degree; and if this matters to you a ton I personally would advise a 2.5"-width-or-narrower tire). But then does riding an esk8 board compare at all to the sensation of floating on an EUC--not even close. There's a reason--above and beyond the practicality side--why the majority of those who spend a fair amount of time on both, eventually wind up committing to the EUC side.

Thanks for elaborating. This was just the sort of thing I was hoping to get some perspective on -- the "feel."

You know, something else in ride feel I've been curious about is "twitchiness at speed." Unless you lock down your trucks down a lot, once you get past a certain speed threshold on skateboards, it becomes interesting, shall we say. I'm not even talking strictly about speed wobbles, but just extreme responsiveness at speed that takes a practiced rider to manage. (From what I've heard, the new Lacroix trucks and other wide trucks like the Matrix trucks and Trampa trucks help combat this some).

I've had multiple people I ask say that EUCs are "more stable" at speed, along with the whole floating thing. Now, since I know EUCs have superior turning at lower speeds due to the single contact patch, I've always wondered how they don't end up wobbling all over the place once you pick up speed. I'm guessing it's gyroscopic stability effects from the wheel rotation -- that is, when you are going slower and need to turn better you can, but when you are going faster and don't want the turning responsiveness (since turns at speed are much less sharp), then the wheel is already less willing to change directions? Would this mean that larger tires (diameter, width) have a more pronounced gyroscopic effect?

This factor too would contribute to a more relaxed, floaty feeling, I would think.

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2 hours ago, StevenTammen said:

I've had multiple people I ask say that EUCs are "more stable" at speed, along with the whole floating thing. Now, since I know EUCs have superior turning at lower speeds due to the single contact patch, I've always wondered how they don't end up wobbling all over the place once you pick up speed. I'm guessing it's gyroscopic stability effects from the wheel rotation -- that is, when you are going slower and need to turn better you can, but when you are going faster and don't want the turning responsiveness (since turns at speed are much less sharp), then the wheel is already less willing to change directions? Would this mean that larger tires (diameter, width) have a more pronounced gyroscopic effect?

Precisely.

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On 4/3/2020 at 2:11 PM, StevenTammen said:

I've had multiple people I ask say that EUCs are "more stable" at speed, along with the whole floating thing. Now, since I know EUCs have superior turning at lower speeds due to the single contact patch, I've always wondered how they don't end up wobbling all over the place once you pick up speed. I'm guessing it's gyroscopic stability effects from the wheel rotation -- that is, when you are going slower and need to turn better you can, but when you are going faster and don't want the turning responsiveness (since turns at speed are much less sharp), then the wheel is already less willing to change directions? Would this mean that larger tires (diameter, width) have a more pronounced gyroscopic effect?

Can anyone comment on this phenomenon in a little more detail?

Having never ridden an EUC myself, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around "how big" an effect this gyroscopic stuff has in general, as well as specific details like at what speeds it really kicks in, how big a difference a larger diameter tire makes, how big a difference a wider tire makes, and so on.

Understanding this consideration is for the purpose of comparing EUCs against other PEVs that I'm also interested in.

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15 hours ago, StevenTammen said:

Can anyone comment on this phenomenon in a little more detail?

Having never ridden an EUC myself, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around "how big" an effect this gyroscopic stuff has in general, as well as specific details like at what speeds it really kicks in, how big a difference a larger diameter tire makes, how big a difference a wider tire makes, and so on.

Understanding this consideration is for the purpose of comparing EUCs against other PEVs that I'm also interested in.

Of the wheels I own and/or have ridden extensively:

  • The smaller 16" x ~2/2.1" wheels, like the V8 and KS16S, are both light and extremely agile even at their highest speeds (although which are only ~17/21 mph respectively).
  • The larger 2.5"-wide wheels, like the V10F and KS18XL, are both a bit heavier and so ride like they have a bit more mass (a little slower to speed up and slow down), but still turn pretty great well into the low-to-mid 20s mph. (I haven't really ridden the KS18XL-specifically too close to its max 30 mph.)
  • I have around 500 miles on my 100v Nikola with its ~17" x 3" tire, and I have a love-hate relationship with it. I love the top speed, but I hate most everything else about it, in particular revolving around how it turns/handles (or doesn't, as the case may be). It's great for going fast in a straight line, but it just doesn't fscking want to turn once you get into the mid-20s mph and higher. (So in the teens mph it turns great, but there's some point in the low-to-mid 20s mph where turning just becomes impossible and it's like a light switch, not gradual.) I'm pretty convinced the 3" wide tire is the culprit, as it feels like what everyone complained about the 4.1" Z10.
    • Ultimately, if you want 100v speeds, you're stuck with a 3" tire. But if you're going to stay in the 20s mph or lower, I strongly prefer the 2.5" tire on something like the KS18XL. (So for example while I'd take a 100v Nikola over a (84v) KS18XL due to its speed, otherwise I'd take a (84v) KS18XL over an 84v Nikola any day of the week--specifically due to handling/turning related to so-called "gyro effect".)

Some context: I'm 5'9" and ~150 lbs, so a rider who's built differently than me might have a very different experience.

Edited by AtlasP
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