Wuhan Coronavirus - are you prepared?

[travsformation]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

I’m not going provide any links.. Watch the president do his briefing this afternoon.

When get sick, I go to the doctor; to get a cavity filled I go to the dentist; when my car breaks down, I take it to the mechanic's; for financial issues, I have a financial adviser. I tend to consult experts in their respective fields. So logically, for a pandemic, I trust an epidemiologist's criteria over a politician's, and Fauci's over Trump's...

I'd rather not politicize this post, so all I'll say is that when experts worldwide are in agreement about the risks the coronavirus poses, I think it's worth listening to them. For the life of me, I can't see what they (medical experts) stand to gain by causing unjustified panic or negatively affecting the economy. Remember that doctors (the ones you're mistrustful of) are the ones who are the most exposed, at the highest risk, working 12 and 16h shifts in many places. What do they gain from overblowing a situation that they're going to have to deal with? Moreover, the economic recession is going to negatively affect them too...

I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who are healthcare professionals and none of them had seen anything like this before. They're all over-worked, overwhelmed, and giving this their all despite the effects of exhaustion, fear, and watching patient after patient die, on a daily basis. This isn't (potentially biased) news, or data from a galaxy far, far away; this is first-hand information from people I know well and have talked to over the course of the past month. 154 medical professionals have been infected, 45' from where I live, in a small city of 40K inhabitants. More than 200 people have died there; 4,500 in Catalonia alone, which is about a fifth of the size of Florida; more then 16K in Spain, which is smaller than Texas...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that one starts to see things differently the closer it hits to home. It quits being an abstraction on can simply theorize about when it starts affecting people you actually know and care for. If I quit watching the news (not something I do much these days anyway), quit checking the data published by medical authorities, stopped listening to politicians (not something I'm too inclined to do either), and listened only to the advice given by people I know and respect, who are working in hospitals and dealing with this "bogus pandemic" on a daily basis, I'd do exactly what I'm doing right now: staying at home, staying safe, and preventing the spread of the virus. That's what they're begging everyone to do.

I really, really, really wish they were wrong, for all of our sake. Just like I wish those living in countries that haven't yet been hit as hard as we have would pay more attention and take whatever precautions are needed to prevent going down the same road we have...

[atdlzpae]

4 hours ago, Patton250 said:

However if you support politicians that are going to force me at gunpoint to stay home then we have a problem and I can assure you massive civil unrest is coming in the next month or so.

From what I read, only a few people here support such a thing. I also hate what the police is doing now.

4 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Another month of being shut down past May 1 will put us into a depression that will last years. It’s so serious now it’s really got me believing this is being done on purpose at this point.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

If the USD was on a gold standard, the upcoming depression would be short. The rate of debt would be much smaller, because it's not so easy to get into debt on a gold standard. The nonviable companies would bankrupt, the new ones would pop up on their place and we'd be on our merry way in a year.

With our current system... We were waiting for a "spark" of a major recession for a good 20 years. It was close in 2008, but not enough - the money printing was able to stop it.
I think that even if the Korona magically stopped tomorrow, the damage is done and there will be a multi-year recession.

Edited April 11, 2020 by atdlzpae

[Patton250]

3 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

The death toll in America now way exceeds the death toll in China (or any other country). Just in New York alone the death toll already exceeds 9/11. Sadly, because you're not universally implementing restrictions, the death toll will continue to rise higher and higher. When the number of serious cases gets higher than the number of available ventilators then every new serious case will die. I kind of agree with your wife but, rather than exposing everyone else to the virus, why don't you volunteer at a hospital?

You really should probably start to pay attention more. Our genius doctors and the universities have significantly reduced the amount of projected deaths from COVID-19 to between 31,000 and 60,000. Sorry if I’m the first person to inform you of this. And if you trust the numbers out of China then I have some oceanfront property for you in Arizona I’d like to sell you.

[Patton250]

24 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

From what I read, only a few people here support such a thing. I also hate what the police is doing now.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

If the USD was on a gold standard, the upcoming depression would be short. The rate of debt would be much smaller, because it's not so easy to get into debt on a gold standard. The nonviable companies would bankrupt, the new ones would pop up on their place and we'd be on our merry way in a year.

With our current system... We were waiting for a "spark" of a major recession for a good 20 years. It was close in 2008, but not enough - the money printing was able to stop it.
I think that even if the Korona magically stopped tomorrow, the damage is done and there will be a multi-year recession.

Stupidity= A person or people that disagree with atslzpae 

 

Well the United States is the gold standard for freedom and economics.  I wouldn’t be so quick to count the United States out either. If we can finally end this nonsense we will come out of this just fine. Our economy and its fundamentals are basically still strong we just need to open back up. 

[Patton250]

31 minutes ago, travsformation said:

When get sick, I go to the doctor; to get a cavity filled I go to the dentist; when my car breaks down, I take it to the mechanic's; for financial issues, I have a financial adviser. I tend to consult experts in their respective fields. So logically, for a pandemic, I trust an epidemiologist's criteria over a politician's, and Fauci's over Trump's...

I'd rather not politicize this post, so all I'll say is that when experts worldwide are in agreement about the risks the coronavirus poses, I think it's worth listening to them. For the life of me, I can't see what they (medical experts) stand to gain by causing unjustified panic or negatively affecting the economy. Remember that doctors (the ones you're mistrustful of) are the ones who are the most exposed, at the highest risk, working 12 and 16h shifts in many places. What do they gain from overblowing a situation that they're going to have to deal with? Moreover, the economic recession is going to negatively affect them too...

I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who are healthcare professionals and none of them had seen anything like this before. They're all over-worked, overwhelmed, and giving this their all despite the effects of exhaustion, fear, and watching patient after patient die, on a daily basis. This isn't (potentially biased) news, or data from a galaxy far, far away; this is first-hand information from people I know well and have talked to over the course of the past month. 154 medical professionals have been infected, 45' from where I live, in a small city of 40K inhabitants. More than 200 people have died there; 4,500 in Catalonia alone, which is about a fifth of the size of Florida; more then 16K in Spain, which is smaller than Texas...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that one starts to see things differently the closer it hits to home. It quits being an abstraction on can simply theorize about when it starts affecting people you actually know and care for. If I quit watching the news (not something I do much these days anyway), quit checking the data published by medical authorities, stopped listening to politicians (not something I'm too inclined to do either), and listened only to the advice given by people I know and respect, who are working in hospitals and dealing with this "bogus pandemic" on a daily basis, I'd do exactly what I'm doing right now: staying at home, staying safe, and preventing the spread of the virus. That's what they're begging everyone to do.

I really, really, really wish they were wrong, for all of our sake. Just like I wish those living in countries that haven't yet been hit as hard as we have would pay more attention and take whatever precautions are needed to prevent going down the same road we have...

I basically just read your first paragraph. I won’t be consulting President Trump either when it comes to diseases. He never claimed to be an expert on that. He’s an expert on the economy and has proven that. I listen to what Dr. Fauci or who I now refer to as Dr. doom and he turned out to be incredibly remarkably wrong. In being wrong he has basically brought the greatest economy that has ever existed on the face of the earth to a complete halt and that has punished millions and millions of people. If you wish to continue to listen to him that’s your problem. I support your right to do that. I also support your right to stay home and not leave your house. I won’t be coming there and forcing you to go outside. So long as you don’t force me to stay inside my house and allow those who wish to work to do so then we will get along just fine. It’s time to go back to work. 

[Gasmantle]

I'm in the UK, it's not a police state (yet).

I live in a village with few people, if I want to go out on my own and pitch a tent on a nearby moor then I'll do it.

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Gasmantle

[travsformation]

9 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I basically just read your first paragraph. [...] I won’t be coming there and forcing you to go outside. So long as you don’t force me to stay inside my house and allow those who wish to work to do so then we will get along just fine.

Fine with me... 

 

 

[mike_bike_kite]

13 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

You really should probably start to pay attention more. Our genius doctors and the universities have significantly reduced the amount of projected deaths from COVID-19 to between 31,000 and 60,000. Sorry if I’m the first person to inform you of this. And if you trust the numbers out of China then I have some oceanfront property for you in Arizona I’d like to sell you.

America already has 20,000 dead from the virus and it's only just started to spread over there. At the moment you're getting around 2,000 deaths per day but that number is likely to double by the end of the week. I expect you'll hit the lower number of projected deaths by Wednesday next week and the higher number by the end of the following week. Because of Florida's age demographic then it's likely to hit quite hard there. Have you signed up at the hospital yet?

PS I don't trust the numbers from China but really all you're arguing about is whether the US is in 1st or 2nd place for deaths from Covid-19. 

[travsformation]

18 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I basically just read your first paragraph. I listen to what Dr. Fauci or who I now refer to as Dr. doom and he turned out to be incredibly remarkably wrong. 

I so, so, so wish you were right... 

For further reference, at least my 3rd paragraph and the 1st two sentences of the 4th... 

[Patton250]

1 minute ago, travsformation said:

I so, so, so wish you were right... 

For further reference, at least my 3rd paragraph and the 1st two sentences of the 4th... 

So what you’re basically saying is you think them adjusting the statistics is wrong? You’re sticking with the 2.4 million dead Americans scenario?

[Patton250]

1 minute ago, Gasmantle said:

That national debt is 'make believe' to prop up a capitalist economy.

The 'debt' is fiat money that doesn't exist.

Whilst I realise this crisis is serious I do hope the world economy collapses to the point that it needs to be re-booted.

Great point. It’s not like they’ll be millions of people dying and suffering if the world economy crashes. But then again Bill Gates hopes we get down to 1 billion people on the earth so crashing the world economy might help us on our way right?

[atdlzpae]

7 hours ago, travsformation said:

Great news! Now it's just a matter of keeping it up and resisting the urge to go outdoors despite the spring weather...

Why? Just don't ride into crowds and you'll be fine. Or fined if you meet the police...

[Patton250]

5 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

I also hope for a collapse of economy and I'm fairly certain we'll get it. Thankfully hoping for something doesn't make it happen, so I don't think it's in any way immoral.

Without the collapse we won't go back to true capitalism and the happy printing and borrowing will continue.

Ok. I’m done here. I’ll see you guys on the other boards to talk about EUC’s 

[atdlzpae]

@Patton250 I think I understand you. You're in a similar situation to most people: You lost a lot and you're looking for hope.
Unfortunately, I can't give you hope without lying. The situation is almost certainly gonna get worse.

I doubt there is anything in 401k that can protect you against the virus/depression... Maybe gold ETF's? But even those aren't guaranteed to get bankrupt...

[Toshio Uemura]

On 4/9/2020 at 10:18 PM, travsformation said:

So, there's a slight chance it just might be propaganda...  

That was my impression too. Thank you for the thorough review and external source information.  👍 

[Toshio Uemura]

12 hours ago, travsformation said:

Imagine what would happen if self-isolation and social distancing were left to people's own judgement and sense of social responsibility... 

I am afraid here in Japan it is left to people‘s own judgment. AND OF COURSE THAT DOES NOT WORK!

Karuizawa, a mountainous area long known as a fashionable weekend retreat, has already seen a rise in cars with Tokyo-area number plates, according to local media, particularly on the two weekends since Tokyo’s governor asked people to stay home. 

Officials have warned against leaving, saying it could burden already-strained local medical systems. 

“That will just scatter it (the virus) everywhere,” said Nobuhiko Okabe, member of a government panel of coronavirus experts, told reporters on Tuesday. “I call on people to endure inconvenience. We should not be hasty about leaving.”

(source: Reuters, 

JAPAN

APRIL 7, 2020 / 1:03 PM / 5 DAYS AGO

'Escape from Tokyo' hot topic in Japan as state of emergency looms)

[LanghamP]

This reduction to aid to airlines is interesting because it means the US has finally decided to pick winners.

Now since the last time the airline industry was bailed out, they spent a total of 48 billion dollars in stock buybacks. Since the original request was for 50 billion, upon which they must layoff employees if less, that means every penny of profit airlines made was spent on buybacks. Layoffs is what happens when you don't have even a small cash reserve.

Why give airline companies any money at all if they're just going to spend it on stock buybacks? You could just give the money directly to the stock owners and save everyone aggravation.

[travsformation]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

This reduction to aid to airlines is interesting because it means the US has finally decided to pick winners.

Now since the last time the airline industry was bailed out, they spent a total of 48 billion dollars in stock buybacks. Since the original request was for 50 billion, upon which they must layoff employees if less, that means every penny of profit airlines made was spent on buybacks. Layoffs is what happens when you don't have even a small cash reserve.

Why give airline companies any money at all if they're just going to spend it on stock buybacks? You could just give the money directly to the stock owners and save everyone aggravation.

Same ol' transfer of wealth that comes with every crisis... 

[travsformation]

And now, for something completely different...

 

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, travsformation said:

Same ol' transfer of wealth that comes with every crisis... 

Shrug.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/airlines-and-boeing-want-a-bailout-but-look-how-much-theyve-spent-on-stock-buybacks-2020-03-18

As a group, the six airlines spent 96% of their free cash flow on stock buybacks over the past 10 full years through 2019.

We have to let all the airlines fail because they choose to be insolvent. Let them all fail now rather than six months later. Do you really want to give them another 50 billion after September?

[atdlzpae]

This lockdown is great for health. I already lost 5kg, just because I buy chocolate and Cola every three days instead of one.

[travsformation]

1 hour ago, atdlzpae said:

This lockdown is great for health. I already lost 5kg, just because I buy chocolate and Cola every three days instead of one.

Other way around for me...cooking more, eating more, getting less exercise... 

[Grumly]

That would be some kind if irony if the lockdown inflates (no pun intended) the overweight and under-exercised population, who is indeed more vulnerable to respiratory diseases...

As long as we have bbq, beer and cake, why worry :-)

...

I can't see my feet anymore !!! Damn I'm blind !!!

[Toshio Uemura]

 

All hail to EASTER chocolate bunnies!

Edited April 13, 2020 by Toshio Uemura

[Toshio Uemura]

Here is an interesting follow-up interview with the Korean virologists. In case you haven’t seen it. I consider it good information in contrast to the blame and panic journalism that is all around:

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by travsformation
Fixed Youtube embed link