MSuper Pro?

[BecauseFun]

18 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

E+ to MSPro... wow, that is going to be quite the upgrade

Hopefully it won't make me want to have wished I'd upgraded my health insurance as well.  But another thing definitely getting upgraded is my gear, there's no more excuses left for putting off getting a full face helmet or some decent body armor now.

[meepmeepmayer]

4 minutes ago, BecauseFun said:

But another thing definitely getting upgraded is my gear, there's no more excuses left for putting off getting a full face helmet or some decent body armor now.

[Mike Paolini]

Sadly, same terrible trolly design...   No word on waterproofing (those speakers placement, as shown have me wondering about how long they will last).  No word on peak power, or the batteries in use.

Be interesting to see it comparison to the new Rockwheel Iron Korea which they are claiming is a 3000W motor and 92v (

 )

[BecauseFun]

A couple more pictures:

 

 

[EMA]

there's nothing to dream on this wheel, it's the battery+board already used on nikola in a bigger msx shell, nothing to worry about, you already know what expect and you already know it will be good

[Aneta]

That the top speed is predicted at 47mph (increase from what? 40mph for MSX 100V?) and the speed increase factor is close to 1.25x (2500W/2000W = 1.25), tells us that the increased power rating of this motor simply means that this is a motor with higher Kv, but same magnet width. Same torque, 25% more speed = 25% more power. Speedier motor will mean more thrust margin as the torque vs. speed line is now more shallow. But increased speed will increase air drag dramatically. 25% increase in speed = 56% increase in drag. So, riders will need to stay away from the top speed farther than they used to on slower version, to give themselves the same thrust margin as before.

[Aneta]

Wow! Exposed (to impact) charging port?! Is it how it is on MSX, too? In a crash, the male pins could easily be bent and touch each other... kaboom! 

 

[RagingGrandpa]

8 minutes ago, Aneta said:

Wow! Exposed (to impact) charging port?! Is it how it is on MSX, too? In a crash, the male pins could easily be bent and touch each other... kaboom!

But the charging port isn't hardwired to the cells- it goes to the BMS.

Do you know if the Gotway BMS protects for charger short-circuit? (I think it should but can't confirm)

[Planemo]

12 minutes ago, Aneta said:

That the top speed is predicted at 47mph (increase from what? 40mph for MSX 100V?)

I'm not convinced that this new wheel will be any quicker than the old 100v 18650 MSX tbh. I will of course love to be proved wrong.

It seems that the dual headlight might be able to be retrofitted to the old MSX as the surround looks the same shape.

The charge port has been the same type and location for donkeys years. Given the pins are recessed well inside the GX connector, you would have to go some to bend them into each other. Never heard it happen.

So the anti-slip tyre...hmmm....they might want to re-think that bold statement on the litigious USA sites. Looks like it's the tyre that @mrelwood retro fitted to his MSX. Not saying it's bad, just that I don't think any tire is anti-slip....

 

[scap]

22 minutes ago, Aneta said:

Wow! Exposed (to impact) charging port?! Is it how it is on MSX, too? In a crash, the male pins could easily be bent and touch each other... kaboom! 

I would be surprised if there weren't protection diodes on this to prevent this from occurring. I know on my V10F I wasn't able to get a reading from the leads likely because of this. I had to open it up and test the battery directly. There was 0V present on the charge leads without the charger connected.

[BecauseFun]

28 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

Sadly, same terrible trolly design...   No word on waterproofing (those speakers placement, as shown have me wondering about how long they will last). 

 

I wonder if it's more to do with pride or patent law (written or unwritten) that Gotway hasn't tried to copy King Song's much better diagonal handles. 

Or maybe it's just how they are thinking, kind of a riff on dating women:

Sane, Sexy, Smart: Pick any two.

Now with wheels:

Performance, Reliability, Everything Else.

Pretty obvious the two that Gotway's been picking, and if this next Msuper holds up to those standards it could be worse.

As far as the speakers, I've been on friend's boats in saltwater who've upgraded their sound with cheap speakers designed for marine environments and they've held up great so they could last.

[Planemo]

The speakers appear to have the same waterproof type cones a la KS16X, Z10 and others. As long as they don't get perforated (and they do look a bit vulnerable) there shouldn't be any problems.

[RagingGrandpa]

33 minutes ago, BecauseFun said:

A couple more pictures:

Weird- those two pics show two different tires!

Top looks like CST C-1488 (e.g.: KS18XL)

Bottom looks like ChaoYang H-5102 (e.g.: MSX)

[BecauseFun]

1 hour ago, Aneta said:

That the top speed is predicted at 47mph (increase from what? 40mph for MSX 100V?) and the speed increase factor is close to 1.25x (2500W/2000W = 1.25), tells us that the increased power rating of this motor simply means that this is a motor with higher Kv, but same magnet width. Same torque, 25% more speed = 25% more power. Speedier motor will mean more thrust margin as the torque vs. speed line is now more shallow. But increased speed will increase air drag dramatically. 25% increase in speed = 56% increase in drag. So, riders will need to stay away from the top speed farther than they used to on slower version, to give themselves the same thrust margin as before.

Going by the Gotway speed chart which shows the MSX 100v at 69 km an hour (~43mph) on a full battery, I stand by my guess at a 47mph top speed and I hope am wrong and it's better. Pure speculation of course, but I'm also guessing that anyone cruising at 35mph on an MSX 100v could be doing in the low 40s on an MSPro.

Although it's entirely possible that higher-end speeds won't change that much, and the larger excitement factor is the increased torque. I'd be a lot more confident in my speed estimate if they announced last minute that their engineers had a Eureka moment and the MSPro will instead be 126v!  

 

And given that @U-Stride hit 40mph on his MSX 84v not too long ago, who knows what is possible with a skilled rider on a 100 volt wheel with 500 more watts to play with?

Edited January 13, 2020 by BecauseFun

[Mitch]

I was excited by the topic line, but I don't think this is compelling enough to upgrade from my MSX 100V 1845WH version. I think I will get an mten3 to satisfy my compulsive need to purchase toys until something that is more of a leap forward comes along for my next high performance wheel. 

[Fuerte]

Mitch, I am thinking the exact same thing...

[Aneta]

Oops, I misunderstood this

"contacted Gotway directly about a month ago and Donald Gotway referred me directly to Fei Che Biao for further questions so this is definitely legit.

Predictions: Top speed of 47mph on flat ground"

- as coming from the horse's mouth. So, 47mph is just a conjecture and my post re: 2500/2000W is invalid.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Aneta

[BecauseFun]

1 hour ago, Mitch said:

I was excited by the topic line, but I don't think this is compelling enough to upgrade from my MSX 100V 1845WH version. 

If I had that wheel already I don't think I'd upgrade either but here's my story...this was exactly the wheel I'd finally wrapped my head around getting this weekend. (I've also been thinking maybe a used msx too but that's another story)

So anyway I wake up this morning, and *wow.*  It turns out a long-awaited MSX sequel is not only available to order, it's 500 watts more powerful and $500 cheaper! (at its pre-order price through eucservice) So to heck with the inevitable growing pains of a new wheel, this was just way too good a deal to pass up.

I'm even learning some Polish...

"Przygotowanie w toku"

means "Preparation in progress" 

Edited January 14, 2020 by BecauseFun

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

Looks like it's the tyre that @mrelwood retro fitted to his MSX.

Nope, I don’t have that one. That is actually the Nikola (and latest 18XL) tire. Compared to the MSX tire I agree completely with the term ”anti-slip” though. 

 

2 hours ago, scap said:

I would be surprised if there weren't protection diodes on this to prevent this from occurring.

GW wheels typically don’t have the diodes installed. A custom request by Ewheels is the only factory installed exception I know of.

2 hours ago, BecauseFun said:

Although it's entirely possible that higher-end speeds won't change that much, and the larger excitement factor is the increased torque.

Extremely unlikely. The only way for the MSPro to have more torque than the MSX is if they revamped the firmware behaviour to a non-Gotwaylike one, like KS now has on the 18XL. GW fans would get furious. Wattage doesn’t affect torque.

2 hours ago, BecauseFun said:

with 500 more watts to play with?

Oh my god, you people! I guess people skip reading my boring downer posts.

 

Oh look, a 3000W home stereo set! Three-thou-sand!! It’s eons more than even on the MSPro! Just emagine the thorq, you don’t even have to lean forward like at all anymore... just... WOW!!!

Edited January 14, 2020 by mrelwood

[BecauseFun]

59 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

Nope, I don’t have that one. That is actually the Nikola (and latest 18XL) tire. Compared to the MSX tire I agree completely with the term ”anti-slip” though. 

 

GW wheels typically don’t have the diodes installed. A custom request by Ewheels is the only factory installed exception I know of.

Extremely unlikely. The only way for the MSPro to have more torque than the MSX is if they revamped the firmware behaviour to a non-Gotwaylike one, like KS now has on the 18XL. Wattage doesn’t affect torque.

Oh my god, you people! I guess people skip reading my boring downer posts.

 

Oh look, a 3000W home stereo set! Three-thou-sand!! It’s eons more than even on the MSPro! Just emagine the thorq, you don’t even have to lean forward like at all anymore... just... WOW!!!

Speaking for myself, I realize that that while watts may or may not by themselves mean everything, a bigger motor comes along from gotway -- same case but clearly wider, so definitely bigger motor -- it's hard for me to think that performance is going to be decreased, or for that matter, stay the same.

Would it make you feel better if I substituted the words "bigger motor" for "more watts?" You seem to feel that just because I seized on the bigger motor as one of the things that impressed me the most about the MSXpro, that somehow I've now been manipulatively duped into purchasing a wheel because some slick marketing guys twisting their evil mustaches and laughing at me because I must be some gullible jerk who bought their twisted wattage numbers hook hook-line-and-sinker?

Look man, believe what you want but if you've taken the time to read MY posts, the wattage in the bigger motor is definitely not the only reason I'm investing in the next MSX.  It's a good reason, but it's definitely not the only one.

If you got an axe to grind for whatever reason, OK, whatever. To be honest with you I just find it flat-out disappointing to find somebody I've really looked up to and respected -- your expertise in tires is unparalleled and reading your threads is not a small reason why I chose an MSX over so many other good choices -- get wrapped up in a Watts lecture.

While I have your attention,  I might as well take the time to thank you in advance for how nice I believe the MSX will ride with a ChaoYang H-666. I don't plan to use that initially because I live in the Northeast and I plan to put on Shinko 244.  I actually believe I can get it on the MSPro without any modifications, but that's another story and maybe snow and mud season will have passed by the time my upgrade arrives so I go directly to the CYH666.  Frankly I think I will try to 244 regardless cuz it just looks like to cool a tire.

If you think you will be in Connecticut when this happens, definitely stop by so you can check out the 244 on the MSPro.  You can even try and teach me more about watts in person if you're somehow convinced I need another lesson. 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by BecauseFun

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, BecauseFun said:

Speaking for myself, I realize that that while watts may or may not by themselves mean everything, a bigger motor comes along from gotway -- same case but clearly wider, so definitely bigger motor -- it's hard for me to think that performance is going to be decreased, or for that matter, stay the same.

That right there is a well reasoned assumption, and I agree, the wheel most likely will have more power than the MSX. What gets under my skin is that the ”more power” is marketed as a value that’s supposed to present how much sustained power the motor can receive. Which alone is not a very meaningful figure even for itself, let alone for how much power the controller can deliver. The same wattage/numbers game is seen in industries all over, and is nothing more than the ”72% longer” eyelashes from a makeup. I hate that people are played down like that, when straight facts would serve everybody a lot better.

And don’t get me wrong, I consider your reasoning for the purchase exeptionally sound. It was a deal you definitely shouldn’t have passed, and I’m glad you didn’t. Just don’t expect for more torque than on the MSX under 30mph, since you would most likely be disappointed.

 

1 hour ago, BecauseFun said:

To be honest with you I just find it flat-out disappointing to find somebody I've really looked up to and respected -- your expertise in tires is unparalleled and reading your threads is not a small reason why I chose an MSX over so many other good choices -- get wrapped up in a Watts lecture.

Thank you for the praising words! It does sometimes surprise which specific areas rise to be a person’s strengths, and for me the tire thing is one of them. But despite my borderline OCD level info about tires, I’m just the next dude, and a person with many weaknesses. I also get annoyed from time to time. I’m sorry it fell down on your comments (amongst others).

 

1 hour ago, BecauseFun said:

ChaoYang H-666. I don't plan to use that initially because I live in the Northeast and I plan to put on Shinko 244.

That one should be a beast of a tire, just like my C-186. Yesterday we rode a hard 50km trip on extremely soggy dirt and mud, and I’d have turned home at the startline with the original tire. And we rode fast! I’m still perplexed what a proper tire turns these vehicles into.

Btw, I decided to follow EUC Extreme’s footsteps, and started slicing the H-666 up for a bit rougher tread pattern to better grip on mud. Turning and carving on a knobby does limit the joy factor a bit for me, and I still miss the stunning turning behaviour of the H-666. Hopefully my slicing wont change that too much.

1 hour ago, BecauseFun said:

If you think you will be in Connecticut when this happens, definitely stop by so you can check out the 244 on the MSPro.

Thanks, I’d love to, but I’m afraid my travelling capabilities are a bit too limited.

1 hour ago, BecauseFun said:

You can even try and teach me more about watts in person if you're somehow convinced I need another lesson. 

I actually think I can shut up about it for now...

...unless someone says the magic words again to waken the beast! 

[AtlasP]

On 1/13/2020 at 4:09 PM, BecauseFun said:

I wonder if it's more to do with pride or patent law (written or unwritten) that Gotway hasn't tried to copy King Song's much better diagonal handles. 

LOL, these are Chinese businesses, they'll unapologetically copy anything and everything they want to without hesitation. Whatever their reasoning for sticking with the sh1tty trolley handle (likely them not wanting to change the case and have to create new, expensive molds), neither pride nor patents have anything to do with it.

Edited January 15, 2020 by AtlasP

[Meserias]

10 hours ago, Planemo said:

The speakers appear to have the same waterproof type cones a la KS16X, Z10 and others. As long as they don't get perforated (and they do look a bit vulnerable) there shouldn't be any problems.

Indeed, speakers look not protected from dirt, water, accidental falls or even objects hitting that area...
I'm not happy with this, also I do not understand why are only one side.

[Planemo]

58 minutes ago, Meserias said:

 also I do not understand why are only one side.

Probably to retain as much working space as possible in the other side to cram in more batteries.

[mrelwood]

53 minutes ago, Meserias said:

Indeed, speakers look not protected from dirt, water, accidental falls or even objects hitting that area...
I'm not happy with this, also I do not understand why are only one side.

Perhaps they wish to remain the left bottom side empty for future models with more battery blocks.

 

I’m disappointed in the update, and have no interest in upgrading from my 84V MSX because of:

- Same ancient and small pedals. The additional torque arm from my long DIY pedal extension is very significant.

- Wider body but the same body shape, yet the sidepads seem to be on the thinner side. Ouch.

- The worst trolley handle in the business keeps it’s title.

- Unshielded speakers behind the right heel... This area is often filled with dust and mud on mine.

- Very scarce of real updates besides seemingly trying to make the fastest EUC.

- Cheap solution and tricky to use the lift kill switch.

- No news about firmware upgradability or updated riding modes.

 

If I’ll purchase a new wheel this year, it’s not going to be the MSPro.