Paragliders, paramotors, parachutes..anyone?

[.....]

Ive been on a tangent of trying new things lately. Soon after getting my EUC, i decided it was time to try and fly. Ive been skydiving a couple times and I am pretty scared of heights. I also get pretty sick in those tin can airplanes. I kept thinking on my first skydive experience  "you guys are fu**ing stupid, we shouldnt be doing this". I would have chickened out, but the prospect of staying in that plane until it landed, seemed worse than just jumping out. Freefall is so much fun, floating with a chute... not so much. Anyhow, these fears and issues helped me decide to buy a paramotor. Yup, I see fear as a challenge and I am all about doing things that the govt doesnt need to know about. No license, no insurance, no registration, NO PROBLEM! So, I have this lawnmower on a lawnchair hanging in my basement, and a huge plastic tarp thats supposed to make me feel good about it. It has been too cold and wet to even open the wing and inspect it, but the lawnmower/chair combo seems to work. VERY scary to have a prop on your back and a 2 cycle engine screaming in your face. Anyhow, I am really looking forward to seeing if i can fly, even more importantly, LAND (at a slow rate of descent). I informed the wife that she needs to buy life insurance on me before spring, as I fear the paramotoring hobby has a VERY steep learning curve. Anyone else around here spend their time flying these insane machines? I have a paraglide harness for practicing, so Im gna put that in the same category.  Something seems very wrong about jumping off the side of a mountain with a sheet above you, so it really seems something i should do. Gotta do these things before I gain sanity, get too old, or the laws take it away from me.

[Marco Stahlmann]

I love paragliding! Gliding noiselessly through the sky with the wing rustling quietly above you and the sun in your face is quite calming. I did most of the flying in the french Alps, so you can add a spectacular scenery to that experience. And you are not jumping of a mountain, just running down a somewhat steep slope before lift off. Having a loud motor strapped to your back doesn't sound to safe and comfortable and takes away lot of the calming experience. But you don't have to hike up a mountain, so that is maybe a plus.

Just got my private pilot licence last year, so am now flying more in these tin cans and enjoying every moment of it! Total different experience though, not as relaxing as silently gliding around and everything happens much faster. FLying on a beautiful day in the Pacific North West is something to really enjoy. If you have all the Volcanoes from Mt. Rainier down to Mt. Jefferson in sight is quite unique!

[.....]

I plan on staying over the appalachians quite a bit. I have a hike and fly harness and the wing is one of those time proven gin Atlas. Hiking UP a mountain doesnt sound like much fun to me. Once you run off a hill and glide out, do you make it back to the same spot, or do you always have to have two cars? The motor should enable me to fly from open areas and not have to worry about chasing thermals all day. I'd imagine a good set of earbuds inside of some ear protection, would fill me with some rock music and drown out the engine. I can always climb to 10k' and shut it off... they do glide.  I studied for flight school a long time ago, and quickly realized that its a license i dont want on the record books.  Im not intending this to be a calming experience, rather an adrenaline fueled scary as hell jaunt of insanity. I plan on spending time at the beach, as I hear its a little easier to learn and not as many trees to fight with. Calming for me is a stiff drink on solid ground, watching the tide roll in. Did i mention im scared of heights? This should be so much fun!!

[Marco Stahlmann]

That's a nice wing! Probably not in my weight class. I was already at the upper weight limit for a regular wing or was looking into tandem wings with my 115kg + gear. Having a motor added to that will definitely be a huge tandem wing for me :-) Hiking with that gear is not great but doable. Most of the time we were flying in a group and had two vans since most of the time the landing area is down in the valley somewhere and top landings are quite sketchy most of the time.

Starting with a motor wherever you find a nice field is really tempting, but chasing thermals is also part of the fun. I've seen some cool youtube videos with powered paragliders, so have lots of fun! Don't let the adrenaline rush mess up your good reasoning! A friend was so eager to find the next thermal that he ended up hanging in the trees. Which was quite a bummer for everyone, since mountain rescue had to come in with a helicopter to get him out, which shut the whole area down from paragliding. No major injuries though, besides some cut lines and some small wholes in the wing!

[.....]

Im thinking that my local terrain is a little bit wonky for thermalling, but if its not... I definitely will use the wing for both. The Gin Atlas is a paraglider wing. Paramotors only gained popularity recently, so most of them are using wings designed for gliding, they just load them down at the top range. Im a measly 125 lbs and my paramotor is 65lbs. Combined, we are still under the typical fat american weight class. The Atlas was the best selling paraglide wing for a decade in Europe or something. Don't quote me on that. Since I plan on lifting off at 3000' regularly and live in the mountains, I was informed that I'd need a little bit larger motor and to not overload it much as takeoff could be a bear. Most paramotors use wings so that they are near the top or just over cert weight. Something about loading the wing heavily makes it less likely to collapse? I dunno much but what Ive heard. I do know that IF i try to glide with this wing alone, I am well UNDER its load rating. The details of how it reacts when loaded properly in a paramotor and unloaded in a flight harness, will probably come VERY clear to me, very quickly. Either way, I hope to have a camera rolling, as disaster is fairly likely and always fun to watch.  Makes me sad to hear about torn wings. This one used, cost more than my 18L and my car!  Cmon warm weather!!

Edited May 26, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Planemo]

Always wanted to paramotor. Awesome things, and the cheapest way to get aloft under power. Amazing that they are so lightly regulated considering the issues we have with legalizing EUC's! Long may it last for the pilots, they have it good at the moment

My bro has a PPL and used to fly gyrocopters. Now they really are mad!

Please do get us some vids when you are up in the sky

 

[Marco Stahlmann]

Thanks for putting me in the typical  fat weight class with my 245 lbs. Good for me, that I'm 6'9" and the weight is distributed fairly 

The wing should be optimal for your intended use with the motor. You shouldn't use it without the motor though unless you take 50 lbs of rocks or water along. If you fly the wing under its load limit it might get some better performance in glide, but also will be way more volatile to fold up if you hit a thermal or a sideways gust. It is always better to fly a wing on its upper limit or a little above to make it more stable and easier to handle. This is a class B wing and that is a real intermediate wing design, so they have good performance but also have a good amount of built in security, i.e. if the wing folds up in flight it will unfold itself rapidly most of the time on its own or with little input. If its flown at its lower limit it will handle more like an expert wing and you will have to do lots of work to unfold the wing after it folds.

You should probably look a little into aviation weather theory! If you plan to fly in mountainous terrain there are two things to consider:

1. Density altitude: if you want to take off on a nice warm day at 3000MSL your actual density altitude may be well over 4000', since warm air is less dense than cold air. And the higher your density altitude, the lower your motors performance.

2. Wind turbulance: be aware of wind rotors on the leeward side of mountains and ridges. You might have great updrafts on the upwind side of the mountain but as soon as you cross the hilltop and get to the downwind side there will be bad downdrafts, that are even dangerous for planes.

Have save flights and lots of fun! Share some video!

[.....]

Great advice and thanks!  In evenly distributed like gumby. The man who sold me the wing, also mentioned I would need to put on 50lbs of water ballast or something of that sort, when I asked if i could glide it engine free. Honestly, I have little intent on motor free, but i got a harness to practice kiting, that could double as a glide. I figured it would be safer that way, should my feather ass get caught up in a serious draft that took me off the ground.  Its no small feat to hoist that 65lb motor rig on my back. I have  a pretty good idea that my little ankles are going to like this idea less than the faa does.

Edited February 24, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[erk1024]

I flew paragliders for a few years, and I think a paramotor is definitely the safer option. The reason is that you can go out on a beautiful windless day and take off from a flat field or beach and have a great time.

The problem with unpowered flight is that you are always at the top of a mountain or flying off a ridge to get ridge lift. You are also flying in wind, and wind can put you in danger in a hurry. We had a ridge area we would fly. In order to get enough ridge lift, the wind would have to be above 14 mph. But considering the slow speed of a paraglider, if the wind was too strong, let's say above 28mph, then you were getting blown backwards. That's a narrow band of speed to try to find, and so many days were spent waiting for the wind to be right. Anyway, at this place, there was a peninsula about a mile away. If the wind was blowing across it from the north west, the wind speed would be lower. BUT if the wind shifted to straight west, then all of a sudden the wind speed would jump a good 10 mph, and we'd have to get out of the sky in a hurry. 

There was a spot right next to an airport in San Francisco, if the wind was blowing the right direction, it could swirl around and try to pull you and your paraglider over a cliff and into the ocean. That had happened to a couple pilots. Sometimes you'd be on the side of a mountain and there was a wind in your face. Seems like time to fly! But the problem is that the wind is coming from the OPPOSITE direction, and there is big rotor in the lee of the mountain. So you take off, and the rotor sends you right into the ground. There are SO MANY WAYS for wind to mess you up. Somebody I knew died because he got sucked into an upward convergence between two air masses and flew really high. He probably got blown out to sea. We don't know because he was never found. Beginner pilots don't understand these subtleties. 

That's why I think flying a powered paraglider in negligible wind is a great way to go. Take off, buzz around for a while, see the sights, and then land in a nice flat spot.

[mike_bike_kite]

I always wanted to fly and initially tried hang gliders but the contraptions are fairly bulky. I tried paragliding, very peaceful but there's a huge amount of waiting around for the right wind etc and training involved a lot of walking up hills carrying the thing. I then saw paramotors and knew I'd found the answer. I did a course to learn to fly them and be fully acquainted with air law etc. Loved the course. I then flew with a bunch of guys just outside London. The paramotor packs down into the back of my car. I could take off from a field no matter what direction the wind was blowing. Then I could fly for 3 hours, sometimes to the coast, sometimes following rivers and streams and sometimes just flying where the hell I liked. I then landed a few feet from my car and packed up. I'd use about 2 gallons of fuel which was my total cost. I initially kept a log of my flights with pictures here. I found it a huge adrenaline rush and I loved every moment in the air but you do need to understand the risks. There were about 12 of us in my little group - I was one of the more cautious ones while others loved to do acrobatics. I eventually decided to stop when we lost 4 in our group in various accidents. Our group was aptly called the Lemmings and I earned the nickname parapendulum:

 

[.....]

wow, quite a tale. Not such great odds of survival it seems. Im still waiting for winter to pass, before I attempt to unpack my wing. Starting shitty little 2-stroke engines was never my fav pastime either.

[mike_bike_kite]

6 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

wow, quite a tale. Not such great odds of survival it seems. Im still waiting for winter to pass, before I attempt to unpack my wing. Starting shitty little 2-stroke engines was never my fav pastime either.

The folk I flew with had a different approach to personal safety to most but, at the same time, it's good to remember these sort of sports have their risks. Personally I think teaching yourself to fly is very risky. Starting these engines is always a laugh and you have to have the propeller attached to stop the engine over revving.  When I first bought my paramotor I had huge problems starting it - I just wasn't used to very simple 2 stroke engines.

I followed all sorts of advise on how to get it going. For about the first 2 dozen attempts I would be fully kitted up and have the paramotor frame strapped to a heavy table. Sadly, when it did roar into life, I'd got a little more lax on the safety front. I was inside my garage and actually had my arm fully through the protective netting in order to squeeze a little rubber bulb that someone on the internet said needed squeezing. You can imagine the picture on my face when the engine fired up to almost full speed. The wind that was being kicked up was tearing paint pots off shelves and the whole unit was trying to throw me back into a wall. The noise was also unbelievable. My immediate problem was how to turn the damn thing off though as I needed all my strength just to hold the unit in place and I had one arm stuck in position just a few fractions of an inch from the spinning propeller. In the end I think I managed to turn it off with my teeth. 

I hadn't even taken off in the thing yet....

[Gene Martin]

Here is a video from back in the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPv0dp5HSmI

I have the red jacket and my neighbor is flying the 20 meter Hadron. We both built our paramotors, based on the Skybolt V2 plans that are free on the internet. Get good training!

[.....]

back in the day = 7 years ago? Hell, that was just around the corner. That was some pretty low gliding/stalling! Looks like you're in some flat lands. Cool vid, thanks man!

Edited March 13, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Evel_Knievel]

I've done about 700 skydives, 50 paragliding flights down in Rio (gorgeous pace to fly!), 40ish BASE jumps, 5 Bungee...Hell even did a skydive from a paraglider with a BASE rig! 

Moving from Rio (paragliding territory) to Houston (paramotoring territory) I never made the transition. Might someday, but just seemed completely different than gliding silently through the air. Remember actually flying with a flock of buzzards one time, and they didn't seem to be bothered by me at all. Paramotoring would definitely be cool though!

I rank riding EUC's at 30 mph right up there with the rest of the crazy shit I've done! 

Next on my list is the scooter cannonball (coast to coast on a sub 300 cc scooter in about 10 days). 

Go for it ALL!!! 

    

[.....]

Thats awesome evil! Unfortunately, doing it all means making a tad more than $10 an hour to afford it.  If i live long enough tho.... Scooter cannonball sounds absolutely wretched!

Edited March 13, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Gene Martin]

@ShanesPlanet

That is a really nice paramotor!

[.....]

 

Too much damn fun, even failing. I do think my wife enjoyed it as much as I did. Being pulled off the ground and drug towards a barb wire fence is scarier than learning an EUC. The wind here was changing direction all the time, it was exhausting. Lack of skill didnt help, but who really needs skill to have fun? Wife and I decided long ago that its perfectly wonderful to laguh at each others folleys...  I put a typo in the vid, just to see if anyone catches it and complains.

Edited March 22, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[mike_bike_kite]

A few random thoughts:

• You need a place to practise where the wind is "clean". Currently you seem to be in a hollow and that's why the wind is swirling all around you.
• Set up some sort of windsock so you can see what the wind is doing (a streamer on a pole is fine)
• You don't want to be upwind of anything potentially dangerous (barbed wire counts as dangerous)
• Also check for rabbit holes etc
• Don't even think of putting on the paramotor before you have complete control  of the wing
• Remember that the tip of that propeller can approach the speed of sound and it's only about 4" behind your head.
• You want a helmet and stout boots even while practising ground handling - sometimes bad things happen:

 

[.....]

Thanks for the heads up. No way in HELL I'd think of having a spinning blade on my back in conditions like that. It was really a terrible chore to try and get the wing in the air. I assumed being in a huge 'hole', surrounded by close mountains all around, must have been making the wind behave oddly. It was also the first warm afternoon in a long time, so I guess that didnt help. I am also about 50lbs UNDER the minimum wing rating.  That was a fun day, and I DID start to figure out what lines go where, how to untangle the mess AND what they meant by give the A lines a tug to get it to pop up easier.  I'll have to travel a little bit to get a nice open area, probably about an hour to get over and out of these mountain valleys. Its quite amazing how little open area there is in Nw, Nc. It was a fun day, the field was soft and stays groomed (my neighbors field) and the wind was peaking at around 10mph i think. I have a wind gauge and sock, tho I didnt bother with the sock. House across street had flags flying and they only confirmed what i could read on my face. Oddly, I could feel the direction of the wind better than the wife.  Of course, once the wing was up, the wing pretty much told me. Fun times for sure, and ive lots more to practice before trying to get that motor on. Hell, the motor still needs adjusting, as i cant get her to idle anyhow.  4 hrs in the sun being drug around and I only suffered a scrape and a bruise. Hell, it aint a fun day unless something gets bruised, right?

[Scott Dorand]

I'm a little late to the party. Hope you're still alive. 

Been flying paramotors for a few years. Mostly in flat Iowa but I recently moved to the dessert mountains of California. It was quite the challenge to get used to the wind conditions. I'm looking into getting some training for free flight as It is definitely harder and more involved. The motor may seem dangerous, but it adds a lot of safety in that you can launch in dead calm conditions. I see you are in NC. My mom lives in Murphy not too far from you. I know that terrain well. It can be challenging to fly with the mountain winds and all the trees below you. You should always have a landing spot within gliding range, and the trees make it very difficult.

It looks like you've got a pretty nice training site, but you are right. It's surrounded by mountains and the wind will get churned up (its called rotor) no matter what direction the wind is blowing. Make sure your used wing has been inspected recently. Like within the last couple years! If not there are people you can send it to and it isn't expensive. The reason PPG wings are more heavily loaded (especially the high end ones) is for increased speed and agility. They are less likely to collapse with load, but when they do, they can be really hard to recover. For a beginner you want to stay inside the recommended weight range of a safe A rated wing. If you are too light the wing will be under loaded and will be more likely to collapse. It will also pull you around a lot on the ground in even the slightest wind.

I would personally look into getting some training. What's a couple thousand dollars compared to your life. But if you're bound and determined to go self-taught at least check out Aviator PPG's free Ground Handling video on YouTube. Also check out the Paramotor community on Facebook. The PPG Bible on amazon is also a great source of knowledge. 

The Facebook group can get a bit crazy with drama from time to time, but there are still a lot of people who are willing to help. The whole self trained vs professional training debate can get pretty heated as well. They can even help you diagnose engine problems!

Aviators Video:

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/paramotor/

My old paramotor channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDw-pzD5jnuOiS6u2wiSRJg

Edited May 9, 2020 by Scott Dorand
Fixing link

[.....]

Spent 2 days in the south with a guy to try and fly a paramotor. After being cooked like an egg for two 14hr days in an empty field, day three was overcast. Somehow I managed to fly the damn thing and immediately run up into a layer of fog. 2mins into first flight, lost ground communications and total visibility. This had to be one of the scariest and more dangerous things I have ever done. As I shit my pants in ZERO visibility, I was also grinning from ear to ear and thinking... THIS would make an awesome obit and MAN is this stupid and fun. I managed a 2 step landing AFTER having to come in over some transmission power lines and hearing/feeling the back lower frame clink off the top power line(pick those feet up!). I guess you can touch hi power electrical lines with your motor frame and it wont bar-b-que you! Nearer mid day the fog lifted and I flew again. This time the winds were picking up, but still overcast. No thermal activity, but i was feeling a little green in the gut after 20 minutes. I KNEW the wind was high, as my ground speed into the wind was nearly nill.  After about 30 mins, I managed to make it back to the landing site and elected to land other end. I really didnt feel like having to zig-zag over a REALLY high main feed power line, only to have to drop within 20' of the one (I just touched), then cross a road to drop fast into a small field. Second landing was soft, but i was too lazy to bother with 2 steps and let it go to my butt. Yeah, pure laziness. To be fair Im a 125lb man and that damn motor was over 50lbs. 2 days of cooking in the sun prior, those 2 30minute flights were enough fear for me for one day! My wing was GREAT, can't complain! I can NOW (without a doubt) argue that this machine is not just a fukn 'hood ornament'.  I hope to go out again soon, maybe this time in a location that has room for landings...  We forgot to take much video (damn, my tension wire act didnt get taped), but I soon should have a few minutes and pictures of the last flight, just for proof. All in all, wicked fun, wicked dangerous, wicked difficult, and one of the scariest things Ive ever done in my life. 30mph on an euc wearing jeans and a t-shirt, aint shit in compared to the risk involved with dancing atop a power line and flying a bed sheet in white out conditions. Perspective perspective!

Edited May 26, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[mike_bike_kite]

10 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

this machine is not just a fukn 'hood ornament'.

I was just trying to get you off the ground  

It is a strange mix of unreal, beautiful and, as you say, crazy scary all at the same time. Even after a few years of flying I still had the same mix of feelings.

Congratulations!!!

 

[.....]

3 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I was just trying to get you off the ground  

It is a strange mix of unreal, beautiful and, as you say, crazy scary all at the same time. Even after a few years of flying I still had the same mix of feelings.

Congratulations!!!

 

But have you managed to frame drag the main feed lines that power a nearby town? The bar is set so high now, I have to really think HARD on what to do next to up the ante Sadly, I've come to realize it takes a HUGE open area to fly/land these as a newbie. Here, tucked into the mountains, there's little hope I'll use it locally. I'll have to go to the beach or something and get some more hours in, before i can attempt anything around here. I wish I had pictures of my 125lb ass (185lb minimum wing) being carried away just kiting, with the 185lb guy hanging off the back of me to keep me from going to the land of OZ.

[Mrd777]

I’ve been paragliding with and without a motor since 97, my motor currently isn’t starting, however I prefer gliding without a motor by far.. nothing feels better then hooking into a thermal. I’ve flown many different sites throughout the world and experienced some amazing views from above. The sport also introduces you to some amazing people. In the last few years I’ve slowed down a lot, as it’s a lot of driving to sites etc., but still love the sport.