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Preston Palmer

How practical is your EUC? - AIRPLANES!

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Curious: does FAA regulate the Li-ion battery capacity that a private pilot can take on their plane? At least, on board a passenger plane, the personnel is trained to put out lithium battery fires:

But what to do for a solo pilot when this happens?

Jump without a parachute?

Serious question.

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I work for an airline

 

we don’t carry any esk8, escoot, ebike, hoverboards or euc’s regardless of battery

 

sadly for me, I’d love to take my Gotway with me on a trip across the border where I can legally ride it

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There are quite a few private pilots on this forum that use their EUC for ground transportation. They work great in boats too. I use mine to carry tools and materials on campuses and remote locations that cars can’t go. A golf cart won’t fit in my work van. 

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2 hours ago, Aneta said:

Curious: does FAA regulate the Li-ion battery capacity that a private pilot can take on their plane? At least, on board a passenger plane, the personnel is trained to put out lithium battery fires:

But what to do for a solo pilot when this happens?

Jump without a parachute?

Serious question.

Great question!!  Commercial carriers do have different rules.  With that said. I understand the risk. In this case I actually have a parachute on. And I fly with the wheel between 40 and 60% battery where the chemistry is most stable.  Additionally. My flight altitudes don't have massive changes in pressure and temperature like the high flying jets. If I take a wheel in the helicopter I could literally push it out the door if it started smoking. I'm sure I'd scare the hell out of some cow in a field somewhere.... 🤣

But yes. There is risk with everything.  Even flying upside down. Just weigh the risk / giggle factor and proceed accordingly! 

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Great answer, thanks! I guess even on your plane if you keep it at arm's reach, you can smash the side window and push the smoking hoverwheel out. It won't hit the wing or the horizontal stabilizer - it'll fall like a brick.

But if you ever have to use your parachute (I certainly hope this will never happen) not because of the wheel, you might save it by clipping it to your harness with a carabiner and bailing out!

Edited by Aneta

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1 hour ago, Aneta said:

Great answer, thanks! I guess even on your plane if you keep it at arm's reach, you can smash the side window and push the smoking hoverwheel out. It won't hit the wing or the horizontal stabilizer - it'll fall like a brick.

But if you ever have to use your parachute (I certainly hope this will never happen) not because of the wheel, you might save it by clipping it to your harness with a carabiner and bailing out!

LOL!  So because this is an aerobatic airplane I have one emergency pull handle that jettisons the door.  The problem would be releasing my 5 point harness, turning around, releasing it from the back seat, and getting it out the door without falling out myself.  In the event that I smelled smoke, id likely try to land as fast as possible, and get on the ground in not more than a few min.  Ideally it wouldn't go nuclear on me before that.  HAH!  Honestly though, the only time these things go kapow is if they get overcharged.  I feel quite safe with it strapped in the back.  It can't move, and nothing can touch the power button...  Safer than having a airsick passenger back there.  

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If it starts smoking, there's only one right thing to do - throw it out. If it started smoking, it means thermal runaway has started, and it won't get any better. Burning li-ion batteries produce deadly smoke, you may lose consciousness in seconds in that tight space. If you try to land asap, you may find you have to bail out anyway at too low altitude for parachute to work.

These things are like grenades.

 

So, trying to land if there's already smoke is like having a box with ammunition and it starts smoking... bad idea to waste any second.

Fires in li-ion batteries do not necessarily start only when charging.

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8 hours ago, Preston Palmer said:

Serious topic here... How are you practically using your EUC?  How has riding changed your life for the better, could you ever go back to not owning one?!

I am now ADDICTED to putting my KS16X in the backseat of my airplane.  It has effortlessly solved every ground transportation problem i've ever had.  I'm in love! :thumbup:  Thanks @Jason McNeil!

 

 

I just wish Airlines would learn that li-ion batteries are here to stay and sort out a safe transport option. I'd love to take my wheel on holidays.

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As do I,  but when fires happen...

 

a few years ago there was an incident, a pile of RC batteries went up here

 

heres a brief report

 

either way the flag carrier in Aus banned it, I’m not going to share the docs on it, but there is specifically a picture of an euc amongst other pev’s on it

 

 a year sticky tape 2 wheels together and call it a wheel chair, we carry those

 

 

 

 

851755A4-CC02-4F77-8A5C-DA7D4B1EA3AA.jpeg

Edited by Trevor Phillips

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11 hours ago, Aneta said:

If it starts smoking, there's only one right thing to do - throw it out. If it started smoking, it means thermal runaway has started, and it won't get any better.

Would it be possible to have a wheel whose natural state is to fall out of the airplane, but it doesn't because it is restrained in some way? The restraint could be <easily?> removed should the wheel catch fire, but the restraint otherwise doesn't falsely trigger. I was thinking of putting the wheel outside the airplane, or perhaps leaning against a door that is easily pushed outward. 

I feel it's so accidentally easy to design a safety device that, when in operation, makes things more dangerous.

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I think you guys all worry too much. Has anyone here actually had an EUC go up in flames on them? particularly while not charging?

@Preston Palmerit looks like you're having far too much fun in life. Can I ask how the indicators work - do they just come on after you turn or would they be on permanently on a windy road? Also how do the headlamps work - is it just based on speed or do they dip for oncoming traffic? do they adjust for hills and the like?

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1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

Would it be possible to have a wheel whose natural state is to fall out of the airplane, but it doesn't because it is restrained in some way? I was thinking of putting the wheel outside the airplane, or perhaps leaning against a door that is easily pushed outward.

I suppose the FAA or any other country’s aviation agencies could approve such a device if warranted. Movie studios use large camera gimbals and law enforcement have an array of equipment mounted outside an aircraft.
 

As for releasing a flaming wheel from a plane or helicopter onto the public below would never be approved.
 

I use to drop football and soccer balls from my helicopter into stadium fields below to raise money for high school events. It required a special FAA waver along significant liability insurance. Dropping a light weight bouncing ball from 300 feet into a controlled environment is much different that unleashing a 40-50 pound anvil on the public. 
 

 

49404022958_b0a52b00ab_b.jpg

 

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53 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

As for releasing a flaming wheel from a plane or helicopter onto the public below would never be approved.

In the USA.  Dropping things out of airplanes is perfectly legal.  The best part, if that if its done to meet the demand of an emergency, there is absolutely no problem with it.  


 
14 CFR Section 91.17. - Dropping objects.

No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be
dropped from that aircraft in flight
that creates a hazard to persons or
property. However, this section does
not prohibit the dropping of any object
if reasonable precautions are taken to
avoid injury or damage to persons or
property.

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1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

@Preston Palmer it looks like you're having far too much fun in life. Can I ask how the indicators work - do they just come on after you turn or would they be on permanently on a windy road? Also how do the headlamps work - is it just based on speed or do they dip for oncoming traffic? do they adjust for hills and the like?

Great question.  And it seems that the light behavior has now changed with firmware.  I don't have a video from the back to see how the turn lights are working with the current firmware version.  Headlamp goes from low to HI after a certain speed.  They don't adjust for hills or oncoming traffic.  They keep making updates to how these work. The most recent V2.0 for the 18XL added a whole bunch of light options that I haven't fully played with yet.

Quote

Has anyone here actually had an EUC go up in flames on them? particularly while not charging?

I am unaware of any Japanese lithium cells in an EUC going boom aside from overcharging.

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2 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Would it be possible to have a wheel whose natural state is to fall out of the airplane, but it doesn't because it is restrained in some way? The restraint could be <easily?> removed should the wheel catch fire, but the restraint otherwise doesn't falsely trigger. I was thinking of putting the wheel outside the airplane, or perhaps leaning against a door that is easily pushed outward. 

I feel it's so accidentally easy to design a safety device that, when in operation, makes things more dangerous.

I'm sure something could be designed for this.  You would need to be careful that modifications are FAA compliant.  I would certainly advice against using a wheel as external cargo for a multitude of legal, practical and aerodynamic reasons.

Keep in mind, reducing the external variability of temperature and pressure changes is a huge factor in lithium cell failure.

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