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ShanesPlanet

Computer video cards for editing.

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Posted (edited)

I am currently running a self built win PC. I recently made the leap from 7/64 to 10/64. Aside from usb drivers being a lot slower, Im finding it fairly stable. I run a dual video card setup, as I've normally been running 4 monitors in 1920x1080p since i can recall. Well, its seems that my video cards (gforce 650Ti) are on the list of 4K as maximum resolution (as defined per go pro). At 4.0g i-7 quad with 32ggb ddr3 ram all ssd system, its going to cost a LOT to get very little gains from a new motherboard and cpu. I am running a 1000w quality psu. Before I invest in 8k capable cards, I really would like to know a little more. Of course, theres always the processor or data bus being the bottleneck too? Attn computer geeks!

My question is this.. Is everyone buying just one REALLY fast and capable (yet expensive) video card for editing and to run 4 monitors? Are people buying one fast card and using much bigger monitors and less of them? Is it still better to buy a pair of cards? I read up on it a little and seems that a faster card is better than 2, as most software cant utilize both cards at once, properly.  Space and heat isnt an issue, but cost always is. I remember a time (a decade ago), when I was up to snuff on this. It seems that tech has come along much faster than my education. Any suggestions, or perhaps good leads to at least get me down the right rabbit hole?

Edited by travsformation

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What's a copmuter? :P

As to your question, sorry I can't help. Like you, I used to be up-to-date on everything tech, from CPUs to graphics cards, I'm now totally out of my element...

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Random thoughts and questions:

Can you say why you need to have 4 monitors?? Using 2 would make life much easier. It's nearly always better to have one GPU over two but your requirement for 4 monitors makes that difficult. Do all the monitors need to be running at the highest resolution? Do you know what part of your system is slowing you down? You can use windows task manager to see how used your CPU, memory, disk and GPU are. You want to look at task manager while you're actually doing whatever it is you do. Your GPU's sound like the weakest part of your system (you don't mention exactly which i7 processor you have) but luckily it's fairly easy to just get better GPU's - you could even look into 2nd hand GPU's like a pair of GTX 1070's but obviously it depends on whether they'll fit on your motherboard.

You can use ubm to compare various bits of hardware.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks MIKE, great advice. I actually did go to 2 monitors for a minute and used SLI config. I didnt see any real advantages. I then opened PowerDirector and ran a project that kicks its ass. Again, just 2 monitors with dual in sli and i saw no gains. I ran task manager and DUH... the gpu's are idling along, one at 40% max and the other at 5%. The bottleneck IS the i-7 quad. Its the same bottleneck during export as well. I dont know why i forgot to check and just assumed that the video was the bottleneck.  I run 4 monitors as I produce music and its is VERY helpfull to keep track of hundreds of tracks. Since upgrade to win10 tho, it seems my audio program is having issues with graphic demands.  I think the answer lies in updating the entire thing. Either I have to lessen the load on my cpu by a LOT, or I'll have to upgrade mobo's and cpu's. A simple graphic card splurge would be very easily done, but im not convinced itll be gains worthy of cost.  I run all my monitors in 1920x1080 60hz.  I have been tempted to update to higher res monitors, but a few of my audio plugs dont scale well and Ill lose use of them. I cant say Ive ever been brave enough to buy computer hardware with no warranty on the parts at least. I guess I just want the impossible. A blazing fast computer that works stable and costs next to nothing. As it is, even if my cards COULD handle 8k, my cpu would come to a screeching halt if i tried to render or process it for editing.  From what i can tell, it IS better to buy one amazing card over 2 mediocre. I think most programs dont utilize it fully and the RAW speed is more useful, until you somehow multitask across cards evenly with no bus limits and no doubling of data. I also hear that double cards of course can double driver related issues. Oh well, i think Ill just have to tweak with what i got and wait for the lotto to call me. Fwiw, i do nitoce slight gains if i keep the video editing to two monitors from the same card. It seems that when I use a monitor from each card or 3 monitors for one program, theres a slight degrade in speed. This may be that sharing data is actually slower than dedicated, until a maximum threshold is reached.

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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Personally I think you should ignore going to higher res. You don't appear to have a problem there anyway and Idoubt your monitors are capable of displaying 8K anyway. If they are spending that sort of money on monitors then you should also spend a decent amount on the computer running the system! So how do we improve the speed of your computer for the least money? First need to know exactly what processor you have ie i7-3770K etc. Click on the windows icon and type "about". It should then show exactly what processor you have. The other details it shows might be useful too. Also, do you have hardware encoding switched on in PowerDirector? If you don't then this might provide the speed increase you need.

Probably the easiest way of improving the speed is just getting a new processor - the AMD 3700X has 8 cores, 16 threads and is likely much faster than your current processor as well (cost $270). You'd need a new motherboard as well (cost ~$100). Assuming all your SSD and GPU's will plug straight in then that will save costs. Your DDR3 ram is old news and will have to be replaced with newer DDR4 ram (~$120). Your next problem will be convincing the OS that you've just upgraded your computer so you might need to talk to Microsoft support there.

In the UK, if you're running a business, then you can offset computer costs against your tax. If that's the case in the US then I'd just buy a brand new PC from the ground up (or all the parts).

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Posted (edited)

After a few tweaks, I DID manage to get one of the video cards to peg out at 100% for its decoding. This was causing issues with playback for editing. Unfortunately Im socket to 2011 i think, and am running an i-7-4280k ivy clocked to 4.2ghz quad core(8 virtual). An upgrade is going to require a new motherboard as you mentioned. With a new MObo comes the need for TON of new ram too. I do audio so I use every bit of 16-32gb of ram regularly. I have purchased so many copies of win7 that i can still get 10 without much hassle. I use hardware encoding in PD and have let is run the optimization with different settings. I am get somewhat useable playback now, but its still utilizing just one vid card and maxing it out. I dont NEED 8k at all, except i am assuming ill want more res than i can see, as I'll be cropping down 360 footage that comes in around 5-6k. Having 8k capable may at least allow me to run the damn decoding software to get it into a useable file? I dont know, but ill find out one way or another.

I shopped newegg and splurged on an Nvidia Gtx 1660i. It happens to be on the list of compatible devices for the gopro and PD at least. The real question is.. will it be entirely compatible with my asrock x79 mobo? I am going to slim back to 3 or maybe even 2 monitors and utilize the real estate more efficiently. If the video card winds up not very compatible, I guess I will then take the plunge and build another. At least I invested big on the psu and wont need a new one. Lots of ssd's that can be reused, so thatll help. Still, Im staring down the barrel of expensive, no matter how I look at it. Oh well, it has been a few years and I didnt go uber expensive new even then. Thanks for the replies, Ill keep you posted about the vid card. I give it a 50/50 chance itll do me for a while, vs being the catalyst to rebuild anew.

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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Posted (edited)

It's also worth taking into account why you want to upgrade and whether it's worth it at the moment. An 8K-capable rig will definitely be future-proof, but do you really need it?

If your setup isn't giving you any grief for your usual use (music creation and whatnot), is it worth upgrading just for video creation? How invested are you in it? And what "quality standard" are you setting for yourself? I don't mean to be patronizing, I'm asking myself the same exact questions...

I recently bought a new laptop (I'd rather a desktop PC, but portability is a must for me), it's an MSI P65 with an i7-8750H @ 2.20GHz, 6 cores and 12 threads, 32 Gb of DDR4 and an integrated Intel UHD 630 + an Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070 Max-q with 8 Gb VRAM. As camera gear, I have an Insta360 One X and a GoPro 7.

For now I've been reframing my 360 videos and exporting the "flattened video" as 1080p, using Insta360 Studio, and editing the footage with Adobe Premiere Pro, and the workflow is buttery smooth. Certain tasks are more CPU-demanding, others are more GPU-intensive. And then there's how well each piece of software in the process is able to utilize your discrete graphics card(s).

When playing back the 5.7K, 360 video in InstaStudio, moving the camera around, etc., it's using around 30% CPU, 15-20% integrated CPU and 45-50% of the Nvidia's capacity,  so the good news is, the app is making good use of my Nvidia card. Although that might not apply to GoPro's app.

I have Premiere Pro set to hardware rendering via CUDA, so it utilizes my discrete card, but it does so surprisingly little. When playing back 1080p video that's been color-graded, for instance, it uses 20% CPU, 41% integrated GPU and 7-8% discrete GPU. When rendering, those figures are 30-40% CPU, 95-100% integrated GPU and 10% Nvidia GPU. I imagine each software is different in how it uses the available hardware, and perhaps mine only uses the Nvidia once it's maxxed out the integrated card, or is only using it for specific effects (transitions, sharpening, etc.). But in any case...rendering isn't as much of an issue, as it only increases waiting time (and the chances of frying your rig) :efee612b4b:

When exporting to flat, non-360 video, Insta360 Studio defaults to 1080p--you can change that figure but I don't see much of a point. The total bitrate the camera is yielding is 100-120 Mbps in total (50-60 Mbps per lens), for 360 video. That bitrate is just right (IMO) for flat, 4K footage, so I reckon it would fall terribly short for 360 content exported as flat 4K, so from my standpoint, the increased resolution isn't worth it and I prefer lower-res video (1080p) but with a higher bitrate.

I've played around with the GoPro 7 a little in both 1080p and in 2.7K, but not yet in 4K. I'm not sure how well my rig will handle, but although I'm curious to find out, I've been perfectly happy with the FHD videos from the Insta360, and although I enjoy trying to up the quality of my videos, I don't think I'd be willing to fork out much cash for something I simply do for enjoyment, as I don't aspire to become a Youtube celebrity or compete with EvX in terms of production quality (don't have the right camera gear or know-how for that anyway :whistling:). And even so, look at Marty's footage: a great majority of it is recorded on the Insta 360 One X and uploaded as 1080p, and all of us enjoy his videos.

And then, there's the biggest bottleneck of all: Youtube video compression....

What's the most relevant to for you is video decoding---you need smooth playback in order to reframe and edit. On my setup (hardware and software), these tasks have proven to be very GPU-dependant, and I'm also getting the impression that overall, my software isn't making the best possible use of GPU, so I have a feeling one powerful video card would probably be better utilized than a dual-card setup. Then again, I'm not using 4 monitors... :whistling:

On the other hand, my CPU usage is relative to my (newer) CPU, and it might be a bottleneck for you. Same goes for DDR3 RAM...

If I were in your situation, as @mike_bike_kite suggested, I'd be patient, and play around with your current config to see if you can get it to adjust to your needs. Maybe use only 2 monitors for video editing. Or poke around the forums to see if there's anything you can tweak so PD will better use your resources.

When do you receive your GoPro Max? If you want to see how your PC handles 360, 5.7K decoding while you wait, I can share some raw Insta360 footage with you and you can install Insta360 Studio and see how well it fairs. :)

P.S. I corrected the title of the thread ;)

Edited by travsformation

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Lots of info here. Patience? Wtf is that of which ye speak? My lack of patience is a blessing and a curse.  My internet is very limited, so that is also a bottleneck. Its not really feasible for me to accept download of much size, so any video uploads are usually after 2am and takes a long time. Most of this is for my own enjoyment.  I elected to give a single card a try as whats more fun than buying a video card? Well, that, and its a lot easier to toss a new vid card in to see what happens, than it is to order a box of parts and build another pc. I know it will come down to me building a pc, but i am just hoping a single card may get me by for a couple more years.  The upgrade isnt for video only, as since windows 10, my audio programs are having small issues. It seems the video requirements for my audio programs is even taking a little too much from the system.

The gopro arrived today, its on the charger now. Hopefully my cards around here are fast enough so i wont have to open the one that came with it. It shouldnt take me but a little bit to see how this goes. I hope the video card will help a little, but i also realize its just a drop in the bucket.  Currently I have a hard time editting at all, as the playback during edit is SOOO slow and choppy that I have to guess its okay. Lining up audio to a video track will be almost impossible with my current system limitations.  I tried a few different configs, single monitor, sli and overclocking. I did get my cpu up to 4.2ghz on a stock 3.7ghz chip. It seems a little snappier and can handle prime, but its not going to be what a newer mobo and cpu could do.  The ivy bridge is supposed to handle pci3, but theres only one way to find out. It seems i build a new computer about every 7 years and have to do minor updates to some of the hardware about every 5 years.  This motherboard is about 8 years old now and the processor is far from new. It just REALLY hurts my feelings when I have to accept that even my RAM is outdated. I mean shit, 32gb of high speed ram is NOT cheap and never has been.  Of course next build I'll have to replace my cooler too. I guess I'm just tossing small pieces at an inevitable issue, in HOPES that i can split this pc build up just a little and not have to buy everything at once.  Thank goodness samsung ssd's aret a relic already too, as Ive a stack of those. WHen ssd came down in price, i converted over and benefited greatly.

I have power director and insta 360 to toy with. I surely resent the RENTAL model of adobe, so thats not an option. Thanks for all the suggestions, i really am considering and absorbing what you guys are saying. My intent is to keep me happy and waste my time. I am always my worst critic. At the very least, I will learn from this whether is a success or failure.  My short term goal is to take blistering ride out of my neighborhood and get it filmed in a manner that is not total shit and watchable. It would be nice for people to see me endangering myself with no gear, in HI-Q stabilized format at least. I also have a paramotor to learn to fly by myself. Seeing as its VERY dangerous and Im not always mindfull, i see a great chance for some horrifying and entertaining video. At any rate, its been a while since upgrading my cameras (gopro3 here) and computer. I guess maybe i'm just looking for an excuse to start down the road of updates.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It seems i build a new computer about every 7 years and have to do minor updates to some of the hardware about every 5 years.  This motherboard is about 8 years old now and the processor is far from new. It just REALLY hurts my feelings when I have to accept that even my RAM is outdated. I mean shit, 32gb of high speed ram is NOT cheap and never has been.  Of course next build I'll have to replace my cooler too. I guess I'm just tossing small pieces at an inevitable issue, in HOPES that i can split this pc build up just a little and not have to buy everything at once

I know the feeling all too well....

No matter how future-proof you try to build your rig, with tech advancing as fast as it does...obsolescence ends up showing its ugly face sooner or later. 7 years is a pretty good run actually...

48 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

My short term goal is to take blistering ride out of my neighborhood and get it filmed in a manner that is not total shit and watchable. It would be nice for people to see me endangering myself with no gear, in HI-Q stabilized format at least. I also have a paramotor to learn to fly by myself. Seeing as its VERY dangerous and Im not always mindfull, i see a great chance for some horrifying and entertaining video

:roflmao:

Let me know how it goes with the GoPro. I looked into how the workflow goes with the Max: You need the GoPro Max Exporter to stitch together and export the proprietary .360 videos it creates to mp4 (GoPro Max exporter minimum requirements), but that won't allow you to do any reframing, for that you need The GoPro Player, which unfortunately, is only available for Mac at the moment...

2020-03-18-22-25-55-Mozilla-Firefox.png

(https://gopro.com/help/articles/block/GoPro-Player)

There are workarounds, though (Just don't throw out the box quite yet for in case they prove too tedious). And don't hesitate to ask if you encounter any issues, I might be able to help :)

Edited by travsformation

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Decide on the camera, and then ask real people with that camera for real life experiences editing that footage and what works and doesn't work.

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Posted (edited)

Went for a short ride with the camera. Not a wise idea to take a test camera out when its been a few days on another wheel. I got 4mins of crap footage and copied off the card to one of my ssd's.  I didnt have to open the memory card that came with and didnt open the spare battery, as I know all too well how the 30 day trials can wind up, if you arent careful. Be careful setting the camera down, as lenses are the high spot on front and back. So far I was REALLY shocked at the audio quality. Cant comment on the video as its just a bs screen, but the fact i could even hear myself talk over the wind noise was a surprise.(everyone else will HATE having to hear me ramble)

I also am wondering why my video is so slow. I looked up the specs of my 660Ti cards, and it really isnt too bad. I have the latest drivers and have optimized them as much as possible. ALL cuda cores enabled by global default and for power Director, specifically. I am noticing that my motherboard is kind of on the sketchy list of abilities. Supposedly I can use it for pcie3 x16 with the ivy chipset.  Powerdirector maxes out my video card on the decoding graph in windows performance viewer. No matter what settings sli or not, quad monitors or single, the program seems to use just one of the two video cards(primarily). Even when pegged at 100% decode and video stuttering, I dont see the second card doing much. I think either PD or Nvid just doesnt utilize it like I hoped. I did purchase the cards at a low price many years ago, when 4 monitors was my only requirement.  I really hope i dont need a new mobo and all the others, but it is possible. The card I have otw, will either help a little, or provoke me to build in the end. Whats got me worried, the ivy chipset i-7 is a little dated. If it turns out the cpu is the BIG issue, its not gna be a simple drop/swap. Im reading that anything prior to Kaby is too old. FUnny how expensive this cpu was when i got it, and now its $100 all day long.

As suspected, I cant export thru goproMax at higher than 4k, unless using cineform. Im exporting in 4k hevc atm(1 vid card at 30%, cpu at 32%). Seems like its about 3mins of export for every minute of video. I'll know shortly, how bad it is to try and edit. I forgot to record in 'flat' vs 'gopro color' but hopefully saturation can be adjusted okay.

 

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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