Popular Post quiksilver884 Posted February 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Good morning guys/gals, I’m brand new to the whole EUC scene. 2 months ago I literally had no idea these things even existed, visited NYC with my wife and saw one of you bozos zoom by in traffic on one and it basically blew my mind. I looked at them online and saw the premium ones and knew there was no way I was convincing her to let me spend 2 Grand on a new toy, but came across the ninebot one E+ on a site called until gone refurbed for $300 and it was on. I've grown up surfing and skating, I'm 35, 225 lbs(not the fighting shape I was in 15 years ago) and knew I was pushing the limits from the specs but figured for just a fun toy I'd ride with my kids on their bikes I should probably be ok. Well... Now that I have the stupid thing I'm obsessed (thanks NYC guy!😄). Watching YouTube videos everyday and just started riding it to work this week. My "commute" is basically nothing, 1.7 miles from my house. I rode it Wednesday and had no issues with it being 70ish degrees F outside. "No issues" other than pushing it way too hard down a sidewalk ramp to get out of a cars way and then counter pulling back way too hard and making the thing shoot out, bust my butt and knock the wind out of myself lol. But got my breath and hopped back on, brushed off the embarrassment and rode home. I skipped yesterday bc of rain, but took it back out this morning to work, 43 degrees and and wet and had no issues, but when I looked at my ride on darkness bot the wheel looked pretty warm. I've linked my ride log below. https://imgur.com/a/Ph9HJ4Y I realistically have no idea what to expect so this may not be problematic at all, but just wanted to check in and get some thoughts from you guys. I'm more worried about it being that warm with it being so cold out and knowing it'll be in the 80s and 90s soon. This was supposed to be just a fun toy but has become a stupid gateway drug and I'm hoping to upgrade in the next few months to something that can handle my size a little better like an msx or 18xl(I like pretty much everything better about the XL, but keep slightly getting pulled back to the msx for that top speed). But first I need to justify to my wife that I'm actually gonna use this thing and that it's More than just a bike for the neighborhood lol. At the same time I don't want to put myself in danger of cutoffs and such on the e+ over the next few months bc of heart issues. I know my range and such is limited on the e+, but it seems like a great learning wheel. I definitely have a need for speed from the bigger wheels, but I'm ok learning on the e+ as I've already had some solid wipeouts and my wrist is finally not sore for the first time in a month (I've gotten a helmet and wrist guards since, thankfully or I would've jacked up my wrist again when I wiped out on Wednesday's commute). Sorry for the short story extremely long version, but thanks for putting this community together and I look forward to becoming part of it! Edited February 21, 2020 by travsformation Fixed broken link :) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Hi and welcome! Don't worry, 102º F is far from warm for an EUC; if you're getting that kind of temperature with ambient temps. of 70º F and pushing it hard, that's actually a very cool-running wheel, so nothing to worry about. If it were 102º Celsius, on the other hand, that would be another story altogether involving a fire extinguisher and headlines in the local news My temperature alarm on the 18XL is set to 65º C / 149º F, and I've only hit it a couple of times, riding at 3 PM in mid-August BTW, KS18XL....excellent choice! I'd say go for it but a lot of NYC riders prefers Gotways because of the top speed...But you can't go wrong with either one! Edited February 21, 2020 by travsformation 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver884 Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 Awesome thanks so much for the quick response travsformation (and fixing my link). I'm glad to hear that's a good temp. I'm actually in Jacksonville Florida so I won't be riding in NYC, but in general like the idea of the speed. From everything I see you can't go wrong on either of those wheels. Seems like the 18xl is a little more comfortable while the msx is a little faster while both seem to be rock solid on reliability (based on my zero experience on either haha). Although I love the idea of the higher msx speed, I still lean a little towards the 18xl to protect myself from being stupid as much as anything lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyz89 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 You have to choose between 'performance' and 'convenience'. On Ks18xl handle and mudguard are just awesome. On the other hand 100v MSX top speed and acceleration are just mind blowning. I have 18xl and I'm little dissapointed with only about 45kmh real top speed. Now i look for second wheel and 100v Monster seems to be the way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver884 Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 Dang Johny why do you have to tempt me haha. I know the top overall speed on the msx is better, but is the acceleration difference that noticeable? I thought the biggest thing on the 18xl was basically a software restriction and that the power wasn't all too different at least on the 84v model. I'm sure you do gain some though on the 100v model. Is the maneuverability between the 2.5-3" wheel real noticeable? The trolley handle(although I don't see using this too much), larger/flatter pedals and mudguard seem undeniably better on the XL. I haven't done much offroading at this point and what I've tried seems like I don't have the wheel capable for my size so I don't have much to go off there for wheel width, although it seems like both the msx and xl seem to do great on and offroad so I wouldn't be limited on anything except the top speed. On the xl you find yourself cruising at max speed regularly wanting more? Or would just be nice to have it for those times that you're really just wanting to hammer it down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyz89 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Im not sure if 84v is so different, especially now with 2.00 FW in Kingsong but 100v is noticable faster. 3'' tire also makes big difference in stability when cruising at high speed. For me, the main problem is when i go 40-45kmh and want do go faster its very easy to be titled back at 50. But real speed is only 45. On 100v MSX there is no problem driving 50kmh constantly. I'm just a speed junkie, but I didnt know that when I was choosing between these two wheels. Trolley handle on KS18XL was main reason i chose it. Edited February 21, 2020 by johnyz89 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Looks like you need a 100V MSX Both wheels are great, but if you already now expect the 18XL to be too slow... Trust your instinct, whichever wheel it leads you to. And don't forget enough protective gear to go along with such a wheel (full face helmet, wrist guards, knee pads, motorcycle jacket, etc.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post quiksilver884 Posted February 21, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Good info thanks guys. I don't already foresee the 18xl being too slow, just the e+ is way too slow, although still a blast and big head turner as it's like an alien in my neigborhood. But knowing that I'm a speed junky I'll have to think about it. I know I'll like the speed, I just can't decide if I should limit myself knowing I'll use it . I'll definitely be upgrading my safety gear with a faster wheel. I already almost didn't wear my new wrist guards because I thought I looked dumb in them, and eventually decided screw it if I'm having fun I don't care what I look like. Only to fall hard on my butt and catch myself with my hands and wrists as I fell back. I believe I would've hurt my palms and wrists badly(especially after just coming off the mend) so I immediately learned not to regret wearing them lol. I figured I'll be getting the bike jacket and helmet, knee/shin guards to go with the speed. I'm too old to be hurting myself with stupidity haha Edited February 22, 2020 by quiksilver884 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted February 22, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2020 First, all wheels will gently kick you off the wheel before they "overheat". So you don't have to worry about damaging anything. Typically, most wheels will continue operating just fine at an internal temperature of 75-degrees Celsius (166-degrees Fahrenheit). So no worries there. Hopefully you'll be able to save up your nickles and get a performance wheel. Even if you don't ride like the madmen of NYC, a performance wheel will offer you huge margins of safety, particularly important for someone of your stature. Welcome to the club 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver884 Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 Awesome thanks for the info Marty and happy to be here! These darn things are an addiction, can't get enough of them! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) I suspect that an msx would be safer than an 18xl at the same speed. You get a slightly larger margin with the msx. Maybe 5-10km/h usable speed advantage. Also the wider tire would be great for your weight. You don't want to puncture the 18xl 2.5in tire going over a curb/train track. However the msx is more fragile so you can't crash it and expect it to work, or maybe go on heavy rain rides and so on without waterproofing it ane checking for cracks/damage. Being a "speed freak" at 225lbs is something you're going to have to contain. You will overpower the wheel before most of other riders so you need to have a greater power margin to stay safe and avoid cutouts or burnt circuits. If your wheel can do 70kph during a lift test then ride max 45kph and you will be safe. As the wheel speed gets higher it loses torque which it needs to stay balanced under you. Edited February 25, 2020 by alcatraz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver884 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 Good info Alcatraz, I've always enjoyed the speed but it's always been on 2+ wheels so I believe it would be a little more contained on one wheel. I've never gone over like 14-15 on one of these things so I know I need more than that, but I don't know that I need the upper 30's you can get from the 100v msx. Its definitely an advantage to have that extra umph if you need to get around something but that's really the only average I see on the msx. I've got a physically demanding career and I can't really risk being overly dumb so the need for speed is a lot tamer than it was 15 years ago. From what I've seen at Max speed on the 18xl it doesn't seem to be from a lack of power more of a software controlled safety feature which would also prevent me from hopefully pushing it too hard up there. It's a tough choice, pretty much any time I watch anything on either wheel it makes me want that one lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver884 Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 And now I'm seeing the videos on the MSP, even another to contemplate lol. A little stronger motor to carry my fat butt, a touch more speed than the 18xl but not too much, a better headlight which was a big selling point as I ride to work in the dark every morning. Looks like the biggest thing on the 18xl is the pedal comfort. I love the idea of the 10" pedals on the KS but have never ridden anything other than the e+ pedals which I think kind of suck based on no other experience lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 On 2/21/2020 at 9:49 PM, quiksilver884 said: is the acceleration difference that noticeable? The answer to this is not as clear cut as you’d probably hope: Since the EUC is a self balancing vehicle constantly trying to neutralize your forward lean, it either accelerates enough or not enough. The amount of acceleration is 100% up to the rider. But, there is a big difference in how the acceleration feels. If it feels like the wheel is nearing it’s limits, you won’t accelerate any faster. Gotways in general feel like they aren’t even really working, so it’s easier to trust them and push them to accelerate faster. I think that next to speed, this is the second most important factor that make seasoned riders turn to a Gotway. Still, the 84V MSX does seem to have slightly more pure power than 18XL, even when disregarding the feel factor. But due to the feel factor I always ride much softer when I’m on an 18XL. I don’t own the Nikola either, but the solid pedal modes immediately told me that it’s OK to push a lot more. But do understand that we are talking about power levels either 10 or 11 light years above your E+! So whichever modern wheel you’ll get, will probably keep you grinning for a year or two before you start wanting to replace your wheel. Wanting another wheel as well is a different story though... On 2/21/2020 at 9:49 PM, quiksilver884 said: I thought the biggest thing on the 18xl was basically a software restriction The most important aspect to realize about GW wheels, is that all other wheels have a fixed factory set top speed limit, and they will tilt you back if you try to go faster. GW has a tilt-back option as well (up to 49km/h), but it can be turned off. If you turn it off, nothing prevents you from riding past the actual top speed, which results in an unavoidable top speed crash. If you want to keep this safety function enabled, GW wheels are not faster than other 50km/h wheels. (KS speed inflation excluded though.) But I see the top speed as an indication of safety buffer of power. To be realistic (and disregarding NYC riders), 30mph is a very fast speed, and having the balls to push through the wind resistance alone is not something that most of us are equipped with. I am one of the fastest and most aggressive riders I’ve met, and I practically never go past 30mph. On 2/21/2020 at 9:49 PM, quiksilver884 said: Is the maneuverability between the 2.5-3" wheel real noticeable? Definitely. A 3” tire has a much smaller turn radius, and more stability at all speeds. Quoting Marty: ”Sub 3-inch wheels are dead to me!” On 2/21/2020 at 9:49 PM, quiksilver884 said: I haven't done much offroading at this point and what I've tried seems like I don't have the wheel capable for my size You are absolutely correct. Not much point (or joy) off-roading with an E+. Try with an MSX or MSP and a completely new world opens up, again! Speeding with an MSX on forest paths with only low roots and rocks is an experience like nothing else! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyz89 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Get MSX - You won't regret that. If You don't care about trolley handle or speakers there is nothing else to care about. Pedals are comfortable on both wheels - you will get used to whatever you choose. 3 inch tire is what makes big difference. And about the power - You dont have to go more than 40kmh to feel and use MSX power - its always safer to have more powerful wheel especially when it comes to braking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 1 hour ago, johnyz89 said: Get MSX - You won't regret that. If You don't care about trolley handle or speakers there is nothing else to care about. Pedals are comfortable on both wheels - you will get used to whatever you choose. 3 inch tire is what makes big difference. And about the power - You dont have to go more than 40kmh to feel and use MSX power - its always safer to have more powerful wheel especially when it comes to braking. Seeing Marty's latest stress test on overheat hill, I reckon I'd probably go for the MSP. Speaking of that, @Marty Backe, when are your going to get a sign made to stick on a post at the bottom of the now world-famous Overheat Hill? 😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver884 Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) I was just about set on the 18xl until I saw the MSP haha. Thanks for the reply @mrelwood. I don't realistically see myself pushing over 30(often at least) so I don't think that is an issue for me. I do agree that I'll love either one. One thing that's in my brain is that the 18xl seems more practical, but I feel like I'd want the MSP if I had the 18xl. But if I have the MSP I wouldn't see myself longing for the 18xl. I'd get a couple more top end mph's and the MSP does have a few nice quality of life improvements, most noticeably for me the headlight for early morning commuting. I'm sure the pedals will be a big improvement over the e+ and the bigger tire stability seems like a good option for me based on what you guys say. Edited February 27, 2020 by quiksilver884 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 1 hour ago, quiksilver884 said: One thing that's in my brain is that the 18xl seems more practical, but I feel like I'd want the MSP if I had the 18xl. But if I have the MSP I wouldn't see myself longing for the 18xl. Congrats on arriving at a decision then! Seriously, if that's how you feel already, don't let anyone talk you out of it! Nothing but regrets would follow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver884 Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 Now I just have to save money and convince my wife. Very easy right 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Or score a 2nd hand msx and save a few bucks. In some aspects the msx is better than the msp I hear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver884 Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 I'll definitely be keeping my eyes open, I'm sure some people will be upgrading and not need their old ones. @Marty Backe's newest videos pretty much confirmed everything I thought about the p lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 9 hours ago, alcatraz said: In some aspects the msx is better than the msp I hear. The MSP pretty much replaces the 84V MSX. About the same topspeed, but more power/torque/oomph. The 100V is still faster. I wouldn't be surprised if they released an MSX upgrade soon with the new board, lights etc. of the MSP. But any MSX is still a great and proven wheel and they can be had for good prices, especially used. Some people were selling them for like $1200. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 I forgot if it was a test between the 100V or the 84V MSX and the MSP. Anyway in the test on youtube the msx accelerated faster. Just reporting what they said. I haven't tested anything myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver884 Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 10-4. I won't have anything to compare it to except the e+ so I'm sure any top end wheel will blow my mind lol. I like the idea of having powerful capabilities even though I'd realistically never probably use the full extent. And without having driven all alternative performance wheel I'll be ignorant as to if it's slightly better or worse in pretty much any category other than what you guys say 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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