Wuhan Coronavirus - are you prepared?

[travsformation]

18 hours ago, LanghamP said:

But as @travsformationcomplains about going off topic, should we care about the younger generation?

Seriously....? 😓

My explanation was perfectly clear: At @atdlzpae's suggestion, I split a lengthy tangent to its own thread so said discussion could continue there. I did so for the purpose of keeping this thread (somewhat) on track, as in contains a wealth of information that is valuable to all those who are following it.

I'm sure you have your own personal reasons for intentionally misconstruing my explanation and gratuitously provoking me (or other users) into pointless arguments, but that's of zero value to everyone else. I'm sorry for calling you out like this, but I've let a lot of pointless baiting slide in this thread, and while I have no issue just ignoring it, it's detrimental to the conversation at large so I'd politely ask you to refrain from doing so in the future.

The rest of your post contained interesting information and reflections, your contributions are very valuable minus the baiting. Why not do without the latter? 

Edited April 25, 2020 by travsformation

[LanghamP]

10 hours ago, travsformation said:

Seriously....? 😓

My explanation was perfectly clear: At @atdlzpae's suggestion, I split a lengthy tangent to its own thread so said discussion could continue there. I did so for the purpose of keeping this thread (somewhat) on track, as in contains a wealth of information that is valuable to all those who are following it.

I'm sure you have your own personal reasons for intentionally misconstruing my explanation and gratuitously provoking me (or other users) into pointless arguments, but that's of zero value to everyone else. I'm sorry for calling you out like this, but I've let a lot of pointless baiting slide in this thread, and while I have no issue just ignoring it, it's detrimental to the conversation at large so I'd politely ask you to refrain from doing so in the future.

The rest of your post contained interesting information and reflections, your contributions are very valuable minus the baiting. Why not do without the latter? 

I was referring to you (and all of us) going to off topic and not to any particular political position. That is, my sentence first has "going off topic" then a comma separation, then a didactic rhetorical question. Read that sentence carefully and you'll see that the two ideas are delineated by both being a compound sentence and a comma.

The reason why I ask if the older generation should care about the younger generation is because by our actions we do not via regulations and debt. The rhetorical question I ask (or the baiting question as you define it) is why should we not be highly exploitive of the younger generation?

It's closely related to the following questions..

1. Why should we close the economy when it's mostly the elderly who get sick and die? Consider the Baby Boomers have twenty times the wealth of Millinials and have a pension to boot, while more than half of people under the age of 30 (the least likely to have savings to weather this storm) have lost their jobs.

2. Why should we be environmentally responsible when we can enjoy our standard of living while kicking the environmental bill downstream?

I think everyone has struggled to answer the "why should I care?" when an action helps an individual while harming society. 

[Rehab1]

A special performance to brighten the day during this crisis. 
 

 

[travsformation]

14 hours ago, LanghamP said:

That is, my sentence first has "going off topic" then a comma separation, then a didactic rhetorical question. Read that sentence carefully and you'll see that the two ideas are delineated by both being a compound sentence and a comma.

I still maintain that the first sentence is neither true, nor necessary. But no point going on a syntactic tangent now... 

14 hours ago, LanghamP said:

1. Why should we close the economy when it's mostly the elderly who get sick and die? Consider the Baby Boomers have twenty times the wealth of Millinials and have a pension to boot, while more than half of people under the age of 30 (the least likely to have savings to weather this storm) have lost their jobs.

2. Why should we be environmentally responsible when we can enjoy our standard of living while kicking the environmental bill downstream?

I think everyone has struggled to answer the "why should I care?" when an action helps an individual while harming society. 

Interesting points you make. What I find the most ironic is that, at least my direct environment (I haven't looked up any demographics studies), baby boomers seem to be respecting the stay-at-home orders much less than younger people. I've even heard the occasional "Go home, we're locked in for your sake!" yelled from balconies by younger people at boomers.

Looks like a lot of countries are studying the idea of easing the lockdown by letting young adults out first:

https://time.com/5818593/young-people-leave-coronavirus-lockdown/

[travsformation]

11 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

A special performance to brighten the day during this crisis. 

Thanks Rehab! 

[LanghamP]

On 4/26/2020 at 5:46 AM, travsformation said:

What I find the most ironic is that, at least my direct environment (I haven't looked up any demographics studies), baby boomers seem to be respecting the stay-at-home orders much less than younger people. I've even heard the occasional "Go home, we're locked in for your sake!" yelled from balconies by younger people at boomers.

Viruses that become widespread invariably mutate to affect more of the general population, because they are so successful in spreading and increasing their numbers and their chances of mutation. Historically this is what has happened. It's not the minor 1st you should fear; it's the 2nd and 3rd waves that injures indiscriminately.

[travsformation]

On 4/15/2020 at 6:51 AM, Toshio Uemura said:

Here is an interesting follow-up interview with the Korean virologists. In case you haven’t seen it. I consider it good information in contrast to the blame and panic journalism that is all around:

 

 

 

Finally got around to watching his second video (the one above). Excellent information, by far the best explanations I've seen to date. Very thorough, objective, non-opinionated, and stays clear of politics. Great video, thanks for sharing! 

BTW...do you know if anyone has asked him his opinion on drinking disinfectant?  

[bigwave]

This is a very informative video that was taken down by Youtube.

https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/video-interview-with-dr-dan-erickson-and-dr-artin-massihi-taken-down-from-youtube

[travsformation]

10 hours ago, bigwave said:

This is a very informative video that was taken down by Youtube.

https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/video-interview-with-dr-dan-erickson-and-dr-artin-massihi-taken-down-from-youtube

I imagine a lot of users reported the video, leading to it being removed. After that, it's Youtube, content moderation and 1st amendment ethical dilemmas...tricky business...

[travsformation]

 

[LanghamP]

The US Air Force is flying single pilot airplanes in formation 1000 feet above the ground in both New York and North Carolina. Dumping hundred of tons of used jet fuel over an urban population may increase the moral of said populace.

[Gasmantle]

On 4/30/2020 at 11:39 AM, travsformation said:

I imagine a lot of users reported the video, leading to it being removed. After that, it's Youtube, content moderation and 1st amendment ethical dilemmas...tricky business...

I think potentially it could be problematic if the likes of Youtube and social media start deleting information that is declared as untrue, who decides what is true and what isn't where potentially there could be doubt?

I'd argue some information that is actually true could be getting censored because interested parties don't want said information leaked. Over censorship can limit peoples freedom of speech.

If we say that only obviously false information is censored then where do we stop? Surely it makes sense to delete most religious material, creationism is clearly false yet people believe this nonsense and deny evolution as fact.

On a different subject the UK government have been strongly criticised for not providing hospital with enough protective equipment - for the last few days they have been telling us they have delivered 1 billion items since the virus started. What has now emerged is they are counting a pair of gloves as 2 items !!  It's nearly as good as Donald Trump suggesting drinking disinfectant could kill the virus. How do these halfits ever get into government.  

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Gasmantle

[mrelwood]

55 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

I think potentially it could be problematic if the likes of Youtube and social media start deleting information that is declared as untrue, who decides what is true and what isn't where potentially there could be doubt?

Truth or not didn’t make a difference for removing the video. But the ramifications of people potentially disobeying the global and local guidelines for the quarantine.

 

[Gasmantle]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Truth or not didn’t make a difference for removing the video. But the ramifications of people potentially disobeying the global and local guidelines for the quarantine.

 

I understand that, I merely making the point that if we aren't careful governments across the globe will use corona virus as an excuse to censor information they don't want the public to see.

I have no opinion on how the virus started etc but I do think it has given politicians of all flavours a rather convenient smokescreen with which to introduce extra surveillance or restrict movement of citizens etc.

My guess is we are about to start on a very dangerous path shortly.

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Gasmantle said:

I understand that, I merely making the point that if we aren't careful governments across the globe will use corona virus as an excuse to censor information they don't want the public to see.

I absolutely agree. At the very end of the video when the conference had officially ended, the doctor shared his suspicions about what is really going on.

3 hours ago, Gasmantle said:

My guess is we are about to start on a very dangerous path shortly.

I think a lot depends on how and when the quarantine is lifted. It will be very interesting and suspenseful to see. It’s a great opportunity to screw up big time.

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

think a lot depends on how and when the quarantine is lifted. It will be very interesting and suspenseful to see. It’s a great opportunity to screw up big time

Post 9/11, Snowden's leaked documents showed how far  surveillance had permeated US society at all levels. Those tools and warrants haven't been taken down now that the masterminds of that attack have been eliminated. To be fair, surveillance and action (the covid-19 part) was always going towards more authoritarian as technology increased.

[Gasmantle]

I can't help but feel we are all only being drip fed part of a bigger picture when it comes to this crisis.

I certainly wouldn't consider myself a conspiracy theorist who thinks there is some secret 'New world order' emerging but at the same time I think it's not unreasonable to question whether there is some hidden agenda at work here.

Even today I'm not convinced the 9/11 attacks were exactly as we are told, that doesn't mean to say I think it was an 'inside job' but I do think it was a tool used to curb our freedoms. In the last 20 yrs we have been continually bombarded with information that the terrorist threat is serious - personally I don't believe the hype. 

I can't remember the exact figures so I am guessing a bit here but I read that in the UK since 9/11 something like 100,000x as many people have died of coronary disease than have been killed by terrorists yet we spend something like 20x as much combating so called 'terrorists' as we do on researching and treating coronary disease. Like I say those aren't the exact figures but I'm sure you can see the point I'm making.

It would seem to me the 'terrorism threat is more to do with creating fear in the population in order that the public wont object to increases surveillance etc.

My guess is this virus is now a useful tool for governments to allow implementation of 'stage 2' of their agenda.

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

it's not unreasonable to question whether there is some hidden agenda at work here.

As always, the most correct truth is told by following the money. Surveillance is one thing, which I’m sure the govs are very interested in, but I believe it’s the short to mid term money flow that explains most things in society. Both in 9/11 as well as in this prolonged quarantine.

 Situations can of course also just be taken advantage from, but if the official explanations do not hold water after just a little research... as the doctors said: “something else is going on”.

 

[LanghamP]

13 hours ago, mrelwood said:

always, the most correct truth is told by following the money. Surveillance is one thing, which I’m sure the govs are very interested in, but I believe it’s the short to mid term money flow that explains most things in society. Both in 9/11 as well as in this prolonged quarantine.

I think usually we do follow the money. This doesn't appear to be the case at all, and I think the reason why is straightforward.

--The 2008 crisis had financial institutions in trouble, but industries outside finance were fine (although pollutive).

--The 2020 crisis closed all industries except finance industries, which bizarrely is charging fees to move money around that they are borrowing with negative interest rates. 

The largest industries...energy...are in a tailspin, with a few fracking companies now insolvent and filing bankruptcy. Shell is even releasing an astonishing prospectus saying demand essentially they are screwed. Shell?!

The biggest beneficiary is the health industry, as a visit to the hospital's ICU costs between $40,000 (low end) to $200,000 (average). 

Let me repeat that...

The biggest loser is the health industry, as a visit to the hospital's ICU costs between $40,000 (low end) to $200,000 (average), with few people having the means to pay for that. About 1/4 to 1/3 of hospitals are now insolvent, with not a prayer of even meeting their operating costs.

Environmentalism, being the diametric opposite of economic activity, are the big winners, although one suspects they are like a bemused Dorothy from Wizard of Oz landing safe and sound on top of a winning lottery ticket.

Edited May 2, 2020 by LanghamP

[Toshio Uemura]

18 hours ago, LanghamP said:

now that the masterminds of that attack have been eliminated.

I am not so sure about that.
Seems to me like the alleged mastermind had been killed, long before he was eliminated officially. So who are the real puppeteers and masterminds behind those attacks, I wonder? 

Watch this from 2:16 onward. It’s eye opening and shads a different light on certain „historic“ events.

 

[Patton250]

It seems that some of you are finally coming around to the fact that we’ve been scammed here. Not scammed purposely at first but definitely now. Good. I was at Lowe’s this morning and I have never in all my life seen it that busy. It was packed with wall-to-wall people. Maybe 20% were actually wearing masks. It gave me some hope that all this nonsense will be over soon. Soon we can send Rocco and Vinny over to visit Dr. Fauci and help him find his checkbook. The way I figure it he owes just the United States roughly $10 trillion. I hope they launch investigations soon as to how we allowed it to get this bad and hurt so many peoples lives. The Financial devastation is incalculable. The mental devastation, physical abuse, marital abuse, child abuse, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse and many more things that have been happening as a result of this massive overreaction is also incalculable. I hope people go to jail over it. One thing is for sure can never happen again. The worst part of it all for me, because I’m financially fine and my family is doing well, is watching how easily and how fast so many of my fellow Americans gave up their rights. It took barely nothing for them. I hope they realize people of power took notice to this. 
 

fear is the recipe for control.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Patton250

[RetroThruster]

I'm a mail carrier, we're delivering more parcels right now than Christmas, and it's ongoing, if carrying three 50 lb bags of dog food up a driveway and two flights of stairs doesn't kill me, nothing will...  I tried wearing a mask and such, if I was standing around, maybe, but not running my ass off the way I do.

[Rehab1]

9 minutes ago, RetroThruster said:

I'm a mail carrier, we're delivering more parcels right now than Christmas, and it's ongoing, if carrying three 50 lb bags of dog food up a driveway and two flights of stairs doesn't kill me, nothing will...  I tried wearing a mask and such, if I was standing around, maybe, but not running my ass off the way I do.

You have a tough job! My wife has Chewy dog products delivered and the drivers I’ve spoken to hate it. My wife would give you a big hug! 
 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Rehab1

[Rehab1]

I received a beat down at work last Wednesday. If everything could go wrong it did. 

1)A dad arrived to have his son’s cast removed and another cast applied for his son’s brace. Unbeknownst to me my secretary did not have on her face mask but quickly donned it in his presence.

2) Then the secretary was supposed to take their temperatures and record them but my other secretary had put the infrared temp scanner in her pocket and left. No temp taken

3)Then the father and his son went into the cast room awaiting my arrival. 15 minutes passed before I was able to see them but the guy had left accusing us of not following COVID 19 guidelines.

i was mortified to say the least. Every sanity practice I had put into place over the past  7 weeks were botched in an instant. He refused to return or accept my offer that I would travel to his home to perform the procedure. 

4)Then he sent me a photo of our cast table accusing that it was not clean. That hit me hard as I cannot see anything wrong except for a few little plaster speckles. 

None of these incidents should have happened with all of the staff company meetings and virus protocols in place over the past 7 weeks.  I’m still bummed.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Rehab1

[RetroThruster]

1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

You have a tough job! My wife has Chewy dog products delivered and the drivers I’ve spoken to hate it. My wife would give you a big hug! 
 

 

Thank goodness FedEx is delivering Chewy here, those guys/gals get their butts kicked with dog food AND cat litter, they punted Amazon, bad for me to say but I hope they don't drop Chewy too.