travsformation Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said: You are clear. Knee first. Here is a video of Fantomas showing how to fall at speed. Barely any damage from a 50mph fall. Although I agree about the knee-first approach, I'm not too sure that video is the best example, I get the impression he actually did try to put that second foot on the ground but didn't manage. His left knee folding was inevitable at that speed. Whether the lateral twist that precedes the roll was intentional or the result of inertia, I don't know, but he definitely knows how to roll (arms tucked in, head (mostly) away from the asphalt...just look at how he saves his phone, he obviously knows what he's doing) As an example of letting the knees take the hit, I find this video of Chooch's much more instructive. You can clearly see the intent behind his reaction, in how he initially raises his arms upward and to the sides so they don't end up taking the impact (seems like he consciously fights the reflex to throw his arms in front of himself), lets his knee-pads take the hit, then only briefly "taps" the ground (quickly removing his hand) to counteract the friction on his knee-pads and avoid falling forward, then shifts his weight backwards so he can slide it off without having to worry about faceplanting (in such a controlled manner that he's actually turning around, looking out for the bouncing wheel while he's still sliding). If you watch it in 0.25 speed it's even more apparent. A perfectly executed, 10/10 example of how to fall properly in my book, and by how it goes down, I get the impression this is an acquired reaction that's become second nature (from someone who's no stranger to falls): P.S. I'm not saying Fantomas doesn't know how to fall (' he clearly does), that there was no intent behind how he did so (maybe I'm wrong and it was more controlled that it seems to me), or that these falls are even comparable (speed being a key factor), just that Chooch's video provides a much clearer example of how to minimize the risk of injury by sliding on both knees (no upper body hitting or sliding along the ground, no rolling, no legs thrashing around like a rag doll, no potential back injuries from twisting while rolling, no elbows hitting the pavement, and even more importantly, his head/helmet never even gets near the ground). If only we could fall like that in every scenario... Edited June 12, 2020 by travsformation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, travsformation said: Although I agree about the knee-first approach, I'm not too sure that video is the best example, I get the impression he actually did try to put that second foot on the ground but didn't manage. His left knee folding was inevitable at that speed. Whether the lateral twist that precedes the roll was intentional or the result of inertia, I don't know, but he definitely knows how to roll (arms tucked in, head (mostly) away from the asphalt...just look at how he saves his phone, he obviously knows what he's doing) As an example of letting the knees take the hit, I find this video of Chooch's much more instructive. You can clearly see the intent behind his reaction, in how he initially raises his arms upward and to the sides so they don't end up taking the impact (seems like he consciously fights the reflex to throw his arms in front of himself), lets his knee-pads take the hit, then only briefly "taps" the ground (quickly removing his hand) to counteract the friction on his knee-pads and avoid falling forward, then shifts his weight backwards so he can slide it off without having to worry about faceplanting (in such a controlled manner that he's actually turning around, looking out for the bouncing wheel while he's still sliding). If you watch it in 0.25 speed it's even more apparent. A perfectly executed, 10/10 example of how to fall properly in my book, and by how it goes down, I get the impression this is an acquired reaction that's become second nature (from someone who's no stranger to falls): P.S. I'm not saying Fantomas doesn't know how to fall (' he clearly does), that there was no intent behind how he did so (maybe I'm wrong and it was more controlled that it seems to me), or that these falls are even comparable (speed being a key factor), just that Chooch's video provides a much clearer example of how to minimize the risk of injury by sliding on both knees (no upper body hitting or sliding along the ground, no rolling, no legs thrashing around like a rag doll, no potential back injuries from twisting while rolling, no elbows hitting the pavement, and even more importantly, his head/helmet never even gets near the ground). If only we could fall like that in every scenario... Chooch fell at like 15mph. At high speeds, The inertia wouldn’t allow you to get both knees on the ground like that. Your body would never be able to remain vertical sliding on two knees at higher speeds Edited June 12, 2020 by Darrell Wesh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said: Chooch fell at like 15mph. At high speeds, The inertia wouldn’t allow you to get both knees on the ground like that. Your body would never be able to remain vertical sliding on two knees at higher speeds As I said, the falls aren't comparable, I was just using Chooch's video to illustrate the benefits of sliding it out on one's knees. This technique would probably work at higher speeds than this, since asphalt offers less friction; leaning as far back as possible from the start could possibly prevent (at these speeds) having to put one's hands on the ground altogether. Most riders (especially ones asking questions in "how to fall" threads) aren't going to be wiping out at 40+ mph, so I think this approach is worth taking into account. It's about fighting the reflex to try to run it out, and intentionally giving in instead, letting your legs buckle and your knees take the hit, which I think the example above does a great job of illustrating. It's also a very good example of that fact that certain counterproductive reflexes can be reprogrammed. But yeah, increase the speed and that can't be sustained. But I still think that it's worth taking into account, since the more kinetic energy is dissipated by the knees, the less is left for the rest of the body to absorb. Edited June 13, 2020 by travsformation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post travsformation Posted June 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) On 6/10/2020 at 7:06 PM, JustChris said: Thanks! CT acan showed no brain bleeding. I'm not really sure what happened. I was trying to ride up a very small curb (like a driveway gutter). There was grass beyond the curb, and somehow I went down almost instantly, flat on my back. I'm not sure if I just lost balance, or the wheel malfunctioned. Due to the concussion, my memory of the event is very confusing and missing sections. Bottom line, it knocked me silly. I kept asking what had happened, over and over, about 30 times. I also couldn't recall some recent major events in my life, which prompted others to call an ambulance. Edit: I just talked to a friend who witnessed the fall, and it appeared to them that there was a loss of lateral traction due to having misjudged a bump in the grass beyond the gutter. Glad you're OK! Comes to prove how important helmets are... Granted, wrists, elbows, shoulders are generally more likely to get injured, but you can recover from those injuries. With head trauma, it only takes one wrong fall and it's game over. And as your example proves, it doesn't have to be a dramatic high-speed crash, it can be the silliest and most unexpected thing, even at slow speeds. I was in my teens the day I decided a helmet was a must on every ride. I spent much of my childhood and teens pedaling up to the top of the mountain with my friends and zooming down, full-speed with that sense of invincibility you only have until a certain age. Never wore an ounce of gear---a helmet was out of the question. Really? My mom wanted me to be that guy? The one dork who wore a helmet? As far as i was concerned, she was just trying to humiliate me Had plenty of crashes and nothing but scrapes and bruises (To this day I'll never understand how I pulled that off). One day my I was headed to visit a friend who lived in the next town over, and put my helmet on just so my mom would quit nagging me. If I remember correctly, the only reason it stayed on after I was out of sight was because it was mid-summer and it was keeping the Spanish sun off my noggin. I wasn't being a daredevil, I wasn't riding fast (I had a bottle of vodka and a six-pack in my backpack and another six-pack in a shopping bag, hanging from the handlebar---the goods had to be protected at any cost!), and on a very easy-going path, the front wheel of my bicycle slid out from under me on a patch of loose gravel and before I had time to react, I was on the ground. Hit my head against the only large (and pointy) rock there was to be found in a 15 ft radius and split the (cheap MTB) helmet in half. No injuries sustained. I think that was my first born-again moment where I contemplated my own mortality for the first time. I celebrated by killing with beer & vodka the same amount of brain cells one might lose to a concussion, but the lesson stuck. Needless to say, I never told my mother about the incident, I told her I'd lost the helmet. Damned if I was going to admit the was right... Once again, glad your helmet saved the day! To helmets keeping our sorry asses safe from ourselves! Edited June 12, 2020 by travsformation 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenofnine Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) The only successful falls above 25 mph I've seen are fully geared up slide outs; elbow, wrist, and knee pads with hard body armor (and even then it was expected, some loss of balance/power felt beforehand). Using the first few steps to sort of superman your momentum into straight forward instead of into any type of roll or supposed parkour maneuver. If you try to formulate a roll in a split second you may end up slamming your head into the ground even harder and you will probably break a collar bone or shoulder focusing all that energy into one point of contact. Most cutouts happen near top speed (relative to battery level) when you try and accelerate hard near the top end, when you try and show off, or when your battery is old or not charged. We are lucky now that even companies like Gotway have tried and true models that almost always put these kind of crashes into the "user error" category. But still I urge everyone to not test the limits of your wheel, or at the very least don't try anything stupid or flashy near the top end of it's speed limit. I know that's half the fun of these wheels. but you may lose the ability to ride one altogether (or to walk, or speak, etc) Edited June 14, 2020 by tenofnine 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsnapper Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 I sometimes ride with a non full face helmet and when I look down at the pave zooming by I am often reminded of how poorly my face would react to that surface. Falls are so dynamic and unpredictable - don't see how you can realistically make provisions for minimising head injury risk no matter how much practice or falling technique you think you can work out. High friction coefficient surfaces - pave,cobblestones,interlocking bricks,etc - induce a rapid deceleration as your body makes contact thereby increasing the head slam effect. Gearing up surely minimises some risk but of course it is a pita to wear body armor when you want to ride. Ultimately EUC is meant to create joy in the rider (and confusion in the bystander- WTF???). I think the advice to be always vigilant and attentive while riding ( not on my phone! - guilty as charged...) and to avoid aggressive moves near top speed (where there is little motor reserve) are very wise and will go a long way to preventing needless falls... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.