EcoDrift interviews Gotway, King Song, Inmotion

[meepmeepmayer]

One more great blog article by @EcoDrift. They interviewed GW, KS, IM.

Monowheel manufacturers answer your questions (Russian original)

Some things are lost in translation, but it's interesting nonetheless. Maybe a native Russian speaker can help clear up some things.

Some points (there's more, so just check the article out):

Gotway:

• hired a "quality engineer" 2 months ago, results should be visible to sellers and riders
• 126V "too dangerous and not advisable" now, but possibly in the future
• no plans for 2020 except model updates (I might be understanding it wrong, maybe it's just referring to the msuper?)
• no 3 inch wide tire 14 incher/MCM6 in the works, because that would require an expensive new shell design

King Song:

• suspension is the next goal, also hey have a better intelligent BMS
• looks like their next wheel might be a new 18 incher?
• no plans for speeds >50kph/31mph

Inmotion:

• new wheels will be IP67 water-protected (IP55 now)

Edited March 13, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[Marty Backe]

13 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

One more great blog article by @EcoDrift. They interviewed GW, KS, IM.

Monowheel manufacturers answer your questions (Russian original)

Some things are lost in translation, but it's interesting nonetheless. Maybe a native Russian speaker can help clear up some things.

Some points (there's more, so just check the article out):

Gotway:

• hired a "quality engineer" 2 months ago, results should be visible to sellers and riders
• 126V "too dangerous and not advisable" now, but possibly in the future
• no plans for 2020 except model updates (I might be understanding it wrong, maybe it's just referring to the msuper?)
• no 3 inch wide tire 14 incher/MCM6 in the works, because that would require an expensive new shell design

King Song:

• suspension is the next goal, also hey have a better intelligent BMS
• looks like their next wheel might be a new 18 incher?
• no plans for speeds >50kph/31mph

Inmotion:

• new wheels will be IP67 water-protected (IP55 now)

Hard to believe Gotway won't release a new wheel in all off 2020. So much for the mini-Monster rumor.

Thanks for the link 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Marty Backe

[Marty Backe]

I advise everyone to read the article and not just Meep's summary - I think he missed some good stuff. I found it interesting that from Gotway's perspective, the market is getting smaller  which is not a good thing.

It sure is growing in the United States, but in total units produced, Gotway must be declining. Hmmm, maybe if they increased the quality of their product.

But this was just one interesting bit. Lots of others in the original article.

[FreeRide]

Growing scooter and e-bike markets is hurting EUCs I would guess. 

[leadbread]

Good to see that at least one company is prioritizing weatherproofing. I ride my E+ in rain or snow when necessary, so it's encouraging to see the promise of newer wheels that I wouldn't worry about taking out in subpar conditions.

Edited March 14, 2020 by leadbread

[Slargo83]

Hopefully the new MSP will reflect some of the promised quality improvements and not have firmware issues like some of their recent releases.

[UniVehje]

The most interesting part was KingSong developing a new 18” model with suspension and Gotway seeing the market getting smaller. 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

The most interesting part was KingSong developing a new 18” model with suspension and Gotway seeing the market getting smaller. 

I have a hard time seeing the market getting smaller, but maybe there is some kind of saturation reached. And the lack of a competitive enough cheaper entry model is a big problem, I guess.

The King Song 18 incher indications are the juiciest bit for me. There seems to be something definitive going on.

[Gaz Bon]

Gotway - To provide the market with more interesting off-road wheels.

This what I have been waiting to hear lets see what they can deliver in 2021 

 

 

[Asphalt]

Gotway’s statement on the shrinking EUC market would appear to be supported by Ninebot’s exit and all the major remaining manufacturers diversifying into eScooters, esk8 and eBikes.

I wonder how much of this is due to the shared eScooter backlash affecting public opinion on micro mobility and laws banning PEVs in some countries?

It comes down to us, EUC enthusiasts, to be advocates, evangelists and positive role models for the general public because  the EUC manufacturers certainly don’t have the marketing departments required to grow the market.

If we want better wheels, we need a growing market.

There are many ways to encourage this:

1. We can try Marty’s approach by trying to single-handedly prop up the EUC industry by purchasing every wheel available.

2. We can try Marty’s approach by making great social media content showing the fun aspects of EUC in a responsible way.

3. We can go after the “cool” factor by showing extreme possibilities of EUC for both tricks and high-stakes performance  riding.

4. We can try to introduce EUC to a high-profile celebrity in hopes of them promoting it e.g. Casey Neistat and Boosted Board.

5. We can support community members on their way to becoming the next Casey Neistat.

6. We can take the time to have positive interactions with the public when stopped and asked for the thousandth time about that thing we’re riding, how fast it goes, how much it costs, and if you get a good core workout.

It worries me that the EUC market is shrinking, because it seems so counter-intuitive. With all the issues the world is facing with climate change, urban congestion, and social distancing; the EUC checks many boxes.

We need to show the world that overcoming the fear of learning how to ride and looking socially unusual is worth the many benefits of EUC. Unfortunately there are many (like my wife) for whom the barrier-to-entry is too high for factors like “it’s not the right colour” 

[leadbread]

7 hours ago, Asphalt said:

6. We can take the time to have positive interactions with the public when stopped and asked for the thousandth time about that thing we’re riding, how fast it goes, how much it costs, and if you get a good core workout.

I try my best... sometimes... but man, it's really hard when people are literally chasing me down in the supermarket or shouting at me at the park to dismount so I can answer such brilliant questions as "what IS that thing????" and "is that hard to ride????". When I do enter a dialog about my wheel (and to respond to your third point), I generally focus on the practicality aspects of it - how it fits in my trunk, how I can just wheel it around if I'm not riding it, how nimble it is compared to a scooter, how I frequently use it as last-mile transportation - and underplay aspects about safety or fun, since I'd personally like to see more people using wheels as a legitimate transportation alternative.

Edited March 14, 2020 by leadbread

[FreeRide]

18 hours ago, Slargo83 said:

Hopefully the new MSP will reflect some of the promised quality improvements and not have firmware issues like some of their recent releases.

Doubtful really, it's just a crap shoot still.  Many of their quality issues have nothing to do with the responsibilities of a quality engineer, and will they be allowed to even do their job.  We'll have to wait and see.  They could start with updatable firmware, and they could have done that years ago.

[FreeRide]

8 hours ago, Gaz Bon said:

Gotway - To provide the market with more interesting off-road wheels.

This what I have been waiting to hear lets see what they can deliver in 2021 

 

 

Don't get your hopes up, that could mean diversifying into scooters.  Their innovation has been largely limited to speed and battery capacity in the past.  They have let other blaze the new trails, but sometimes successfully borrowed the ideas after the others took the first hit. 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 minute ago, FreeRide said:

Their innovation has been largely limited to speed and battery capacity in the past.

That's not true. They're the only ones with 100V wheels and 126V research, extra small (mten3) and big (Monster) wheels, their new motor design is highly creative and specialized, they had a ton of board revisions and improvements, firmware revisions, wheel revisions (there are more fundamenally different versions of the Nikola alone than Inmotion has models overall, for example) and they're still the most willing to experiment and fast-iterating of the manufacturers. Gotway are doing a lot of different stuff (maybe not the stuff we want, like build quality and ergonomics). If they are not innovative, who is?

[Seba]

5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

their new motor design is highly creative and specialized

What is "highly creative and specialized" in motors used by Gotway?

[meepmeepmayer]

18 minutes ago, Seba said:

What is "highly creative and specialized" in motors used by Gotway?

They used different widths for magnets vs. coils to get the desired characteristics - more torque but not too much speed loss (with even more torque). The Ecodrift guys seemed quite impressed with this idea (MSP disassembly article). Of course it's no huge innovation, but for the level the manufacturers are acting on, this is pretty clever and thrifty.

Gotway seem to be doing and trying a lot of these technical improvements all the time.

Edited March 14, 2020 by meepmeepmayer
quote added

[bigwave]

I can understand Gotway's statement of a "shrinking" market for EUC. In this age of instant gratification, the EUC is pretty much last on the list of user friendliness . I'd rank them ....

1 E bike , if you can ride a bike and almost everyone can, then this is easy peasy.

2 Scooter, a skate stance with a handle bar. Very user friendly right off the bat!

3 E Skateboard, A skate /snowboard background is an asset. Requires a learning curve ,balance, familiarity with the controller. 

4 Onewheel, Skate /snowboard background again is an asset. Short learning curve for the basics and fairly comfortable in about 30min depending on the riders skill set.

5 EUC, Steepest learning curve hands down. Learning time is very dependent on the ability of the rider to assimilate instruction and replicated it on the wheel. For some ,a very short time, others ,more of a challenge. 

The other thing that affects EUC is awareness . Before I stumbled across a YT video of a EUC (while watching Onewheel Pint video's) I had never even heard of them. I heard of the first 4 PEV'S on my list years ago. I would question what percentage of the population even know what a EUC is. Everyone I speak to about it, don't even know what i'm talking about until I show them a video. So education would go a long way to increase sales to NEW people getting into the sport. Affordable, good quality ,safe, entry level wheels to attracted NEW riders. Formal training from the manufactures and retailers to attract NEW riders. 

I as you can see, I'm focusing on the NEW rider theme. The EUC industry needs NEW riders to grow. An industry which made a huge mistake in the 80's and 90's was the windsurfing industry. It exploded in the early 80's only to focus on high performance  ,short high performance boards ,sails etc. Magazines focus on exotic windy, big wave locations. What this lead to was an industry who catered to the advanced rider , alienating the beginner. Not enough beginners entered the sport so manufactures/retailers had to rely on existing customers to sell new products to. It is not sustainable. 

Its great that Gotway is producing the fastest wheels , super high end blah blah blah....but is that what the 135 pound newbie is looking for ? 

 

 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

Good to see the three are working on suspension, let's see who wins the race! 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

11 hours ago, bigwave said:

but is that what the 135 pound newbie is looking for ? 

At the moment the beginners looking at buying a cheap first electric unicycle are looking at the Ninebot One A1, followed by the Inmotion V5/F. 

Some may even be looking at "overpriced" old 14in 350w models with 12km/h tilt back speed which have been on storage for years and have a dead battery (creating disappointment when it doesn't work on arrival). 

If those 14in 350w wheels could be made so cheaply 6 years ago, I wonder why isn't there better 400-600$ (retail price) options now. As that is the most popular price range for electric scooters, I've heard of people that were thinking to buy an electric scooter and who would also consider an electric unicycle if it was a better option, but not for a higher price. 

[Hatchet]

We need a US manufacturer.

[leadbread]

^ Thank you for your interest in American manufacturing. Is a Canadian brand out of the question?

[Slargo83]

On 3/14/2020 at 3:52 PM, FreeRide said:

Doubtful really, it's just a crap shoot still.  Many of their quality issues have nothing to do with the responsibilities of a quality engineer, and will they be allowed to even do their job.  We'll have to wait and see.  They could start with updatable firmware, and they could have done that years ago.

I agree that the firmware should be undateable. With $2K+ price tags you'd think it'd be a given. I'll keep my fingers crossed that my MSP that's coming will have good firmware installed off the bat 

[Boogieman]

"Do you plan to improve the quality of the products as a whole (production stability, control of results). Subjectively, without further ado.?

- Yes, we are planning"

 

Enough planning Gotway, start DOING 

[Boogieman]

On 3/15/2020 at 3:09 AM, bigwave said:

A. I can understand Gotway's statement of a "shrinking" market for EUC. 

1 E bike , if you can ride a bike and almost everyone can, then this is easy peasy.

2 Scooter, a skate stance with a handle bar. Very user friendly right off the bat!

3 E Skateboard, A skate /snowboard background is an asset. Requires a learning curve ,balance, familiarity with the controller. 

4 Onewheel, Skate /snowboard background again is an asset. Short learning curve for the basics and fairly comfortable in about 30min depending on the riders skill set.

5 EUC, Steepest learning curve hands down. Learning time is very dependent on the ability of the rider to assimilate instruction and replicated it on the wheel. For some ,a very short time, others ,more of a challenge. 

6. The other thing that affects EUC is awareness .

7. So education would go a long way to increase sales to NEW people getting into the sport. Affordable, good quality ,safe, entry level wheels to attracted NEW riders. Formal training from the manufactures and retailers to attract NEW riders. 

8. Its great that Gotway is producing the fastest wheels , super high end blah blah blah....but is that what the 135 pound newbie is looking for ? 

A. Due to new regulations on speed and motors, due to scooter companies letting any brat go crash them and die or injurer themselves or others. 1case and the media say DANGEROUS (and government are so easy to fool), even though more people die in car or bike accidents. Governments are afraid / careful to get shit from media here. And media here is a damn communist sect allmost :-S

1 & 2 are easy yes. Buy also easy to steal as youre not allowed to bring them with you for example into malls at least here in Sweden i can roll with my EUC when i go shopping and use it as support for my basket to avoid "hesvy lifting" :-)

3&4. Skate is for skater community, they are kindof their own group lile they allways have

5. EUC takes longer to learn indeed, but it also means you get more time before headimg into traffic. And most people have "respect" for the wheel after learning (at least in the beginning when you are still a n00b. That in itself makes it safer.

6.People get aware by us riders. Many people wanna ask what it is when we stop, at least here in Sweden. Just dont go saying stupid shit like its super fast snd i can race cars, be civiliced snd promote it as a nimble and safe(r than you think) transport without need to park thr car in the city, but still faster than a std bike. Like a racing bike without the hassle, plus you can fit it in any cars trunk and use it while on trips without bike racks and shit

7. As they get more popular i am sure"euc schools" will sppear just like when you take a car license. If theres money to make, people jump on. But for that more people needs to wanna get a wheel, so q bit hard to know how to start the loop

8. One word YES.

No meaning to buy a slow wheel just to either get bored and never upgrade or get a taste and need to upgrade after 1month. The bigger wheel are more expensive but they last a long time. Im on my 3rd (or 4th?) Year on my first wheel, an ordinary (today, back then king) 2kw/1000wh gotway tesla. 2021 i plan to uograde as it sounds like this will be a big year when it comes to safety, suspension and so on. Till then mods on the tesla for ground clearance

135 pound is perfect, means higher top speed and less risk of cutouts. I wish i was a little bit shorter and lighter than 97kg 192cm right now

Edited March 21, 2020 by Boogieman