Wuhan Coronavirus - are you prepared?

[mike_bike_kite]

10 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

I clearly said I go out only once per day and not at all most days.

Then I'm happy

[Gasmantle]

7 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Then I'm happy

Thanks I wasn't tying to be rude, I was just saying that as I live in a quite little village and actually go out very little I consider the occasional 5 min trip to get a few cans of beer is reasonable once in a while.

Clearly the semi lockdown is sensible but it may well go on for a long time and I think there is a better chance of people co-operating if the police use a bit of common sense.

In a sense this virus couldn't have happened at a worse time - in the UK we've had months of dark winter nights with torrential rain then as soon as the government want us to stay in the sun comes out.

[travsformation]

2 hours ago, Gasmantle said:

The London Underground is arguably the most densly packed railway in the world and for weeks into the virus spread it has been running at full capacity cramming people into confined carriages with no ventilation - even now it still runs (albeit with less occupancy) - wouldn't it make sense to have staff ensuring people hand cleanse at the entrance and way out? But they don't do it - why not?

It's no good applying rigid rules without thinking it through properly while ignoring the real danger areas.

You have a point. Your example above is exactly what I meant when I said people are going to be protesting about the bad management once this blows over...here it's the same. I had to go to the pharmacy between my last comment and this one, to pick up some meds I'll be driving to my mother's on Monday, as she ordered them from the pharmacy in her village a week ago and they're receiving zero deliveries. I was riding home on a deserted boulevard (no detours, just straight to the pharmacy and back), when I came across the police coming coming towards me in the opposite direction. They couldn't flash their lights and subtly indicate for me to stop, they had to make a show of it and swerve diagonally into my lane, cutting me off. They seem to think they're John f*ing McLane...

They asked me for my receipt from the pharmacy (I would have been fined if I had forgotten to ask for one) and were very harsh and unfriendly. When I drive over to my mother's on Monday to take her her medication, I'm going to have to take a ridiculous amount of documentation with me to justify the drive, and if I get stopped, it'll depend on the officer and what mood he's in whether he accepts it or sends me home with a €600 fine.

There are over 150 confirmed cases in my city, and 1 in her village, and that person has been isolated, so I'm going to leave the medication and groceries on her doorstep and leave without interacting with anyone. I've instructed my mother to disinfect everything I bring her before putting it in the cupboard. Yet I still risk getting fined, while people commute every day for the non-essential services that are still permitted, subways are still open, public transport is still functioning, and no one is able to score masks, gloves or hand sanitizer, nor are the government or transportation authorities providing any.

The hypocrisy is infuriating, but it's something we have to live with. If only those in charge could be held as accountable as we are...

Yet I'm still in favour of the mandatory lockdown. Nearly 12K deaths here in Spain...despite the lockdown (which is going to be extended until the 26th). I dare not imagine how bad it would be if people were allowed to do as they pleased...

[travsformation]

Talking about non-essentials, supermarkets have started blocking off areas selling products that are non-essential:

 

 

 

[Gasmantle]

On a light hearted note but loosely in keeping with the thread topic I wondered if anyone had seen this virtual horse race.

In the UK we have a major horse race in Liverpool every April. it's referred to as the Grand National and is kind of a national institution, obviously in the current situation it had to be cancelled but it was decided to run a virtual computer generated race in real time that people could bet on. Apparently they fed the computer with a plethora of statistics on current horse / jockey form then using complex algorithms the race was run in real time.

It's not perfect but I guess in 10 years time technology will enable a virtual sporting event look like the real thing, it sounds a bit far fetched but I do wonder if in the future major events are cancelled they will be simulated.

 

[Gasmantle]

@travsformationthat posting about cordoning off supermarket aisles is exactly the stupidity I was getting at. If a shop open for the sale of food also sells a piece of hardware etc that in itself isn't essential but could be needed then surely it makes sense to sell it.

By all means keep the aisle closed if they want but at least use a bit of common sense and have a member of staff who can get you a banned item. It would discourage abuse but at least allow people to buy something they need.

Someone earlier mentioned supermarkets won't sell a computer mouse because they aren't essential, I think we'll all agree they aren't essential but I think we'd also agree it's highly desirable if your existing mouse has broken - to prevent someone buying one is stupidity.

If you are going to allow people to only buy essentials like food etc that's ok for a few days but after a few weeks things that weren't initially essential start to become essential. What if I need a hacksaw or I wan't some plant pots etc.

My guess is if you stop people buying something reasonable they will either drive somewhere else or start asking neighbours etc and then the restriction becomes counter productive.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Gasmantle

[meepmeepmayer]

@Gasmantle This is more about protecting the shops that have to close from feeling unfairly disadvantaged, and to prevent gaming the essential/non-essential system (anyone could start selling food and call the entire store essential otherwise). Can't force one guy who sells X to close and allow another guy to keep selling X.

There's also a small argument to be made that allowing non-essential stuff to be sold incentivizes trips that would otherwise might not be made.

But I completely agree that this essential vs. nonessential stuff gets nonsensical very soon. If this quarantining stuff doesn't end in April, serious changes will have to be made (opening all retail locations again, with some serious restrictions where necessary).

[LanghamP]

Quarantine won't work if wealthy carriers move around as they please. Without exception, all new infections in affected countries were from the wealthy class who flew around the world as they pleased. Even when borders were closed, already purchased tickets on private flights allowed wealthy carriers to continue infecting virgin areas. Notably, all new infections in small towns under lockdown come from wealthy carriers fleeing infected areas.

In comparison, you could almost draw an economic line between businesses allowed to stay open and those that aren't. Virtually all low paid workers can't work.

 

[Rehab1]

Well my business is beginning to crawl to a standstill with possible layoffs so I just submitted the necessary documentation to apply for the Employee Paycheck Protection Program.

I want to protect the people that have worked for me for decades. I’m sure it will be a slow process but hopefully it will provide some level of comfort to my faithful employees. 

[Rehab1]

17 hours ago, travsformation said:

Talking about non-essentials, supermarkets have started blocking off areas selling products that are non-essential:

Same here in the US. It makes no sense having clothing to try on and toys to touch that only provides the virus with a safe haven as it patiently waits for the next customer.  

Just taking a moment to lighten up the mood on this thread. 

 

[travsformation]

13 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Same here in the US. It makes no sense having clothing to try on and toys to touch that only provides the virus with a safe haven as it patiently waits for the next customer.  

I completely agree with that. And I think it's the right move by retailers: if we aren't allowed to go out to buy non-essentials, the fact people can't buy them will be one fewer excuse to go on a shopping run. But people will find excuses anyway...They'll probably start stockpiling beaked beans, one can/trip. Hopefully that's what they'll stockpile, so karma can do its job...

17 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Just taking a moment to lighten up the mood on this thread. 

Much needed, nice one!

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Well my business is beginning to crawl to a standstill with possible layoffs

Aren't you the definition of "essential"? Or did traffic simply reduce massively? I'm surprised you're hit so hard. Well, nothing I can do but wish you all the best!

[atdlzpae]

21 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

I hope you feel better buddy! Must be tough working in that outfit.

With missing filters this mask is probably worse than wearing a scarf.

Edited April 5, 2020 by atdlzpae

[LanghamP]

"Boomer Remover" is almost entirely accurate, from NY.

DEATHS BY AGE

The state’s list of 3,565 coronavirus fatalities are as follows:

0 to 9 -- 0

10 to 19 -- 2

20 to 29 -- 22

30 to 39 -- 76

40 to 49 -- 158

50 to 59 -- 377

60 to 69 -- 663

70 to 79 -- 942

80 to 89 -- 918

90 and Older -- 405

Unknown -- 2

 

[Rehab1]

10 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Aren't you the definition of "essential"? Or did traffic simply reduce massively? I'm surprised you're hit so hard. Well, nothing I can do but wish you all the best!

We are but my referral sources are drying up.

Parents with prescriptions are understandably scared to take their kids out of the house and my referrals from pediatric therapy groups and orthopedists have stopped their patient clinics.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Rehab1

[meepmeepmayer]

14 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

We are but my referral sources are drying up.

Parents with prescriptions are understandably scared to take their kids out of the house and my referrals from pediatric therapy groups and orthopedists which have stopped their patient clinics.

I have the highest respect for someone running his own business like that. So I understand how this must be jarring, being disrupted like that with no fault of your own and no certainy how it will go on Well, again, good luck, and may this be over soon (in the US, I don't think so - not sure how well and fast Ohio did take precautions).

Edited April 5, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[meepmeepmayer]

@LanghamP I would switch from "Boomer Remover" to "Boomer Doomer" or "Boomer Ex" if you want to keep going that angle (I neither approve nor disapprove tbh) - rolls better off the tongue

[atdlzpae]

19 hours ago, travsformation said:

Talking about non-essentials, supermarkets have started blocking off areas selling products that are non-essential

Spain too? What idiot decided that frying pans, plates, mugs and utensils are non-essential?

Edited April 5, 2020 by atdlzpae

[Grumly]

3 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

What idiot decided that frying pans, plates, mugs and utensils are non-essential?

Same thought, especially when the increase in domestic disputes will result in more broken plates. There will also be a lot of traumatized toddlers when previously ordinary accidents turn into "you little * that was our last bowl I wish you were never born!!!". Poor child, that's gonna be harsh.

More seriously, another example. A few days ago I heard someone in a radio interview ranting about people buying tools in DIY stores. How can one damn know if those purchases are essential or not ? What if the dude has a to repair some important home equipment ? Completely impractical to verify.

Now I live in a country house we restored with my girlfriend, so we have a lot of tools as well as lots of residual constructions materials in lots of construction fields (yet missing a 6-8 tons  caterpillar excavator. Hell that would be loads of fun but they're so damn expensive to buy and even a lot more to maintain). So we can repair, or at the worst workaround most possible failures at home without having to go shopping for missing stuff.

But for folks living in a small apartment, who have no reasons to own a workshop with half a DIY store in there, there can be unanticipated needs. Just have to fullfill them being as cautious as possible.

Groceries shopping, being recurrent, causes far more exposure risk. Yet we have to live with that...

[travsformation]

4 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

Spain too? What idiot decided that frying pans, plates, mugs and utensils are non-essential?

Haven't you heard? None of those are needed anymore. People are apparently on a strict diet of toilet paper these days 😂

[Unventor]

8 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Well my business is beginning to crawl to a standstill with possible layoffs so I just submitted the necessary documentation to apply for the Employee Paycheck Protection Program.

I want to protect the people that have worked for me for decades. I’m sure it will be a slow process but hopefully it will provide some level of comfort to my faithful employees. 

I can only say one thing. I feel with you, that is not the same as I claim I know how it feel.

I am so fortunate to live in an area where government have posted economic aid packages trying to support and boost companies that got the carpet drawn away under their feet.

Starting this week I am going from a 5 day a week shift to a 4 day a week shift. 20% down in time, but only taking a 4% pay cut. Government will reimburse company for pay and some social tax fees. So company saves about 36% of my employe costs. This is temporarily until mid summer time. But could go on the rest of the year potentiality.

This is tier 1 of 20%. There is a year 2 and 3 too, 40% down in time at 6% pay cut and 60% down in time at 7.5% pay cut.

It is not as much we have less to do at work, but more we are not selling as much as before the outbreak. 

I consider myself lucky not to be more impacted yet by the virus directly. 

We are not on hard lockdown yet here in Sweden. But I have been working from home 3 weeks now. And it seems to go on for a longer time.

I am glad I don't have to make your decisions and balance between protecting the company and the future or your employees. 

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, Grumly said:

Same thought, especially when the increase in domestic disputes will result in more broken plates. There will also be a lot of traumatized toddlers when previously ordinary accidents turn into "you little * that was our last bowl I wish you were never born!!!". Poor child, that's gonna be harsh.

Divorce rates spiked in China, and presumably will also do so in the USA. However, I would guess the US divorce rate will absolutely skyrocket because of the number of people laid off.

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/490564-divorces-skyrocket-in-china-amid-lockdown

[Scatcat]

9 hours ago, Unventor said:

I can only say one thing. I feel with you, that is not the same as I claim I know how it feel.

I am so fortunate to live in an area where government have posted economic aid packages trying to support and boost companies that got the carpet drawn away under their feet.

Starting this week I am going from a 5 day a week shift to a 4 day a week shift. 20% down in time, but only taking a 4% pay cut. Government will reimburse company for pay and some social tax fees. So company saves about 36% of my employe costs. This is temporarily until mid summer time. But could go on the rest of the year potentiality.

This is tier 1 of 20%. There is a year 2 and 3 too, 40% down in time at 6% pay cut and 60% down in time at 7.5% pay cut.

It is not as much we have less to do at work, but more we are not selling as much as before the outbreak. 

I consider myself lucky not to be more impacted yet by the virus directly. 

We are not on hard lockdown yet here in Sweden. But I have been working from home 3 weeks now. And it seems to go on for a longer time.

I am glad I don't have to make your decisions and balance between protecting the company and the future or your employees. 

I'm more than lucky so far. My work allows me to work 100% from home, and so far business is not affected at all. So for the moment my biggest problem is missing my 5K screen at work, having to do with the laptop screen and a single 1080p external screen... I think I can live with that.

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Scatcat said:

I'm more than lucky so far. My work allows me to work 100% from home, and so far business is not affected at all. So for the moment my biggest problem is missing my 5K screen at work, having to do with the laptop screen and a single 1080p external screen... I think I can live with that.

I don't think we are going to do this very long, as our customer queue in our team is growing already now. And with Easter coming it will only get bigger. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Unventor
Tried to explain more.

[atdlzpae]

@Unventor Is "out queue" a code word for layoffs? If not I didn't understand you.

 

British Prime Minister (Boris Johnson) is on oxygen.

Edited April 6, 2020 by atdlzpae