How to ride an electric unicycle - understanding the dynamics

[Smoother]

6 hours ago, Yunicycle said:

Maybe try a baby stroller?

Maybe leave the baby at home! Just sayin' 

[StevenF]

Hey everyone, I read this thread and watched some video's about how to learn to ride an electric unicycle before I tried riding mine. I ended up taking it outside and just tried it. I managed to do it quite fast but the first day I had to stop after 15minutes because I really hurt the inside of my ankle, I kept slamming my ankle into the pedal when I tried to hop on :-)

So the second day I wore some hiking boots and after 3 minutes I was riding up and down the street. I guess my experience is that good boots are more important than a helmet when learning to ride! I never saw or read about this so decided to share.

[stephen]

4 hours ago, StevenF said:

Hey everyone, I read this thread and watched some video's about how to learn to ride an electric unicycle before I tried riding mine. I ended up taking it outside and just tried it. I managed to do it quite fast but the first day I had to stop after 15minutes because I really hurt the inside of my ankle, I kept slamming my ankle into the pedal when I tried to hop on :-)

So the second day I wore some hiking boots and after 3 minutes I was riding up and down the street. I guess my experience is that good boots are more important than a helmet when learning to ride! I never saw or read about this so decided to share.

Always protect your bonce .sore ankles wont kill you but a sore head might.get both helmet first

Edited January 31, 2019 by stephen

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, StevenF said:

Hey everyone, I read this thread and watched some video's about how to learn to ride an electric unicycle before I tried riding mine. I ended up taking it outside and just tried it. I managed to do it quite fast but the first day I had to stop after 15minutes because I really hurt the inside of my ankle, I kept slamming my ankle into the pedal when I tried to hop on :-)

So the second day I wore some hiking boots and after 3 minutes I was riding up and down the street. I guess my experience is that good boots are more important than a helmet when learning to ride! I never saw or read about this so decided to share.

Well a sore ankle will heal. Yes most experience this duting learning.

Next up is wrists, it might seem unnecessary at first, but it is humanly natural response to embrace a fall with hands.

Head injuries, MIGHT be a different story.

One do not rule out the other. If you choose this mission, and keep on reading the forum, you find many that ignored protection and learn their lesson.

I can only suggest you take that onboard. And yes I had my accidents too. I eas geared up, at the time, but I found a few holes in my almost shining armor. The body, all of it is a fragile thing.

[StevenF]

I am not planning to ride it at speed without a helmet, it is just that when you start learning it you don't race it but are happy to stay upright at a low speed. The boots just ensured that I could try it for a longer period of time without hurting myself. Tonight I'll go for a longer "ride" and I'll wear everything I wear when I go inline skating, that should do it. 

Now just figuring out how to get rid of the "please decelerate" voice (KS 14S) and I'm good to go. 

[Smoother]

6 minutes ago, StevenF said:

Now just figuring out how to get rid of the "please decelerate" voice (KS 14S) and I'm good to go.

Turn off voice commands in the app

[StevenF]

3 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Turn off voice commands in the app

Thanks, I also had the feeling it auto-decelerated? Probably something I can change in the app too :-)

[Smoother]

2 minutes ago, StevenF said:

Thanks, I also had the feeling it auto-decelerated? Probably something I can change in the app too :-)

I'm not sure I'd ride a wheel that "auto-decelerated (not again anyway ) Is that the newest euphemism for a face plant.

"so I was out riding today and the wheel auto-decelerated me right onto my face" 

[US69]

33 minutes ago, StevenF said:

Thanks, I also had the feeling it auto-decelerated? Probably something I can change in the app too :-)

I guess you mean the Tiltback Lifting your feets?

You can set the Speed Alarms in the app….but third Alarm and tiltback can NOT be turned off. (When Voice = OFF then Alarm 1, 2 and 3 are Beeps...Alarm 1 and 2 you can turn the beeps off! When voice = ON, then the 3rd Alarm is "Please decelerate"...Alarm 1 and 2 are Always off, as they have no voice file )

[StevenF]

15 minutes ago, US69 said:

I guess you mean the Tiltback Lifting your feets?

You can set the Speed Alarms in the app….but third Alarm and tiltback can NOT be turned off. (When Voice = OFF then Alarm 1, 2 and 3 are Beeps...Alarm 1 and 2 you can turn the beeps off! When voice = ON, then the 3rd Alarm is "Please decelerate"...Alarm 1 and 2 are Always off, as they have no voice file )

Ok, but I think I set the machin in "learning" mode, maybe in a different mode the 3rd alarm will only kick in at a higher speed? I wasn't going fast at all, maybe 10mph.

[US69]

57 minutes ago, StevenF said:

Ok, but I think I set the machin in "learning" mode, maybe in a different mode the 3rd alarm will only kick in at a higher speed? I wasn't going fast at all, maybe 10mph.

Whatever the mode is…..the Alarms only have one Setting. So it is the same over all ride modes. But who knows how your Alarms are set up?

Standard Settings on a new Wheel are 18 or 19kmh (11-12mph) for 3rd Alarm....so it is possible...

So i would advise to check and eventually Change thes Speed Settings to your likings. For example 0,0, 27, 30 (KmH)

When changing: The app must confirm the changes without saying "error"...and the Wheel has actually to make a "Beep" when the Speed Settings are changed.

When the Wheel does not Beep...the Speed Settings have not been changed!

 

[Smoother]

1 hour ago, StevenF said:

Ok, but I think I set the machin in "learning" mode, maybe in a different mode the 3rd alarm will only kick in at a higher speed? I wasn't going fast at all, maybe 10mph.

Is it possible this wheel is new and therefor has a locked top speed until the appropriate kms are ridden, or unlocked with a special code?

[StevenF]

The wheel was indeed locked. It is a KS 14S and it took me a long time to get it sorted  (how bad is the app? ). But now I can do 30 instead of the 20 which is just too slow. And now I want a faster one, after one week of riding. But in general a top speed of 30 is good enough, for some stretches it would be nice to go faster. 

Still learning how to tackle hopping on sidewalks, practice makes perfect I guess :-)

[Mono]

6 minutes ago, StevenF said:

The wheel was indeed locked. It is a KS 14S and it took me a long time to get it sorted  (how bad is the app? ). But now I can do 30 instead of the 20 which is just too slow. And now I want a faster one, after one week of riding. But in general a top speed of 30 is good enough, for some stretches it would be nice to go faster. 

I am quite concerned about your health, as staying on an EUC in difficult riding situations is a skill you are not likely to have after a week or even a month or two. Going down at 30km/h is not a gimmick at all and can lead to severe injuries much more likely than at 20km/h. Apart from being illegal, I can only strongly recommend not going that fast before to have ridden a few thousand of kilometers. Of course I can't make life choices for others.

[meepmeepmayer]

You're ready to go a certain speed when you feel comfortable doing so. So if 30 doesn't feel too fast, it isn't Just don't overdo it. Your first "real" fall should be at a lower speed ideally, so you get grounded by reality without serious consequences.

You do need protection, though. Abrasion and more powerful impacts get really bad with rising speed. Your hands and face are very delicate body parts that are easy to fuck up for forever. Good sliding wrist guards, knee pads, a helmet should be a minimum at higher speeds.

And be aware, 30 is too slow for "good enough for me" for most people. 35 at least for a 16+ inch wheel (probably more like 40 on an 18 incher, but they do that anyways.

[winterwheel]

On 1/19/2019 at 6:12 PM, KeithM said:

Thanks very much for the replies on my shopping cart question.

We use a walker modified to have four wheels for getting people started, as seen here:

It works very well but we have to tell people to slow down, they quite often want to go faster and faster before they have learned to do anything at all on the wheel. The only drawback is, well, it's a walker, and associated with old and decrepit. For this reason we will paint some racing stripes on it (or do some other aesthetic mods) for sessions this year.

[duckylam]

Took my unicycle out for a ride last weekend and it was fine until I went downhill and got the speed wobbles.  I managed slowed down to about 10 mph but it got progressively worse  until it thew me off.  Got myself some road rash.  Any suggestions on how to avoid the wobbles?

[Mono]

23 minutes ago, duckylam said:

Took my unicycle out for a ride last weekend and it was fine until I went downhill and got the speed wobbles.  I managed slowed down to about 10 mph but it got progressively worse  until it thew me off.  Got myself some road rash.  Any suggestions on how to avoid the wobbles?

With all likelihood they will go away with experience and the respective change of body tension. Before that, increase speed only slowly and don't increase it beyond the point of confidence or of experiencing the wobbles.

[seage]

I've never experienced speed wobble before. Is that something that is going to happen regardless? I got it once for a few moments while longboarding one time, but carved out of it. On the EUC, im pretty cautious with how I accelerate and slow down and try to keep my legs loose. Would this looser stance add to the likelyhood of me getting speed wobbles in the future? Right now my wheel is still locked to 20kmph for another 100km. So maybe im just not fast enough to deal with that nightmare yet?

[stephen]

5 hours ago, duckylam said:

Took my unicycle out for a ride last weekend and it was fine until I went downhill and got the speed wobbles.  I managed slowed down to about 10 mph but it got progressively worse  until it thew me off.  Got myself some road rash.  Any suggestions on how to avoid the wobbles?

Which wheel have you got ? I had the wobbles on my Z10 but it's new to me and only happened once when i had to emergency brake,

5 hours ago, Mono said:

Any suggestions on how to avoid the wobbles?

Practice braking hard get your legs and brain used to it for when you need it. Different tyre pressure changes the wobbles to , 

 

5 hours ago, duckylam said:

Got myself some road rash.

Can avoid this to ,, yes you guessed it ,,,,,safety gear

Edited March 5, 2019 by stephen

[travsformation]

8 hours ago, seage said:

I've never experienced speed wobble before. Is that something that is going to happen regardless?

Hard to say, depends on a ton of factors (rider, wheel, etc.). I never got speed wobbles on the V8, the only wobbles were when going down very steep hills (feet positioning solved that). 

On the 18XL, I do get them. For now I push the envelope from time to time to force them upon myself and learn to deal with them. Sometimes I try to relax, sometimes I carve, sometimes I grip the wheel and sometimes I chicken out and slow down. I'm guessing time and miles will sort that out. 

So upgrading to a new, bigger and heavier wheel can cause speed wobbles (for some people). All the same, I just see it as part of the process. As long as one is cautious, doesn't push it beyond his skill level / comfort zone / running speed (and gears up properly!),  it shouldn't be too much of an issue. Or at least, that's my experience.

And when I'm doubt, ask the community  (preferably after having slowed down and stepped off your wheel) 

[Smoother]

On 3/5/2019 at 1:13 AM, duckylam said:

Took my unicycle out for a ride last weekend and it was fine until I went downhill and got the speed wobbles.  I managed slowed down to about 10 mph but it got progressively worse  until it thew me off.  Got myself some road rash.  Any suggestions on how to avoid the wobbles?

Firstly, don't accelerate just because you are going down hill, because you have to work that much harder to brake from a higher speed AND going down hill.  Secondly, wobbles while braking is a common problem because of the changed castor relationship between the contact patch of the tyre and where your weight is (significantly behind that point).  So your body weight is effectively pushing the wheel in front of you. If you try to push a castoring wheel like on the front of a grocery cart, it will soon turn it's self around, to its stable state.  This is effectively what your wheel is trying to do.  Castors don't like to be pushed, they like to be pulled.  Braking increases the reverse castor, and braking down hill increases it still further.  You wobble because the wheel is trying to turn itself around but your feet wont let it, so it tries on the other side, but your feet prevent that too.  So on it goes, back and forth; wheel hunting for a way to flip around, and your feet trying to prevent it.  Often with ever increasing amplitude. In your case, the wheel won.

Try this:  Before the hill begins, shift one of your feet back on the pedal 1 or 2 inches.  You will use this foot to brake.  This asymmetric force might also reduce or eliminate the constant hunting by the wheel, as you have picked a side for it; your job is just to prevent it flipping.  Ask @houseofjob for a link to his asymmetric braking explanation

Lastly, don't take your uncle for a ride, let him ride his own wheel.

Oh Yeah,Get some safety gear! No one knows when they are going to wipe out.  That's why they are called accidents, and not scheduled events.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Smoother

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

Secondly, wobbles while braking is a common problem because of the changed castor relationship between the contact patch of the tyre and where your weight is (significantly behind that point).  So your body weight is effectively pushing the wheel in front of you. If you try to push a castoring wheel like on the front of a grocery cart, it will soon turn it's self around, to its stable state.  This is effectively what your wheel is trying to do.  Castors don't like to be pushed, they like to be pulled.  Braking increases the reverse castor, and braking down hill increases it still further.  You wobble because the wheel is trying to turn itself around but your feet wont let it, so it tries on the other side, but your feet prevent that too.  So on it goes, back and forth; wheel hunting for a way to flip around, and your feet trying to prevent it.  Often with ever increasing amplitude. In your case, the wheel won.

I don't think it (directly) has anything to do with your weight in front of or behind the wheel. Otherwise, according to this logic, speeding up would get rid of wobbling. Not sure that that would work (has anybody tried accelerating like a madman to get out of a wobble?).

Wobbling is roll (sideways/left-right oscillation), not yaw (the wheel trying to do a curve). People don't lose control of direction in wobbles, do they? They just have trouble keeping the wheel upright in the left/right direction.

Wobbles while braking can be better explained by the fact that you're simply less relaxed and more tense on the wheel while you brake (because your leg muscles are strained because they need to push harder against the wheel than when simply standing on it at constant speed).

Edited March 5, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Lutalo]

Try spreading your feet apart more o. The foot platforms. Give the wheel some room to dance a little. When the the wheel oscillates right go with it; surf it. Spreading your feet on the platforms opens up room for a little surfing.  With legs clamped on the wheel the fatigued and vibrating soleus gastrocnemious (SG) only amplifies the wheel's oscillations; similar to how a Congo drum repels your hand when you tense it and spank the surface hide. Your SGs (calves) are the drum surface and the wheel is the ✋ smacking against it. The SGs tend to fatigue pretty quickly when the rider's foot is positioned too far to the rear on the platform.

Spreading the feet apart eliminates wheel clutching. Moving the foot more forward reduces the pressure on the calves; reducing fatigue which in turn reduces wobbles. 

You might need to retrain yourself a little to get used to riding with your feet further apart and slightly forward on the platforms. Try it. See how you like it. 

[Smoother]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I don't think it (directly) has anything to do with your weight in front of or behind the wheel. Otherwise, according to this logic, speeding up would get rid of wobbling. Not sure that that would work (has anybody tried accelerating like a madman to get out of a wobble?).

Wobbling is roll (sideways/left-right oscillation), not yaw (the wheel trying to do a curve). People don't lose control of direction in wobbles, do they? They just have trouble keeping the wheel upright in the left/right direction.

Wobbles while braking can be better explained by the fact that you're simply less relaxed and more tense on the wheel while you brake (because your leg muscles are strained because they need to push harder against the wheel than when simply standing on it at constant speed).

Its a complex issue, granted. But answer this: if wobbles are simply a matter of a strict side to side wobble then how come no one can eliminate it simply by clamping the wheel tightly between the calves?  Try it.  see if you can kill a wobble by changing nothing other than clamping the wheel tightly.  I would bet you can't. Why? because the wheel is a spinning device and there are various laws of physics at play, gyroscopic precession for one.  Tip a spinning wheel side to side and it WILL turn.  It has to. The laws of gyroscopic precession spell it out clearly.  I put a video up here once showing that, but you tube is loaded with scientific explanations.  How all these forces interact with each other is difficult to determine. I don't know why clamping doesn't eliminate wobble.  I get wobbles climbing hills at speed, I believe this is also because the contact patch of the tyre (far in front this time) is a long way from the rider's center of force.  The further apart these two point get, the less stable the ride.

"People don't lose control of direction in wobbles, " precisely because it IS a wobble, every change of direction of the wobble cancels out any direction change of the previous cycle of the wobble. 

"speeding up" does not get rid of wobble because you have separated tyre contact patch and rider's center of effort, only this time the other way around.

 

EDIT: try this experiment:  place your feet several cm behind your usual position, then ride around, make some turns, etc.  Does it feel stable of does it feel twitchy?  No?.  Move them further back and try again.  At some point the behavior of the wheel will be very strange and dangerous.  I'm not sure anyone without extra long pedals could repeat the experiment by placing the feet unusually forward.  I have such pedals.  Maybe I'll try it.  But not this week, the weathers, fixing to go to shet.

Moving the riders centre of effort away from the centre of resistance (contact patch) causes instability.  This is exactly how to steer a sailboard; move the center of effort (the sail) behind or in front of the centre of resistance (the centerboard) causes a change of direction.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Smoother