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My MSP Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures


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5 hours ago, Planemo said:

Agreed. I think around 34mph (at best) is going to be the 80% trigger for the MSP.

Yes, this is correct, we tested it with a gps in nyc

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Mountain Stress Tests Today I stressed the hell out of the MSP. I now believe that the MSP is the most powerful EUC ever created. Not the fastest, but the most powerful.  

Gas Mileage Looks Good Today (Sunday) I took it for my first major ride, about 52-miles in the mountains. We climbed ~5200 feet and when you combine all the ups and downs, covered ~14,000-feet.

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9 hours ago, Rafal said:

So it gives us a range of 57.5 miles on full charge. Not bad at all.

I didn't say that. You have extrapolated which is something I don't like to do. I'll be doing my full range test within a few days where I will actually run it until full tilt-back kicks me off the wheel. Than I can tell you what range it gets.

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11 hours ago, Planemo said:

TBH that doesn't sound great to me. I used to get 30 miles out of my Z10 at the same speeds in the warmer months (about 25 deg C), running it down to the same 20%. Maybe it's just me, but I would expect a battery thats 81% larger (in the MSP) to give more than a 53% increase in range. It does also sorta confirm that my buddy could and did rinse the MSP in just 30 miles when at an average of 25mph to the max 32/33 ish. He was on the beeps quite often as well.

You also said that you got around 50 miles out of your MSX 1600wh. More mileage with a smaller battery than the MSP.

I do however appreciate that theres a lot of variables going on other than speed and air temp though.

Out of interest, what air temp was it in your MSP example Marty?

I try and do apples-to-apples comparisons. When I do my actual range test within a few days, I'll be using the same route and speeds of all my other range tests. We'll see what happens, but based on what I'm seeing with my MSP, I expect it to get noticeably better range than my MSX. I call that good. On this long and fast ride it did better than my other wheels under comparable conditions. These are my comparative tests and can't be compared to yours or others.

I just completed a 4500-foot mountain climbing test with the MSP. Once again, it was getting the same "gas mileage" as my many other wheels that I've tried.

So I really just don't agree with you that the MSP is noticeably worse. We can agree to disagree on this :)

The temperature was low-70's. There's not a wide variance in my riding temperatures year-round 

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11 hours ago, Planemo said:

TBH that doesn't sound great to me. I used to get 30 miles out of my Z10 at the same speeds in the warmer months (about 25 deg C), running it down to the same 20%. Maybe it's just me, but I would expect a battery thats 81% larger (in the MSP) to give more than a 53% increase in range. It does also sorta confirm that my buddy could and did rinse the MSP in just 30 miles when at an average of 25mph to the max 32/33 ish. He was on the beeps quite often as well.

You also said that you got around 50 miles out of your MSX 1600wh. More mileage with a smaller battery than the MSP.

I do however appreciate that theres a lot of variables going on other than speed and air temp though.

Out of interest, what air temp was it in your MSP example Marty?

I also want to clarify that 50-miles on my 1600wh MSX was on my range test track at slower speeds. Meaningless to compare that to what I just reported with my MSP.

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5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I try and do apples-to-apples comparisons. When I do my actual range test within a few days, I'll be using the same route and speeds of all my other range tests.

I do get that, which is why I stated that there are variables other than speed and air temp on my previous post.

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So I really just don't agree with you that the MSP is noticeably worse. We can agree to disagree on this :)

You're stating that its not worse but this is based only on the speeds you have done.

I am simply providing a data point, as taken by what we saw in the UK. The MSP, at near or on max speeds, used up a chunk more battery than a 100v MSX which was ridden at even higher speeds.

You can take my data point or not, but I feel its relevant because if someone is looking to buy an MSP and is likely to be riding it near its top speed for much of the time, it might be worth considering that the 'big' 1800wh battery may not give them the range they were expecting, and instead maybe look towards a 100v MSX or even an 84v MSX given the similar top speed to the MSP. If they ride at the speeds you ride at, they may be fine with an MSP, and can enjoy the extra torque as a bonus.

I dont know the full answers as to why the MSP faired so badly in our tests. It may be that the new powerful motor is terribly inefficient near its max rpm. It could be any number of factors. What we do know is that it was the same rider, on the same route at the same air temps, reversed on the same day to account for wind speed.

You are of course free to believe that the data we obtained is irrelevant :)

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7 hours ago, Chronic said:

Look, here's an interesting video

I think it was a very good speed test

Thank you to the Russian brothers who tested it.

 

The Russian brother in question goes by Fantomas he weighs 165 lbs for reference.  Stock MSP.  You should see him jump on the EUC's. :o

Edited by Mark Lee
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8 hours ago, Planemo said:

I do get that, which is why I stated that there are variables other than speed and air temp on my previous post.

You're stating that its not worse but this is based only on the speeds you have done.

I am simply providing a data point, as taken by what we saw in the UK. The MSP, at near or on max speeds, used up a chunk more battery than a 100v MSX which was ridden at even higher speeds.

You can take my data point or not, but I feel its relevant because if someone is looking to buy an MSP and is likely to be riding it near its top speed for much of the time, it might be worth considering that the 'big' 1800wh battery may not give them the range they were expecting, and instead maybe look towards a 100v MSX or even an 84v MSX given the similar top speed to the MSP. If they ride at the speeds you ride at, they may be fine with an MSP, and can enjoy the extra torque as a bonus.

I dont know the full answers as to why the MSP faired so badly in our tests. It may be that the new powerful motor is terribly inefficient near its max rpm. It could be any number of factors. What we do know is that it was the same rider, on the same route at the same air temps, reversed on the same day to account for wind speed.

You are of course free to believe that the data we obtained is irrelevant :)

OK, thanks for that clarifying statement. It was too subtle for me to pick up initially :D  You are saying it's much more inefficient at high speeds. I can't argue with that since I don't ride in that realm.

When I do my range test and summarize my findings I'll be sure to clarify that my results are based on my speed envelop and that there's at least one data point out there (yours) that indicates it may be much worse when operated primarily at the upper speed ranges.

:cheers:

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3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

can't argue with that since I don't ride in that realm.

Uncle Marty, you need to put your cape back on and start getting aggressive with these wheels, we need you to ride at 25 mph plus  :ph34r:

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3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

OK, thanks for that clarifying statement. It was too subtle for me to pick up initially :D  You are saying it's much more inefficient at high speeds. I can't argue with that since I don't ride in that realm.

When I do my range test and summarize my findings I'll be sure to clarify that my results are based on my speed envelop and that there's at least one data point out there (yours) that indicates it may be much worse when operated primarily at the upper speed ranges.

:cheers:

No problem buddy, its all good :thumbup: 

The more data the better. Leave it up to others to pick the bones out of whats been gathered for them to make their own decisions :)

I look foward to reading your controlled tests.

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4 minutes ago, Arbolest said:

Woah, the double headlight looks really yellow in this shot! It almost matches your pants!

If the lights are on I risk burning out my camera sensor ;)

The lights on this MSP are like nothing I've seen before. As daylight running lights they look like lasers that can be seen from a great distance. I love them.

P.s. The lights are not on in this shot.

Edited by Marty Backe
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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

If the lights are on I risk burning out my camera sensor ;)

The lights on this MSP are like nothing I've seen before. As daylight running lights they look like lasers that can be seen from a great distance. I love them.

P.s. The lights are not on in this shot.

They really are great, I've been riding the MSP around to better understand how it differs from the 100v MSX. I don't even have to turn on my headlamp anymore, it's so nice! I don't think it's a plug and play replacement, but if I ever have to order a new control board I'll ask for an the MSP board and an MSP headlight module.

Also, I modded my seat to work with the MSP, and I can't detect any oscillating even at 33+ mph. I'll aim to bring EUCO's MSP to our ride next weekend, and I think it would be interesting to have you try them side by side.

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12 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

It has noticeably better low speed torque capability for slowing climbing up and over things (big rocks, etc.).

A Nikola update with the new motor and board would be very interesting then!

How is the MSP braking? Also better?

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55 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm nicknaming the MSP "The Tank". I did the 4500-ft Mt Wilson climb yesterday. It has noticeably better low speed torque capability for slowing climbing up and over things (big rocks, etc.).

Do you think "The Tank" has way better performance than the KS16X when it comes to dirt/rock trails? The New King of The Hill for off roading?

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16 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

This is a long video with sounds of "nature" :) But I've included a Time Index so you can jump around if desired.

very nice Marty, can't wait for overheat hill. 

why do you like / enjoy the Nikola more than the msp? 

 

 

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