Flying W Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 This is looking like a really nice wheel, once oscillations are sorted in the first few production runs. Having a baby threw a wrench into the new wheel fund but that just means I can see how the new ones fair. Looking forward to the over heat test since I love riding off road! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted February 22, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Lukas83 said: why do you like / enjoy the Nikola more than the msp? I consider the Nikola a compact version of the MSX and it feels better balanced than the MSX/MSP - the MSX line of wheels has a very high center of gravity (good for trails, etc) but the lower center of gravity of the Nikola provides for a more natural riding experience, IMO. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted February 23, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2020 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiRoller Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Marty what speed are you getting the 80% beep on the MSP? I keep hearing kind of 33mph to 34mph... is that your experience too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted February 23, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, KiwiRoller said: Marty what speed are you getting the 80% beep on the MSP? I keep hearing kind of 33mph to 34mph... is that your experience too? I never ride my wheels to those speeds, mostly staying below 25-mph. I'm too old for that There are other people & channels to do those tests. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAY GEE Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 8 hours ago, Marty Backe said: There are other people & channels to do those tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 20 minutes ago, KAY GEE said: It's the truth, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McCutcheon Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 11 hours ago, KiwiRoller said: Marty what speed are you getting the 80% beep on the MSP? I keep hearing kind of 33mph to 34mph... is that your experience too? I've been getting similar results in my MSP tests. And it lowers to 31-32 mph as the battery goes down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted February 25, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2020 Mountain Stress Tests Today I stressed the hell out of the MSP. I now believe that the MSP is the most powerful EUC ever created. Not the fastest, but the most powerful. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Nice video! A very interesting new motor How does it compare to the Nik/16X uphills and downhills/braking? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Bonus Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Hey Marty, thank you for this great review. Can you tell us something about the acceleration capabilities of this wheel? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 torque is the best aspect of this wheel, so i think acceleration may be perfect 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meserias Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Lefteris said: torque is the best aspect of this wheel, so i think acceleration may be perfect you're about to order something else maybe this one ?! https://eucservice.com/en/gotway-msuper/73-gotway-msuper-pro-speed-msps-1800wh-100v-lg-inr21700m50t-96kmh-unloaded.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Just now, Meserias said: you're about to order something else maybe this one ?! https://eucservice.com/en/gotway-msuper/73-gotway-msuper-pro-speed-msps-1800wh-100v-lg-inr21700m50t-96kmh-unloaded.html specifically me, i've ordered a Nikola Plus 1800Wh with 21700 cells 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Bon Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 King of the hill Off road trail wheel Looks like Gaz is getting a new wheel Lov my MSX 84V just lacks in the hill climbing Cheers Marty and GW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted February 25, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Nice video! A very interesting new motor How does it compare to the Nik/16X uphills and downhills/braking? Those are smaller wheels and perhaps have comparable torque - it's really hard for me to provide objective comparisons when they aren't all in front of me. But a large wheel like the MSP has advantages on trails and roads, but typically you sacrifice torque. The MSP has changed that game. Now you can have it all. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Fred Bonus said: Hey Marty, thank you for this great review. Can you tell us something about the acceleration capabilities of this wheel? It doesn't feel lacking the acceleration department. I'm not a heavy accelerator due to failures early in my "career". So to avoid faceplants I tend not to do hard starts. I have to assume torque equates to acceleration 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 The MSP climbed a hill that only the MCM5 could climb That alone just put this at the top of my list. Is there still a normal beeper in case the speakers get ruined by rocks or sticks? The speed seems more than adequate for me. I'm used to cruising around at 23 to 24mph on the mcm5 which eats the battery up pretty fast. On these larger wheels those speeds should still give me range too! Do you notice a difference in voltage drop with the 21700 batteries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick McCutcheon Posted February 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Flying W said: Do you notice a difference in voltage drop with the 21700 batteries? I've noticed the voltage drop is less on the MSP than on the 1860wh MSX 100v. I'll be honest, I was skeptical of the MSP's abilities at first, but now I've really come to like it! There is definitely a noticable difference in how willing it is to get up to speed and stop. It still feels around the same though compared to the 1230wh MSX, but that's not really a fair comparison because of the weight difference between those wheels. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 All this talk about torque (no pun) reminds me of a thread from some time back when I used the argument that a hypothetical wheel with a 10kw motor (and suitable batteries to feed it) would feel stronger than the wheels currently available. The argument was kinda poo-pooed on the basis that if a rider isnt over-leaning their wheel then all the torque in the world wont make it 'torquier' as the wheel will only provide enough torque to balance what is being asked of it, no more. I accept that. So without power pads or some additional aid to increase leverage, I am confused as to how riders are saying the MSP has more torque if: 1. They arent applying more leverage via powerpads or otherwise. 2. They weren't overleaning their comparison wheel. In short, if people are doing apples for apples comparisons on what is essentially the same diameter wheel, with the same pedals, same side pads and even the same case (for the purposes of this point), how can it be claimed the MSP has more torque? I am not trying to make an argument here as I am not doubting the MSP has more torque available, but have these same persons reached overlean point on their old wheels to be able to claim that they have experienced it on the MSP? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Thanks Marty for the info and tests, you do a great job narrating while riding, very enjoyable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 42 minutes ago, Planemo said: In short, if people are doing apples for apples comparisons on what is essentially the same diameter wheel, with the same pedals, same side pads and even the same case (for the purposes of this point), how can it be claimed the MSP has more torque? Firmware (the motor control) makes a big difference, just ask any KS owner Sounds like Gotway was able to do more with the MSP hardware+software than in previous models, excellent! (You're right that Marty doesn't hit overlean on any of his 14"+ wheels, and so the peak motor torque is not actually being used.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said: Firmware (the motor control) makes a big difference The wheel is either being overleaned (taken beyond the motor/battery power available) or it isn't. I dont see how firmware makes any difference. Unless the FW is that crap that it isn't supplying what the motor/battery are capable of. Quote (You're right that Marty doesn't hit overlean on any of his 14"+ wheels, and so the peak motor torque is not actually being used.) So how are people clarifying the MSP has more torque if even the torque on 14" + wheels isn't actually being used? Edited February 25, 2020 by Planemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Planemo said: In short, if people are doing apples for apples comparisons on what is essentially the same diameter wheel, with the same pedals, same side pads and even the same case (for the purposes of this point), how can it be claimed the MSP has more torque? One thing beside the "torque possible by geometry" is "some kind of firmware amplification" which seems to be possible. The other (?main?) thing is that the msp has a lower kv motor, so for the same torque at the same speed it needs less current. So at some hills (low speed, high torque, high current) the msx could theoreticly by its geometry and electric desogn deliver the torque to go up this hill, but by the high current needed overheat rhe mosfets or even fry them. With the same hill the msp by his lower kv motor needs less current for the same torque abd climb it without overheating the mosfets... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RagingGrandpa Posted February 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Planemo said: The wheel is either being overleaned (taken beyond the motor/battery power available) or it isn't. I dont see how firmware makes any difference. Unless the FW is that crap that it isn't supplying what the motor/battery are capable of. So how are people clarifying the MSP has more torque if its not actually being used? "Torque" is a word representing a sensation, not a measurement, to many end-users. Search "zippyness" in the forum, if you're hung up on the whole quantitative-vs-qualitative thing. Said another way: people are reporting the MSP "feels more grunty." "More eager." "More sporty at low speeds." "Less sluggish." Cool! Marty is giving real-world feedback that matters- without using lean pads, this is the first 18" wheel he's been able to climb his standard test surface with. Why? My assertion is more aggressive control software, which at low wheel speeds seems to respond to small rider inputs with larger motor current than previous models. This higher sensitivity seems to let experienced riders like Marty get into a forward-leaning stance more easily, and therefore they can put more CG offset on the wheel and get those higher motor forces they wanted. Previous wheels with less sensitive lowspeed control did keep the pedals flat-ish, but I suspect the MSP is giving a kick current in response to change in rider command. Sounds like they managed to do it without the control feeling 'busy' either. Transients and HMI are a big part of this situation, making the difference between 'stepping off' and 'staying on.' Edited February 25, 2020 by RagingGrandpa 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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