MSuper Pro?

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, ZenRyder said:

You may not have heard of it, but that's how I implemented my MSX mod and it works great. The choice is to use a momentary on/off or a toggle on/off switch. Both options work. I can push the switch once to engage the motor cut off, lift the wheel over a road block or carry up the stairs, and then push it again to disengage once you reach the destination. You can see when the switch is depressed (it's flush) and when it's off (it extends out so you can see it's off). It's a lot easier than trying to hold down the switch while lifting 50+ lbs of steel, rubber, and lithium ion.

But hey, it's a great workout. This is a picture of me doing a little strength building with the MSX. Notice I don't have to have my thumb on the switch while lifting with this method.

All joking aside. I do think the toggle on/off option is better and that is how my mod works.

The editing on the photo is superb  If I didn't know what you really looked like (sorry ) I would almost think this was real 

I can see the advantage of the latching approach. But @Flyboy10 made the observation as a negative, as if other wheels implement a latching cut-off switch, which they don't. So I don't think it's fair to list that as a negative, IMO.

[ZenRyder]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

If I didn't know what you really looked like (sorry ) I would almost think this was real 

Yeah you're right, I've got blonde hair, not brown.  

[Rywokast]

12 hours ago, Lukas83 said:

hmm.. that angle looks very uncomfortable... but I like the preferred torque and acceleration more than just more speed... 

it looks ridiculous lol.. ride at that for more than twenty mins and it would probably feel like someone took a baseball bat to your ankles... this doesnt look like an improvement at all, an ugly awkward slapped on cut off button that would be difficult to even reach for most and useless if youre left handed, and wouldnt coming to a stop with the seat on press against it, dumping you off??? completely exposed speakers right where your ankle will be, that will let in water nicely.. shell is just as ugly, pedals are just as small, and its slower?? why are they calling this the pro why not just the torque edition along with the other 100v which would be the speed edition like the MCM4.. they put in a headlight that cost two bucks more than the previous one seems to be the only thing i would consider an upgrade lol, not that i have an issue with any euc headlight in existence anyways. i seriously doubt the motor is any different, heard that bs before

Edited January 27, 2020 by Rywokast

[AtlasP]

  

7 hours ago, Planemo said:

To be fair though it's such a simple fix that if I were in the market for a Pro it wouldn't fuss me at all.

It took me all of 30 minutes to file my Nikola pedals to my liking. It only takes a small amount to change the angle significantly.

Did you file the pedals or the pedal stand-offs on the wheel? I've been thinking of trying to pay someone to do the former but I'm a little afraid of affecting the structural integrity of the pedals.. (It's annoying how the pedal stand-offs themselves are angled/are where the angle is implemented, which means there is less 'material' on the pedal end to be able to modify. Ideally the stand-offs should be squared (and standardized in size) and then pedal angle could be a feature of different pedals and they could sell different sets of pedals with different amounts of angle.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by AtlasP

[FrankFilmer]

2 hours ago, AtlasP said:

  

Did you file the pedals or the pedal stand-offs on the wheel? I've been thinking of trying to pay someone to do the former but I'm a little afraid of affecting the structural integrity of the pedals.. (It's annoying how the pedal stand-offs themselves are angled/are where the angle is implemented, which means there is less 'material' on the pedal end to be able to modify. Ideally the stand-offs should be squared (and standardized in size) and then pedal angle could be a feature of different pedals and they could sell different sets of pedals with different amounts of angle.

 

I so hope Gotway reads your post.

I've filed down nikola pedals for my msx in the past and it's a real pain to get them flush. It would be REALLY nice to be able to buy them machined that way.

[FlyboyEUC]

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

So I don't think it's fair to list that as a negative, IMO.

That's fair. I've just only seen inmotion's (which you can't pick up without disengaging the motor), kingsong's sensor lift, ZenRyder's latching button mod, and then the Nikola's touch pad thing. 

Now that I write that, I notice that all production motor cutoff switches need to be constantly held. All of those are directly under the handle though, so it makes sense to be non latching.

[Planemo]

5 hours ago, AtlasP said:

 Did you file the pedals or the pedal stand-offs on the wheel? 

Always the pedals, never the hangers. That way, if something goes wrong, you take off too much or simply break a pedal, the option is always there to buy a new set of pedals rather than the cost and complexity of replacing hangers.

Structural integrity is a valid concern, but we are talking such small amounts of material being removed that its a non issue imo (except maybe on the feeble V10 pedals). From memory, removing 6 or 7 degrees from my Nikola pedals equated to about 0.5mm of material. Thats why you need to go carefully.

It all depends on how well (or not) the pedals have been cast. For example, just getting the pedal surface to mate square and fully with the hanger surface can drop the pedals quite a bit, without actually 'removing' material across the whole surface of the pedal. This is where 'engineers blue' is your friend. It will mark the contact point/s so you know where you are going. With my Nikola pedals, they were touching the hangar in very odd places. Just making them sit flat properly with the hangar surface (without removing much material) dropped the height significantly, with the bonus of them not sticking anymore.

Seems like I have rambled on trying to get a point across, not sure if I have made sense!

[Marty Backe]

7 hours ago, Rywokast said:

it looks ridiculous lol.. ride at that for more than twenty mins and it would probably feel like someone took a baseball bat to your ankles... this doesnt look like an improvement at all, an ugly awkward slapped on cut off button that would be difficult to even reach for most and useless if youre left handed, and wouldnt coming to a stop with the seat on press against it, dumping you off??? completely exposed speakers right where your ankle will be, that will let in water nicely.. shell is just as ugly, pedals are just as small, and its slower?? why are they calling this the pro why not just the torque edition along with the other 100v which would be the speed edition like the MCM4.. they put in a headlight that cost two bucks more than the previous one seems to be the only thing i would consider an upgrade lol, not that i have an issue with any euc headlight in existence anyways. i seriously doubt the motor is any different, heard that bs before

Regarding the motor, the Russians have indicated that it is different (wider), meaning bigger magnets, meaning more torque. Time will prove this out, or not.

[Rywokast]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Regarding the motor, the Russians have indicated that it is different (wider), meaning bigger magnets, meaning more torque. Time will prove this out, or not.

really? interesting.. well hopefully see a breakdown on ecodrift soon they always have the most detailed disassemblies and before anybody else.. if thats the case then its warranted, however i still think they should have improved the shell design with the cut off button incorporated under the handle and be using larger nikola pedals as standard now

[T800]

6 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

¿De Verdad? interesante ... bueno, espero ver un desglose en ecodrift pronto, siempre tienen los desmontajes más detallados y antes que nadie ... si ese es el caso, entonces está justificado, sin embargo, todavía creo que deberían haber mejorado el diseño de la carcasa con el botón de corte incorporado debajo el mango y usar pedales nikola más grandes como estándar ahora

I hope that is how it is where the msx suffers most, it has little torque to climb steep slopes, the radius so large 19 "penalizes him a lot.

[FlyboyEUC]

I can confirm the motor is noticeably wider. I haven't measured it yet though. 

[Marty Backe]

19 minutes ago, Flyboy10 said:

I can confirm the motor is noticeably wider. I haven't measured it yet though. 

Yes, please quantify that if you get a chance 

[Planemo]

35 minutes ago, Flyboy10 said:

I can confirm the motor is noticeably wider. I haven't measured it yet though. 

I thought the pics on page 3 of this thread already quantified that?

[FreeRide]

16 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The editing on the photo is superb  If I didn't know what you really looked like (sorry ) I would almost think this was real 

I can see the advantage of the latching approach. But @Flyboy10 made the observation as a negative, as if other wheels implement a latching cut-off switch, which they don't. So I don't think it's fair to list that as a negative, IMO.

I think it can certainly be classified as a negative, because the position of the switch is not the same as the other wheels, where latching is not really required.  

[FlyboyEUC]

On 1/14/2020 at 6:01 PM, Asphalt said:

 

The picture above isn't very conclusive. I'm guessing it reads 54 mm or 5.4 cm based on the measurement I just took on my MSX which was 42.8 mm or 4.28 cm

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Flyboy10

[meepmeepmayer]

Just wait for the @EcoDrift disassembly photos. Always the best source for hard info.

[FlyboyEUC]

 

[MexicanBatman]

How does 100v 1800wh compare to 84v 1600wh in the real world when it comes to range, battery calculators tell me that the 84v is a larger AH capacity

 

unless I’m calculating it wrong

 

but riding at a fixed speed and load on both wheels would the 84v go further?

 

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, Trevor Phillips said:

How does 100v 1800wh compare to 84v 1600wh in the real world when it comes to range, battery calculators tell me that the 84v is a larger AH capacity

 

unless I’m calculating it wrong

 

but riding at a fixed speed and load on both wheels would the 84v go further?

 

Battery capacity is what matters, not voltage, when considering range.

For instance, when I performed a range test with my 84-volt 1600wh Nikola and then did the same range test with the 100-volt 1845wh Nikola, the 100-volt wheel gave me ~10+ percent more range.

[meepmeepmayer]

16 minutes ago, Trevor Phillips said:

How does 100v 1800wh compare to 84v 1600wh in the real world when it comes to range, battery calculators tell me that the 84v is a larger AH capacity

 

unless I’m calculating it wrong

Wh is Wh. This is the actual energy content, which decides how much you can do with it. Ah * voltage = Wh, so if you reduce the voltage for a given battery size (in Wh), you naturally get higher Ah. But Ah means nothing without a voltage. Wh is what counts.

16 minutes ago, Trevor Phillips said:

but riding at a fixed speed and load on both wheels would the 84v go further?

In first approximation, only the battery size (in Wh) counts. Same size, same range. 1600Wh (1531.8Wh if you're more precise for Gotways) and 1800Wh (1776Wh) compare according to their capacities (1776/1530 = 16% difference).

Some people reported a bit better efficiency of 100V wheels at high speeds (like 25+mph). So you might get more than 16% extra range (maybe 20%? 25%?) from the 100V MSPro if you go ~30mph all the time. But then your range would suck anyways due to the high speed

Is there confirmation that there will be an 84V MSPro?

[MexicanBatman]

Excellent guys thanks

 

i have an 84v MSX

 

i don’t need 100v speed

 

but I’d love the MS Pro torque 

 

but not at the expense of a reduced range as I use every last bit of my MSX

 

so this is on the radar for me

 

the extra torque will be very welcome grinding up off-road tracks and helping me descend, less brown pants moments!

Edited January 28, 2020 by Trevor Phillips

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Trevor Phillips said:

Excellent guys thanks

 

i have an 84v MSX

 

i don’t need 100v speed

 

but I’d love the MS Pro torque 

 

but not at the expense of a reduced range as I use every last bit of my MSX

 

so this is on the radar for me

 

the extra torque will be very welcome grinding up off-road tracks and helping me descend, less brown pants moments!

Me too   Can't wait to test it at my mountain proving grounds.

[mrelwood]

I apologise for off-topicing a bit, but I’m having trouble understanding the exact meaning of the word ”torque” used here at our forum, as the translated terms I was able to find are a bit vague.

From Wikipedia, amount of torque = force * distance (* angle).

When talking about torque of an EUC though, what does it mean?

1) The amount of force that can be applied at the front end of the pedals?

2) The maximum rotational force the wheel can provide?

Since the distance to the pedals and to the tire edge is still the same on the MSPro, the ratio of input and output torque is still the same. So accelerating and hill climbing requires and uses the same amount of physical force as before. The only variable that can be increased is the maximum amount of rotational force the wheel can provide at the tire.

But that wouldn’t affect hill climbing or acceleration at all. Unless you accelerate so fast that the previous MSX would have overleaned, which I think someone calculated earlier being practically impossible due to the short pedals. I’m of course not talking about a high speed over-lean, but hill climbing speeds.

So why is this increased torque such a favourable feature on the MSPro? Just like there is no point of increasing the top speed to 100km/h if you only ride at 40km/h, what is the point of increasing the MSX torque if it already has more than enough?

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

So why is this increased torque such a favourable feature on the MSPro? Just like there is no point of increasing the top speed to 100km/h if you only ride at 40km/h, what is the point of increasing the MSX torque if it already has more than enough?

Imho (i did not follow everything in detail before) the msx pro shall have a different motor with less top speed but more torque. (Or by the battery voltage increase max speed stays about the same and torque is increased)

As you wrote, the low speed torque of the old msx should already be enough, but by the different motor this high, low speed torques can now be reached with less current! (At the same current the "new" motor will deliver more torque)

So less burden for the mosfets and wirings.

Edit: For some maybe additional clarification:

_If_ the MSX Pro with 100.8V batteries will have the same top speed (lift cut off speed) as the MSX 84V this would mean, when for some specific torque at some specific speed the MSX84V needs a current of 80 Amperes the MSX pro 100.8V will need just 80A*84V/100.8V = 67A.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Chriull

[Mike Sacristan]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I apologise for off-topicing a bit, but I’m having trouble understanding the exact meaning of the word ”torque” used here at our forum, as the translated terms I was able to find are a bit vague.

From Wikipedia, amount of torque = force * distance (* angle).

When talking about torque of an EUC though, what does it mean?

1) The amount of force that can be applied at the front end of the pedals?

2) The maximum rotational force the wheel can provide?

Since the distance to the pedals and to the tire edge is still the same on the MSPro, the ratio of input and output torque is still the same. So accelerating and hill climbing requires and uses the same amount of physical force as before. The only variable that can be increased is the maximum amount of rotational force the wheel can provide at the tire.

But that wouldn’t affect hill climbing or acceleration at all. Unless you accelerate so fast that the previous MSX would have overleaned, which I think someone calculated earlier being practically impossible due to the short pedals. I’m of course not talking about a high speed over-lean, but hill climbing speeds.

So why is this increased torque such a favourable feature on the MSPro? Just like there is no point of increasing the top speed to 100km/h if you only ride at 40km/h, what is the point of increasing the MSX torque if it already has more than enough?

I agree with you and I die a little inside when I read about the torque of the MSuper Pro.

It's useless if it can't be used and the geometry of the wheel is in the way.
I have never felt the MSX 84v be wanting for power.

Things that could increase the torque would be things that can improve the leverage we can apply to the wheel:

Larger pedals so we can be further front
Pads that we can squeeze and use to crank the wheel forward/backward and not fall off the front
Lower pedals
Make it a a 16 incher
Make it a 14 incher

And outside of that, a squishy pedal mode coupled with a firmware that boosts our input. Like the KingSong learning modes.