EMA Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 7:30 PM, DjPanJan said: Good to know thank you @Esbu and @Antec. This is redesign then not size change. I was scamed then. I come from inmotion V10F and KS16X . Is worth purchase custom 150+ eur or is monster pedal confortable solution for somebody who come from KS/INM? Back to MSP topic: I today try hard mode and if i hard brake or idling pedals start float this is surprise for me ks16X never have this issue. I try calibrate not help with issue . KS and inmotion i never experience this issues . In medium is aceptable my hard mode is broken. edit: i do multiple calibration hard mode feels smore stable im no try it on ride just in room by idling.Respective i switch to hard mode and recalibrate precisely. get the monster pedal and you'll love them what do you mean by "pedal start float" ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjPanJan Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, EMA said: get the monster pedal and you'll love them / i click nylonove i hope be faster in my house. Monster pedal they say 3 weeks delivery minimal. In 2 days nylonove in da house. what do you mean by "pedal start float" ?/ All i write here is about diference kingsong ks16X hard mode to gotway. Pedals feel like start finding level like plastic piece on waves not stable like up and down movement. (compred to 16x where is pedlas absolutely flat not float never) I make more precise clibration is beter still is far from optimal. Medium on my MSP is only usable mode is too soft to my ideal good is no have this float feel. I realise when i go incline speed 15-35km/h constant speed i feel continuous twitching like pulses is not good feel is definetly not smooth my V10F or 16x not have this never. I 3x try reasign tire no tire related "vibration" is just pulses is anoyng. (freespin tire/rim no oscilation nice stable) i try explain this pulsation Imagine you ride car 60km/h(stable speed on cruise control) or miles and you pushing acelerator litle 1 cm deeper and instant release and repeat 2-3 seconds this type of pulses. Is not strong i can feel change in my body weight distribution when "pulse" apear is anoyng. Pulses is stronger to inclines more torque more pulsating on flat perfect road(brand new) can be feel too. I am disapointment i expect level of smoothnes like 16x or inmotion and legendary gotway hardnes hard pedals is not here not in my MSP. I again try explain what my hard mode do. I give hand to wall and idle 1 meter front and back. If i change direction from front to back pedal kick and "float" like wood on water for short period of time. Like pedal need time aclimatizate this change. If i do fast front and back(idling) result is pedals swing that strong i canot hold on msp anymore. Medium not have this "feature" Just tell me this is normal you MSP is fine. Again i go from 16X and inmotion v10f absolutely i never experienced something similar. I never ride gotway before. Edited August 3, 2020 by DjPanJan fix words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) I just calibrated yet another wheel that has been calibrated “multiple times“, and (not at all) surprisingly the MSP became stable right away. ”Doing calibration“ is next to worthless unless you do it correctly and with precision. 1) Start the calibration process from any app that’s connected to the wheel. For GW, your need to also power off the wheel despite it went limb already. 2) Switch to a 3D level app in your phone, and place it on its side on the pedal hanger, gently keeping it towards the shell so it won’t fall. 3) Look at the values on the app, and find a position for the wheel where the app shows the phone being perfectly vertical (90 degrees), and perfectly level regarding the front to back tilt. This app is called “Precise Level” (iOS): 4) Keep the wheel steady in that exact position, and start pressing the power button. Only once you hear the long beep, you can let go, and once more power off and power on the wheel. Edited August 3, 2020 by mrelwood 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjPanJan Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 @mrelwood I use "U stand homemade" First i level stand if is leveled. After is in level (analog measure with bubble) and app both leveled. I start calibration process on MSP put on stand and level MSP (sit on pedal hangers) If i have 90 degree vertical and level horisontal too. Turn MSP on beeps come and end with neverendig beep (i try 3 min still continuous beep my ears almost bleed) turn off MSP and start again done. This is how i calibrate. ////// pure speculation here: No idea what can be bad in my calibration maybee pedal hangers is not i one line and this make vertical level bad i dont know. MSP no have flat surface where phone measure horisontal easy (with phone) against .///// After calibration i start msp put phone (app) to pedal hanger and both is 90 degree just perfect. Belive me i realy wish my "pulsing" is only results not ideal calibration.Because this is only thing what i can fix in home. The production quality of the assembly on my MSP is very precise the parts fit together without deviation but under the handle when I put the phone on a horizontal calibration so it "swings" at the joint of the cover it's slightly raised there. This can be weak spot. I repeat my stand is pure level horizontaly before i put msp on. I try calibrate again then ,can be problem my tire is in air all time i make calibration? Identical calibration process i do on same stand with 16X zero problem always precise calibration. After my calibration if i start MSP on stand tire in air calibration is good because tire not spin is just static. If i make small change in angle (front back) start spin slowly and if i stop "push" stop again. However, I will try to repeat the calibration and test in different ways, even if I think I'm doing it correctly with your advice and I appreciate the experience, so I'd rather spend time solving it than convincing myself that I'm doing it well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) just to be sure @DjPanJan turn on wheel and start calibration with app then put wheel on a stand and level with a phone finish with the power button and long beep Edited August 3, 2020 by EMA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasP Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: ...This ... is called “Precise Level” ... Obligatory: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 15 hours ago, DjPanJan said: @mrelwood I use "U stand homemade" First i level stand if is leveled. After is in level (analog measure with bubble) and app both leveled. It sounds like you truly do make the calibration with great precision. I wonder if there is a fault in the wheel after all. 7 hours ago, AtlasP said: Obligatory: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Mazur Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 i felt this pedal floating issue on my firends msxs 84v, my 16x is solid hard compare to gotway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Couldn't this floatiness be the pedal holder nut that is loose? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 8/3/2020 at 5:32 AM, DjPanJan said: I again try explain what my hard mode do. I give hand to wall and idle 1 meter front and back. If i change direction from front to back pedal kick and "float" like wood on water for short period of time. I have had similar sensations on my MSP. Sometimes when I am going down a mild grade and doing some gentle braking, I feel the braking quit and I get that pedal floating on water feeling, but the wheel continues to balance. I just have to exert more pedal control input to get the usual results. I have a theory that the wheel went from medium mode to soft mode on its own for a bit. That is just a guess. When I am riding along for a while with the body acutely attuned to medium mode and it goes to soft mode, it suddenly feels like wood floating on water. I have learned to just ride it out. But the couple of times was a bit unnerving. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DjPanJan Posted August 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) Big update after thorough testing. I bought a small triangular bubble spirit level to fit the pedal holder. And went into RICK SANCHEZ true level mode. I put a stand in the spirit level and seated the MSP identically on both sides so that the pedal holders touched the surface in the same place. Then I used small wedges on the pedal holders to adjust the angle as needed to achieve a horizontal condition. Thanks to a small triangular spirit level, I was able to level the vertical. I calibrated tried idling in place with my hand on the wall in hard mode. I have felt a significant improvement from the state of the impossible and it is now usable. It doesn't reach the KS16X level but it's probably a matter of habit each EUC is unique and I'm no one with average experience I have no right to say what's good and bad. Simply put, you were right and I'm glad you shared your experiences with me. I was wrong and I was convinced that I was doing it "perfectly", it wasn't true and you knew it. Now I know that anything other than RICK SANCHEZ true level is not enough for gotway MSP. The KS16X is not even a tenth as difficult to calibrate as a gotway MSP that is like brain surgery such a must be precision. This is my lesson and I also recommend this triangular weight to everyone. Thank you all with great humility and I am glad that I listened to you. I wanted to document it but I would need 4 hands so at least I will give a photo from the preparation. Edited August 4, 2020 by DjPanJan 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjPanJan Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Scottie said: I have had similar sensations on my MSP. Sometimes when I am going down a mild grade and doing some gentle braking, I feel the braking quit and I get that pedal floating on water feeling, but the wheel continues to balance. I just have to exert more pedal control input to get the usual results. I have a theory that the wheel went from medium mode to soft mode on its own for a bit. That is just a guess. When I am riding along for a while with the body acutely attuned to medium mode and it goes to soft mode, it suddenly feels like wood floating on water. I have learned to just ride it out. But the couple of times was a bit unnerving. You described it perfectly, I'm glad I'm not the only one on the planet, I thought I was crazy. Try to do (RICK level) and share the result if it had an effect I would be very curious. 4 hours ago, null said: Couldn't this floatiness be the pedal holder nut that is loose? Thank you for idea in my case propably not hardware failure i hope. I try test in real routes and give feedback here if my "new true level" calibration move this to rideable state( i hope). 4 hours ago, Marek Mazur said: i felt this pedal floating issue on my firends msxs 84v, my 16x is solid hard compare to gotway Great to hear for me yes. I go from 16X and this difference is hudge. I try many 16X FWs on 2 versions mainboard 1.4 and 1.5 board and never experience something like this now on MSP. Myaybee is just "feature" time tell i ride actualy medium because safety. But i am hard mode person(historicaly). On 8/3/2020 at 2:55 PM, EMA said: just to be sure @DjPanJan turn on wheel and start calibration with app then put wheel on a stand and level with a phone finish with the power button and long beep Thank you for usefull summary is always good to verify that i did not make a mistake in this part thanks. On 8/3/2020 at 1:42 PM, mrelwood said: I just calibrated yet another wheel that has been calibrated “multiple times“, and (not at all) surprisingly the MSP became stable right away. ”Doing calibration“ is next to worthless unless you do it correctly and with precision. 1) Start the calibration process from any app that’s connected to the wheel. For GW, your need to also power off the wheel despite it went limb already. 2) Switch to a 3D level app in your phone, and place it on its side on the pedal hanger, gently keeping it towards the shell so it won’t fall. 3) Look at the values on the app, and find a position for the wheel where the app shows the phone being perfectly vertical (90 degrees), and perfectly level regarding the front to back tilt. This app is called “Precise Level” (iOS): 4) Keep the wheel steady in that exact position, and start pressing the power button. Only once you hear the long beep, you can let go, and once more power off and power on the wheel. Thank you so much you hit the nail on the head from the beginning. As I tried to tilt the MSP back and forth on the stand, we noticed that around half the maximum speed, the wheel would start to vibrate from the tire. At the same time, I had the tire inflated and evenly massaged in places where the pen test revealed inaccuracy. It was good and after a 70km ride, an oscillation appeared at a certain speed. It could be the "pulsation" I felt, but again it pulsates more when climbing a hill if it was just a tire it would be great. What more can I do with that tire? It is in one place as if I located the "bigger" problem place + - 10 - 15 cm from the valve. I ride at 38 PSI 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted August 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2020 6 hours ago, DjPanJan said: What more can I do with that tire? If you want to get a “true level” level balance on the tire, you can try weight balancing the wheel: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Great vid, cheers. Can you reccomend what size weights/quantity I should buy before doing this? Or an ebay link? My msx has a fairly noticeable front/back oscillation whilst running on a stand and although I cant say I can feel it when riding, I wondered if I can reduce it anyway. The tyre itself has very little runout so I am not going to play with the bead seating anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Planemo said: Great vid, cheers. Can you reccomend what size weights/quantity I should buy before doing this? Thanks! It’s an oldie but the method is still the best I know of. I always end up using 10 gram weights, much also because of it being the largest size I can reasonably fit on the rim. Usually no more than four at a time total, but sometimes I’ve had one drop off during a ride. The local shop only had a pack of 200 weights, so you might have to buy a few spares as well... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Great cheers. I couldnt find any less quantity than 4x strips each of 60g total (made up from 5g and 10g weights) on the bay but at £3.95 I can live with that. I will need to wait until Mrs P is out gor this job though...if she sees my wheel anywhere near her digital kitchen scales she will go nuts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) Quote I will need to wait until Mrs P is out gor this job though...if she sees my wheel anywhere near her digital kitchen scales she will go nuts Yet another advantage of being a poor lonesome single! Edited August 5, 2020 by mrelwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Lindmark Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 A tip for balancing the wheeel, insert a pivot under the plank fairly close to the balance point. My scale produced poor accuracy when faced with 4+ kg weight during my first try. after changing the pivot it was a couple of hundred grams left on the scale. Also, start out taping the weights on so you can adjust them easier until you're done since they're very hard to relocate once in place. My wheel ended up fairly balanced with 40g (8x5g) of weight around 1/4 turn ccw from the valve. Didn't end up doing any side-to-side adjustment since it wasn't too bad once the overall imbalance got better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EMA Posted August 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) reached 4500km on my torque unit yesterday, great machine, love it https://photos.app.goo.gl/8HCbymeRUz1amxHU8 Edited August 6, 2020 by EMA 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DjPanJan Posted August 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 6, 2020 As I promised, here is the update. (This time all the text is translated by google) I'll divide it into points.1. Rick Sanchez true level calibration have positive impact now i feel like MSP 2500w medium mode is very close to kingson KS16X hard mode which is what I would like to achieve with the difference that MSP medium is not logically like 16X hard but the feeling of braking is similar and I feel confident. 2. However, the HARD MODE on my MSP is just broken for me. It ripples like wood on water. The pedals seem to be still calling with such a swaying feeling, I came to the conclusion that GOTWAY probably wants to have it, although I absolutely don't understand who likes it, who suits it and what it is for, but I respect it and I'm really sorry. I'm sorry because I was waiting for the V10F or 16X that the harder mode is just the same as the medium or soft but the harder it was my expectation all EUCs we knew have it that way. The reality is that Gotway MSP HARD mode is something completely different than soft and medium completely different universe another reality where it works probably different physics these are my impressions it's a thing not from our world.I fully respect the riders who like this ridding mode but either my MSP hard mode is "broken" or these riders are a revelation to me from another world because I have trouble keeping up and running and having fun with MSP with this mode and I can't think of it for it no use. I was pleased with the opinions of other members of the forum that they think MSP or generally Gotway HARD mode "other" "unusual" "special" unique "" weird "" floating "here please choose a word in" "that does not upset you. 3. regarding pulsation/jerks I don't have any update yet I'm in the process of preparing the wheel balance. But I have a bad feeling that it will not be just from the tire because it manifests itself more when climbing uphill and also it is much more observable the harder the driving mode is the set medium it is easily observable hard much more. It is not logically recognizable on a bad surface, but when it is beautiful smooth asphalt or fine concrete, it is immediately recognizable. I'm not making any conclusions now, I know it's not a calibration . Now I will proceed by trying to deal with the tire and wheel balance. Depending on the result, I will proceed further. 4. I am satisfied with the purchase, I would just like to bring things closer to the ideal. I ask stupidly because I don't have the opportunity to try another "MSP" or any other Gotway. I'm here on my own if I had the opportunity ride another MSP or Gotway a lot of things I would answer myself. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilvodka Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Has the cause of these cut outs been singled out yet? Looks like another cut out in nyc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 i think there's no cut out on this wheel, the only one are riders errors not listening the beeps 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EMA Posted August 13, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2020 ultimate control pad, first test was super awesome, i'm still refining them a bit 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookz Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Can you post that file somewhere? Those looks sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Wookz said: Can you post that file somewhere? Those looks sick. i'm refining them a bit but if you wanna try no problem, control goes to infinite Edited August 13, 2020 by EMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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