How to ride an electric unicycle - understanding the dynamics

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Slaughthammer said:

No pain, no gain. Sorry to disappoint, but that's just physics working. Your lower leg will eventually get used to it over time. Or buy a KS18. The higher the body of the wheel, the lower the sideways pressure on your leg while riding one footed. 

I learned one footed riding by learning a rolling start and then got slower and slower at putting the second foot on the pedals, until I was riding one footed for some significant distance

Or buy an MSuper V3  It's also easier on the legs.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

4 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Just going up a hill that keeps on going, at a constant speed. Not trying to go as fast as possible. Doesn't stuff get hot because of this?

I guess it depends on how steep and long the hill climb is and what your wheel is capable of.  Marty and Sven (Andy) went up that really steep climb, and I don't think they were riding recklessly.  Marty's wiring ended up melting and shorting out without any warnings whereas Sven's Monster gave him some temperature warning beeps.  I think part of the problem may be that the temperature reading is taken from the MPU rather than the MOSFETs / wiring area so the MPU might be fine temperature-wise while the other spots might be reaching critical temperatures. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Christoph Zens]

21 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I think part of the problem may be that the temperature reading is taken from the MPU rather than the MOSFETs / wiring area so the MPU might be fine temperature-wise while the other spots might be reaching critical temperatures. 

That's probably true for most of the older wheels. However, the KS16S measures temperature right at the MOSFETs. The small black component RTH1 is an NTC (used to measure temperature).

The other day, I was again wondering what the reasoning behind the fuses may be, and I came up with yet another explanation: Maybe KS thinks it's better to blow a fuse and let the wheel spin out freely (without any power supply), than to blow a MOSFET and have the wheel lock up instantly due to the short created by the blown FET. Depending on speed, it may be possible to run off a wheel that stops balancing but keeps rolling, but the rider will faceplant for sure if the wheel locks up, resulting in much more severe injuries.

[ir_fuel]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Didn't you just say in another thread that you best not look at a watch for fear of crashing? In my opinion I wouldn't tackle riding backwards until you can ride forwards without having to think or worry about anything.

 

Honestly, I don't see why as clearly both skills are completely unrelated (shown by the amount of people that can ride forwards for hours but not backwards for 3 seconds). Better get it in the skillset while everything is still "fresh" and "complicated". It's only 20 minutes a day anyway, and it's just an extra thing to do.

[ir_fuel]

1 hour ago, Slaughthammer said:

I learned one footed riding by learning a rolling start and then got slower and slower at putting the second foot on the pedals, until I was riding one footed for some significant distance

Good idea. I can do rolling starts. Will try doing that.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

1 hour ago, Christoph Zens said:

That's probably true for most of the older wheels. However, the KS16S measures temperature right at the MOSFETs. The small black component RTH1 is an NTC (used to measure temperature).

The other day, I was again wondering what the reasoning behind the fuses may be, and I came up with yet another explanation: Maybe KS thinks it's better to blow a fuse and let the wheel spin out freely (without any power supply), than to blow a MOSFET and have the wheel lock up instantly due to the short created by the blown FET. Depending on speed, it may be possible to run off a wheel that stops balancing but keeps rolling, but the rider will faceplant for sure if the wheel locks up, resulting in much more severe injuries.

Good catch!  I actually remember seeing that photo and the temperature sensor that was mentioned there.  If Gotway were to do that I bet they could give the rider warnings a lot sooner before meltdown occurs.  The devil is in the details, isn't it?

I've always thought that the fuses were to help protect the control boards when a certain ceiling is hit to avoid needing to replace them.  If it's going to happen, it's better to happen to a replaceable fuse than a pricey control board any day.  The wheel lockup avoidance certainly is another plausible reason.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[applecran]

I just received my new Msuper V3s 1600.  My first wheel I got about 5 weeks ago is Segway One S1.  

 

These two wheels are so different, riding the M3 gives me appreciation for both wheels, but I feel I need to ride them both so differently.  I'm pretty comfortable on the S1 now, I can go offload, gravel, dirt over bumps whatever.  It's really nimble but not very stable, it tilts side to side a lot and you kind of leave your ankles loose and can quickly react to those changes in sideways forces. It's not great over bumps though. It's a very nimble fun wheel to ride for sure.  I've got about 200KM on that wheel and I don't really have to think about what I'm doing anymore.

 

I've got about 20KM on the Msuper after 3 days.  On paved surfaces this thing is very stable, it wants to stay up.  It may actually be easier to learn on this wheel it's that stable.  It's slower to react and takes more effort to make it change direction and speed.  Bumps are nothing to this wheel and when you get going you can really lean into the turns, the wheel just keeps you up.

I've played with the ride setting, and like the sport and medium the most, the soft really dips a lot!  I'm still working on getting the calibration just right though as I get some dipping that is unexpected, I may also calibrate it so it tilts back just slightly as I find going down hills and up hills i'm tilting forward a bit too much.

The biggest differences I've noticed are

1. Stance, to be comfortable on the Msuper, I feel I need to have my legs bent a lot more and I need to grip the wheel a bit more, maybe that will change as I get more used to it.  Still trying to get my foot placement figured out.Feel my toes are way too far forward (size 10 shoes)
2. Turning, it's very different to turn on this wheel.  It's almost more like skiing, I feel myself having the best luck turning my knee in and putting pressure on the wheel with my leg.  
3. loose surfaces / gravel.  I'm sure I just need to get used to it, but I found it way harder to control on the local trail I go on - lost it a few times.  It's packed with a bit of loose gravel over it.  On the Ninebot it's much easier / faster to correct for lateral slipping.  I'm sure I'll get better at this.
4. My legs.  I remember when first riding the Ninebot, my legs would get tired, that stopped after a few days.  My legs are exhausted after an hour on the Msuper - it just takes a lot more work to keep it going the way I want right now.

 

I'm also using a strap on my Msuper, it's got a lot more momentum given it's weight and sometimes jumping off it's just safer / easier to know I've got the strap then having to hope I can catch it before it takes someone out!

I'm curious what other folks who have smaller and larger wheels have found helps them adapt to the differences in the wheels.

Edited August 26, 2017 by applecran

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, applecran said:

I just received my new Msuper V3s 1600.  My first wheel I got about 5 weeks ago is Segway One S1.  

 

These two wheels are so different, riding the M3 gives me appreciation for both wheels, but I feel I need to ride them both so differently.  I'm pretty comfortable on the S1 now, I can go offload, gravel, dirt over bumps whatever.  It's really nimble but not very stable, it tilts side to side a lot and you kind of leave your ankles loose and can quickly react to those changes in sideways forces. It's not great over bumps though. It's a very nimble fun wheel to ride for sure.  I've got about 200KM on that wheel and I don't really have to think about what I'm doing anymore.

 

I've got about 20KM on the Msuper after 3 days.  On paved surfaces this thing is very stable, it wants to stay up.  It may actually be easier to learn on this wheel it's that stable.  It's slower to react and takes more effort to make it change direction and speed.  Bumps are nothing to this wheel and when you get going you can really lean into the turns, the wheel just keeps you up.

I've played with the ride setting, and like the sport and medium the most, the soft really dips a lot!  I'm still working on getting the calibration just right though as I get some dipping that is unexpected, I may also calibrate it so it tilts back just slightly as I find going down hills and up hills i'm tilting forward a bit too much.

The biggest differences I've noticed are

1. Stance, to be comfortable on the Msuper, I feel I need to have my legs bent a lot more and I need to grip the wheel a bit more, maybe that will change as I get more used to it.  Still trying to get my foot placement figured out.Feel my toes are way too far forward (size 10 shoes)
2. Turning, it's very different to turn on this wheel.  It's almost more like skiing, I feel myself having the best luck turning my knee in and putting pressure on the wheel with my leg.  
3. loose surfaces / gravel.  I'm sure I just need to get used to it, but I found it way harder to control on the local trail I go on - lost it a few times.  It's packed with a bit of loose gravel over it.  On the Ninebot it's much easier / faster to correct for lateral slipping.  I'm sure I'll get better at this.
4. My legs.  I remember when first riding the Ninebot, my legs would get tired, that stopped after a few days.  My legs are exhausted after an hour on the Msuper - it just takes a lot more work to keep it going the way I want right now.

 

I'm also using a strap on my Msuper, it's got a lot more momentum given it's weight and sometimes jumping off it's just safer / easier to know I've got the strap then having to hope I can catch it before it takes someone out!

I'm curious what other folks who have smaller and larger wheels have found helps them adapt to the differences in the wheels.

Nice summary. I think after you put a couple hundred kilometers on the MSuper your experience will be more positive. In general you are very new to EUC's so the differences may be more pronounced for you versus others.

[applecran]

9 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Nice summary. I think after you put a couple hundred kilometers on the MSuper your experience will be more positive. In general you are very new to EUC's so the differences may be more pronounced for you versus others.

Yeah for sure, I'm not worried and it's not really negative if that's how it came off, more just interesting to me the differences in the two sizes.

[yasbean]

Received my KS16S on Friday.  Friday evening, I was wobbling around the tennis courts, but did well enough to impress friends.  Saturday, went back and was cruising the courts.  Saturday evening, I was going up and down the streets in my community, and Sunday morning was even better.  After a long day of cleaning carpets, I decided to do one more session, just to help it sink in, but I was tired and cautious of my swollen shins.  Stepping on the right pedal, I went back and forth aq few times before trying to step up.  I fell to the right, heard and felt an ominous crack, and had the x-rays this afternoon: fractured foot bone.  Ugh!

[who_the]

7 minutes ago, yasbean said:

I fell to the right, heard and felt an ominous crack, and had the x-rays this afternoon: fractured foot bone.  Ugh!

Oh no! Very sorry to hear that, thoughts for a speedy recovery!

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, yasbean said:

Received my KS16S on Friday.  Friday evening, I was wobbling around the tennis courts, but did well enough to impress friends.  Saturday, went back and was cruising the courts.  Saturday evening, I was going up and down the streets in my community, and Sunday morning was even better.  After a long day of cleaning carpets, I decided to do one more session, just to help it sink in, but I was tired and cautious of my swollen shins.  Stepping on the right pedal, I went back and forth aq few times before trying to step up.  I fell to the right, heard and felt an ominous crack, and had the x-rays this afternoon: fractured foot bone.  Ugh!

Sorry to hear of your accident. I can imagine the frustration when things were going so well. Let this be a lesson for any other newbies who read this. During the learning stage, it's best to go slow and stay away from the wheel when the body is fatigued. There's a strong desire to push ahead (because it's so fun), but ultimately there are no shortcuts. It takes awhile for the body to adjust to the new uses that your muscles are being applied to.

Here's to a fast recovery 

[meepmeepmayer]

Ouch! And you were a fast leaner! Now you have to wait

What bone did you fracture/how did you fall?

[yasbean]

I was just stepping up on the left pedal, and I flipped the unicycle on the right (dominant) side with my foot underneath.  I broke the fifth metatarsal in my right foot.  I am now in a boot for a few months.  My biggest mistake, other than going out when I was tired and sore, was not wearing hiking boots.  I was wearing light sneakers, and I am sure a solid shoe would have helped.  Live and learn...

[ir_fuel]

How solid? You would need motorcycle boots to prevent this from happening.

[Allison Hadid]

Just remember that everybody that you see in videos zooming around and having fun went through the same, sometimes painful, learning curve that you are experiencing now.

 I kept a log book and it took about 10 hours of riding before things were really clicking and I was feeling totally comfortable.

Like anything worth having or accomplishing, you have to put in the time - there are no shortcuts. But it's worth it in the end 

[Marty Backe]

8 hours ago, Allison Hadid said:

Just remember that everybody that you see in videos zooming around and having fun went through the same, sometimes painful, learning curve that you are experiencing now.

 I kept a log book and it took about 10 hours of riding before things were really clicking and I was feeling totally comfortable.

Like anything worth having or accomplishing, you have to put in the time - there are no shortcuts. But it's worth it in the end 

Hey, I wrote this. Are you taking plagiarizing me? 

[kasenutty]

LOL - Marty got GirlClone-Botted

[Stabio]

I read many of the comments as I have just bought a Ninebot One E+ from someone who just gave up. The first week I rode 1/2 metre back and forth in my hall. Just to get a feel. My daughter bounced off walls claiming my new wheel as her own.

Once I got on flat hard surface I was able to travel about 30m after about 10 minutes. I believe I will be confident after about 10 more rides because I can ride a regular unicycle badly. It took 40 hours of falling to get my first unicycle badge, 100m straight with some wobbles. My daughter made the badge.

The best advice I was given was do not rely on walls. Go straight and learn to balance. The brain needs to learn the skills. The brain produces neuron pathways after each practice. The more practice the better the brain understands but the information is limited to a nights sleep. Each night the brain puts the days information into the right spot. I believe quilting after a few successes is better than hours of failure. Short productive practice.  I believe learning a new skill such as unicycling should be limited to 15-60 minutes each day. Skipping days do not make a huge difference. I never had to relearn to ride a bicycle. I believe you need to give your brain time to put new information into the right box. I went one metre and fell for 30 hours on a regular unicycle then something clicked. Recently I took about 6 months off learning but I could quickly return to my past skills.

 

[ir_fuel]

Riding backwards is hard ... 

 

Been practicing it for a while now, and it takes a LOT longer than forwards. The hardest for me is the transition from forward to backward. I lose balance quite easily in the "full stop" phase. 1 out of 4 tries I actually manage to cover some distance, but I always end up riding in a circle, turning right. Pretty bizarre ...

And I have the exact opposite as when I was learning forwards. In the beginning I couldn't get speed because I couldn't lean correctly. Now it's the opposite. I have to hop off because I'm overleaning way too much to the back.

[steve454]

8 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Riding backwards is hard ... 

 

Been practicing it for a while now, and it takes a LOT longer than forwards. The hardest for me is the transition from forward to backward. I lose balance quite easily in the "full stop" phase. 1 out of 4 tries I actually manage to cover some distance, but I always end up riding in a circle, turning right. Pretty bizarre ...

And I have the exact opposite as when I was learning forwards. In the beginning I couldn't get speed because I couldn't lean correctly. Now it's the opposite. I have to hop off because I'm overleaning way too much to the back.

The same thing happened to me, sometimes I could start going backwards and would always turn to the right.  I only practiced 5-10 minutes out of each ride.  After many days, the transition point where the wheel stops got easier to balance and go backwards, and also I started going straighter.  Now it's fun to do because I have enough practice that it gets easier and easier.

Keep practicing a little every ride you take, it just takes time.  You are almost to the point where it starts getting easier.

Edited September 8, 2017 by steve454

[Mono]

It's no surprise that the forward-backward transition is difficult, as standing still is difficult, because in this situation there is no real effective way to regain balance when losing it. It helps to have in mind to stay precisely in balance before to come to the short hold.

[steve454]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

It's no surprise that the forward-backward transition is difficult, as standing still is difficult, because in this situation there is no real effective way to regain balance when losing it. It helps to have in mind to stay precisely in balance before to come to the short hold.

Exactly right, you eventually feel that balance at the short hold much better.  It was your advice some months ago to practice going back a little each time a stop is made that helped me a lot when I first started learning.

[HermanTheGerman]

On 9/8/2017 at 9:35 PM, Mono said:

... as standing still is difficult, because in this situation there is no real effective way to regain balance when losing it.

Oh there is an effective way.

Just grab the wheel tightly between your feet and jump sideways with it. Especially with a KS18 or one of the big Gotways thats rather cool.

[ir_fuel]

On 08/09/2017 at 9:19 PM, steve454 said:

The same thing happened to me, sometimes I could start going backwards and would always turn to the right.  I only practiced 5-10 minutes out of each ride.  After many days, the transition point where the wheel stops got easier to balance and go backwards, and also I started going straighter.  Now it's fun to do because I have enough practice that it gets easier and easier.

Keep practicing a little every ride you take, it just takes time.  You are almost to the point where it starts getting easier.

I also started doing forward start/stop/start/stop to get the feeling of balancing when standing still.

Managed to do a couple of forward/stop/backward/stop/forward sequences, so we make progress, but I still lack directional control when going backwards.

Practice makes perfect