Darkfire Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Hi. I have a ks18xl of 2019. In Spain with the new law, it is illegal to drive with this wheel, since it exceeds 25Km / h. I wanted to know if Kingsong would try to legalize the wheels already sold, that exceed that speed. Greetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOnWheels Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 48 minutes ago, Darkfire said: Hi. I have a ks18xl of 2019. In Spain with the new law, it is illegal to drive with this wheel, since it exceeds 25Km / h. I wanted to know if Kingsong would try to legalize the wheels already sold, that exceed that speed. Greetings. What if you setup a limit at 25km/h with KS app ? Who will test it ? Is police able to check the speed (actually use the wheel) ? What if you setup a password in the app ? Who can then test the real speed of your wheel and even connect with the app and change settings ? In France is also limited to 25km/h and we have 1 year to make our EUC compliant before it cost you 1500 Euros. I use my KS everyday to commute to my work place and I just setup an alert at 25 km/h, double beep at 30km/h and tilt-back at 35km/h... As far no one cares if i respect road signs, lights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkfire Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, TomOnWheels said: What if you setup a limit at 25km/h with KS app ? Who will test it ? Is police able to check the speed (actually use the wheel) ? What if you setup a password in the app ? Who can then test the real speed of your wheel and even connect with the app and change settings ? In France is also limited to 25km/h and we have 1 year to make our EUC compliant before it cost you 1500 Euros. I use my KS everyday to commute to my work place and I just setup an alert at 25 km/h, double beep at 30km/h and tilt-back at 35km/h... As far no one cares if i respect road signs, lights... in Spain they will require documents of technical characteristics. models of other brands, are adapting wheels to the new legislation, with limitation and certificates of limitation. I don't know if kingsong will. If Kingsong doesn't do it and the police ask me for documents (eg traffic accident or control), I may have problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atdlzpae Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) Quote Hi. I have a ks18xl of 2019. In Spain with the new law, it is illegal to drive with this wheel, since it exceeds 25Km / h. I wanted to know if Kingsong would try to legalize the wheels already sold, that exceed that speed. Greetings. in Spain they will require documents of technical characteristics. models of other brands, are adapting wheels to the new legislation, with limitation and certificates of limitation. I don't know if kingsong will. If Kingsong doesn't do it and the police ask me for documents (eg traffic accident or control), I may have problems. Can you please start using a standard font size? It's hard to understand you when you need to scroll and scroll... Edited January 18, 2020 by atdlzpae 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atdlzpae Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, TomOnWheels said: What if you setup a limit at 25km/h with KS app ? Who will test it ? Is police able to check the speed (actually use the wheel) ? What if you setup a password in the app ? Who can then test the real speed of your wheel and even connect with the app and change settings ? In France is also limited to 25km/h and we have 1 year to make our EUC compliant before it cost you 1500 Euros. I use my KS everyday to commute to my work place and I just setup an alert at 25 km/h, double beep at 30km/h and tilt-back at 35km/h... As far no one cares if i respect road signs, lights... They may test it on a treadmill without a rider. Even a 20km/h tiltback would result in 40km/h result... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamSuffit Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I live in Paris. I would be pissed if Kingsong limits speed without possibility to remove it. Official paper with initial limit 25kmh ok, it needs to be possible to change it for the user (it is legal to go above 25kmh on private area) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seba Posted January 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2020 Upcoming EUC World update will bring a nifty feature called "Enforce Regulatory Compliance"  It's an action that can be executed to enforce legal speed limits on wheel with just one click/menu tap. It will be also available as a custom action that can be tied to Flic button, smartwatch button or screen tap etc.  15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkfire Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 hours ago, SamSuffit said: I live in Paris. I would be pissed if Kingsong limits speed without possibility to remove it. Official paper with initial limit 25kmh ok, it needs to be possible to change it for the user (it is legal to go above 25kmh on I'm sorry, I change font size. I use it to go to work, I do it on public roads and there are usually police officers on the tour. I asked if any user was informed that Kinsong tried to adapt them to the new law or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkfire Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 12 hours ago, atdlzpae said: They may test it on a treadmill without a rider. Even a 20km/h tiltback would result in 40km/h result... without knowing exactly the 18 "linear travel, about 5 wheel turns per second, is approximately 25km / h. if they are able to lift the wheel, mark the tire, tilt the wheel and count more than 5 turns per second or find it impossible because of the speed ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkfire Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 12 hours ago, atdlzpae said: They may test it on a treadmill without a rider. Even a 20km/h tiltback would result in 40km/h result... With the manufacturer's technical data sheet, they know maximum speed. That is why it will be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, Darkfire said: With the manufacturer's technical data sheet, they know maximum speed. That is why it will be necessary. But it remains to be seen what they'll deem max. speed to be. When you buy a KS, it is, in fact, limited to a legal speed. Thus the warning in the app about removing said limitation. But ultimately, it's up to how legislators interpret it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atdlzpae Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, travsformation said: But it remains to be seen what they'll deem max. speed to be. When you buy a KS, it is, in fact, limited to a legal speed. Thus the warning in the app about removing said limitation. But ultimately, it's up to how legislators interpret it... I can send you a $1 invoice that says that I set up a limiter (with EUC.World) to the legal speed in a factory (my home). And almost certainly it would hold up in court. At least that's how it works in Poland with cars - if you have a business, you can easily change the car's purpose by writing an appropriate document. This is stupid, but nonetheless possible. Thankfully laws don't specify that it has to be Gotway's factory. Edited January 19, 2020 by atdlzpae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, atdlzpae said: I can send you a $1 invoice that says that I set up a limiter (with EUC.World) to the legal speed in a factory (my home). And almost certainly it would hold up in court. At least that's how it works in Poland with cars - if you have a business, you can easily change the car's purpose by writing an appropriate document. This is stupid, but nonetheless possible. Thankfully laws don't specify that it has to be Gotway's factory. Do you know what "speed limited by construction" means? It's a speed limit imposed by means provided by constructor on certain vehicle. As now almost every vehicle is electronically controlled, software limits are also a construction limits. We are in XXI century, Woodward or Watt speed limiters are no longer in use  If you get stopped by the police and your EUC will be confiscated for investigation, if they will confirm with factory provided means (read: OEM app) that your EUC was at the time speed-limited to 25 km/h, you're safe. At least in Poland. And I don't know what you mean with changing the car's purpose by writing an appropriate document. I run business and have multiple cars in my company, but never heard about this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atdlzpae Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Seba said: And I don't know what you mean with changing the car's purpose by writing an appropriate document. I run business and have multiple cars in my company, but never heard about this. To change a car's purpose I mean to change it from ?personal? (osobowy) to campervan (specjany kempingowy) or cargo (ciężarowy). You need to have a document from a company with a number in KRS. It's even possible to open a business for a month, create this document for yourself and close the business. 8 minutes ago, Seba said: If you get stopped by the police and your EUC will be confiscated for investigation, if they will confirm with factory provided means (read: OEM app) that your EUC was at the time speed-limited to 25 km/h, you're safe. At least in Poland. That's how me and you interpret it... But you never know how stupid or prejudicious can a judge, a policeman or an insurer be. Edited January 19, 2020 by atdlzpae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, atdlzpae said: To change a car's purpose I mean to change it from ?personal? (osobowy) to campervan (specjany kempingowy) or cargo (ciężarowy). You need to have a document from a company with a number in KRS. It's even possible to open a business for a month, create this document for yourself and close the business. You don't need any document to change purpose of your car. You can even use a crane to make daily errands if you want to, as long as your driving license allows and vehicle doesn't exceed allowed load/traffic limits on roads you would like to drive on. And this doesn't change it's legal or tax situation. If you run business you can declare to tax office that you use car for exclusive company use or mixed, company/private use. And still, you don't need any document for that and you can do this with any vehicle, regarless of purpose. But we're going off topic. But you're right - finally, court will judge who is right and who is not  And definitely insurance company will do what's their best to to refuse to pay compensation  Rgardles what happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espen R Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 We've had the same law's for electric bikes and mopeds for years, but still at least half of all the e-bikes and mopeds are able to exceed 25 km/h. Most of the people who have gotten fines for this were usually stopped because they were violating other traffic laws, and then their vehicle was tested. The police have usually more important things to do than to stop those who follow the traffic flow and rides safe. When the new "Enforce Regulatory Compliance" update comes to the World of EUC app, I will feel completely safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOnWheels Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 22 hours ago, atdlzpae said: They may test it on a treadmill without a rider. Even a 20km/h tiltback would result in 40km/h result... sounds a little bit complicated and honestly it's pretty rare they do it for scooters so i'm not sure they will bother themselves to do it on EUC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meserias Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Dear initiator could you please copy-paste short paragraph that limit your speed from you text law for EUC especialy ? English version will be fine, otherwise will try via Google Translate  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkfire Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Meserias said: Dear initiator could you please copy-paste short paragraph that limit your speed from you text law for EUC especialy ? English version will be fine, otherwise will try via Google Translate  VMP definition (VMP = EUC): VMPs are vehicles that have one or more wheels and have an electric motor and can reach a speed of between 6 and 25km / h. - Your speed limit will be 25 km / h. - A traffic certificate will be required based on the provisions of the manual with the characteristics of the VMP, it will be provided by the manufacturer. Vehicles sold as VMP, which are not. Due to electronic commerce and the possibility of acquiring vehicles that are sold as VMP but which are not, the DGT warns of the importance of looking at the technical characteristics of the device, paying special attention to speed, which cannot exceed 25 km / h and the power of it. In addition, if they are put into circulation, devices that apparently offer benefits greater than a VMP and do not meet the requirements of Regulation (EU) No 168/2013, these vehicles cannot circulate on the roads subject to regulation and their drivers will be denounced with a penalty of € 500 and will be immobilization and deposit thereof. This same group includes cases of VMP that have been manipulated to alter the speed or technical characteristics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 21 hours ago, Seba said: Do you know what "speed limited by construction" means? It's a speed limit imposed by means provided by constructor on certain vehicle. As now almost every vehicle is electronically controlled, software limits are also a construction limits. So are KS18XL's, for example, considered to be limited to 25 km/h by construction? On one hand, I get a feeling they did that specifically to be in compliance with EU laws, but on the other hand, they state 50 km/h on specifications so...which data authorities will take into account remains to be seen... The ideal scenario would be for them to test a factory wheel (limited to 25 km/h) and verify that's it's maximum speed, and any wheel found to be capable of faster speeds is the user's responsibility for having removed the limitation. But in this country, you never know... It's now illegal for PEVs to ride on bike lanes, if that gives you any idea of how coherent legislators are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkfire Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, travsformation said:  It's now illegal for PEVs to ride on bike lanes, if that gives you any idea of how coherent legislators are... By definition the euc are vehicles of urban mobility. Local law allows euc, to ride on bike lanes inside the city, outside the city state law is do not allow by any paved road. Edited January 20, 2020 by Darkfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldARon Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Here in Norway "speed limited by construction" means that the speed is locked in firmware and can't be changed by the user. Here the law says 20km/h. But I have also driven past police above 20 km/h but I respected other laws. Stopped for a pedestrian at a "zebra crossing" witch you have to do here in Norway. The police man actually smiled at med. Seemed impressed. As long as we behave and follow other traffic law. I think we'll be ok here. Edit: Here in Norway PEV's that can ride up to 20km/h regarded as bikes. Edited January 20, 2020 by EldARon 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Meserias Posted January 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Quote "It's now illegal for PEVs to ride on bike lanes, if that gives you any idea of how coherent legislators are..." that's very very limited thinking about the future... bike lanes should change their name from bike path or bike lanes to : green lane and these GREEN LANES should permit any vehicle designed to carry only one person that it's not having any type of combustion engine this should changed in the legislation Edited January 20, 2020 by Meserias 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Darkfire said: requirements of Regulation (EU) No 168/2013 I just want to note that this regulation applies to two- or three-wheel vehicles and quadricycles (art. 2. 1). Furthermore, self-balancing vehicles are explicitly excluded from this regulation (art. 2.2.(i)). https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32013R0168 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 59 minutes ago, Darkfire said: By definition the euc are vehicles of urban mobility. Local law allows euc, to ride on bike lanes inside the city, outside the city state law is do not allow by any paved road. VehÃculos de Movilidad Personal (VMP) = Personal Electric Vehicles (PEV) in English What you say is true, but still problematic. Barcelona, Valencia, Madrid, etc., have specific local PEV laws (ordenanza municipal), but the city where I live, for example, doesn't. When there's no municipal law in place, the state law applies, so here, even though there are e-scooters painted on bike lanes (this was done before the new directive (instrucción) was passed, it's technically illegal to ride on them. Luckily, the police don't enforce this...yet... 54 minutes ago, EldARon said: Here in Norway "speed limited by construction" means that the speed is locked in firmware and can't be changed by the user. That's where the area for interpretation comes into play: in our case, that speed can be unlocked with the app...But even though there's a warning, perhaps it should be rephrased and clearer, in terms of legal implications, such as "For professional, indoor use only" or something of that type. But still, administrations keep legislating things they don't even understand (at least here), not listening to PEV collectives, so it's a bit of a lottery what they'll end up doing... 56 minutes ago, EldARon said: Here the law says 20km/h. But I have also driven past police above 20 km/h but I respected other laws. Stopped for a pedestrian at a "zebra crossing" witch you have to do here in Norway. The police man actually smiled at med. Seemed impressed. As long as we behave and follow other traffic law. I think we'll be ok here. In the city I live in it's similar. If you aren't reckless, they leave you alone. And I make sure to be very cautious and lead by example 46 minutes ago, Meserias said: that's very very limited thinking about the future... bike lanes should change their name from bike path or bike lanes to : green lane and these GREEN LANES should permit any vehicle designed to carry only one person that it's not having any type of combustion engine this should changed in the legislation Very limited indeed... But they consider us a motorized vehicle (regardless of whether it's electric), so we're not allowed on bike lanes. Ironically, e-bikes (limited to a certain top speed) are allowed there, if that gives you any idea of how "coherent" the laws are... They took no cues from other countries, waited until there was a massive public outcry, than hurriedly tried to keep their voters happy by passing laws that make no sense. Or in other words, business as usual... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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