Popular Post RetroThruster Posted April 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Rywokast said: hmmm, perhaps the 16x is lacking.. like i said never ridden one im just comparing to the nikola i had.. you still have to be careful about how you think about it, because yes the MSP technically would be more powerful than any other wheel on paper.. but being able to utilize that power comes down to the individual, it will not be as easy to access and it probably wont feel as easy as a 16" wheel.. if you know what i mean, everyones experience level is different, everyones size and strength and ride style is different so while one EUC may feel so casual and peppy and easy to control for one person, another person may hop on it and say jesus this thing is huge and heavy and so hard to control.. on paper the MSP wins, beats the MCM5 and anything else, but it completely depends on what YOU put into it.. by a longshot i can guarantee you that not having experience and being out of the loop you put one person on any 16" wheel and then put them on the MSP they will say every time that the 16" wheel went up the hill much easier Understood. My little Mten3 climbs my long steep driveway with less effort than my 16x does, the small wheel diameter is key obviously. All I know is, I'm having fun trying new wheels with different spec. I have the MSP on pre-order, can't have too many wheels, right:) Thanks again! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rywokast Posted April 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, RetroThruster said: Understood. My little Mten3 climbs my long steep driveway with less effort than my 16x does, the small wheel diameter is key obviously. All I know is, I'm having fun trying new wheels with different spec. I have the MSP on pre-order, can't have too many wheels, right:) Thanks again! haha yup, its all about striking that balance, smaller diameter = easier for you to draw on.. while at the same time larger wheel = more available power, that is more difficult to draw upon, different riders will give different feedback because it is subjective, no doubt the MSP is a step forwards, but i think until we see larger hub motors that have no gap between the motor and rim no matter how strong you make them they will always require more effort than something smaller.. at least with current tech.. thats not saying they cant be much more powerful and have more torque not at all, simply saying you have to work harder for it, and whether that difference in effort from you is minor to basically non-existent, or major depends on you. for example two 16" wheels one exponentially more powerful than the next, my ninebot one and nikola are a good comparison of this stark contrast, everybody who ive trained would say the ninebot flies up hills effortlessly and easily, but if they try the nikola they make it a short distance and then bail and say wtf this thing weighs a ton theres no way it can make it up that hill.. whereas for me i get on the ninebot you know and curse out loud man this pos is so slow and lame hurry up go go and its beeping at me all the way up,, i get on the nikola and i fly up that same hill 4x as fast with very little effort on my part, the difference between us is experience. anyways youre obviously not a new rider and have some experience so i think the MSP was a good and logical choice and after a little bit of getting used to, you will love it initially you may find it difficult to control but after a few days of riding you will think to yourself how did i ever find this even slightly difficult.. that was exactly what happened to me, i came from a ton of experience on a variety of 16" wheels and the first 18" wheel i got i tried to go up a mountain that i normally fly up no sweat and i got about 20 feet before slowing down and having to step off, i thought to myself man this is so lame, this stupid thing has no torque as i continue to try and fail, sweating from the workout lol.. now i fly up those same hills with no effort thinking to myself how in the hell did i ever find this difficult i dont understand i kind of lost count now but i think i have had 19 wheels and i have over 40,000 km driven over the last three years and this is just my overall experience.. coming from somebody who has a small frame and weighs 120 lbs, so the transition may be much easier for someone larger, i can only draw from my own experiences.. the MSP may be some huge breakthrough that finally breaks that barrier between 16" and 18" wheels and slowly larger wheels will start to become the norm, who knows 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rywokast said: i kind of lost count now but i think i have had 19 wheels I still have one of them. My daughter uses the MSuper V3+ that you sold me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Just now, RockyTop said: I still have one of them. My daughter uses the MSuper V3+ that you sold me. nice glad to hear shes still going strong xD no problems with the board then i assume? i think i got it after that whole fiasco settled down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 No problems at all. I have two of them. The one I got from you was three months newer than the one that I already had. I have put over 2,500 miles of heavy abuse on the one I had. @RetroThruster even put a half a mile on it and it is still going strong. Although Retro said it looks out dated He liked the way it rides The one I got from you still looks new. (800 miles) My daughter uses it. She is a lite weight that babies everything. She said that she scratched it but you have to have good eyes and a magnifying glass to see it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted April 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 6, 2020 Quote I'm looking for more outright hill climbing power with less effort 6 hours ago, Chriull said: Watch @Marty BackeBacke's overheat hill youtube tests of msp and mcm5. Afair the two wheels which made it best... Quote claims that the MSP has quite a bit more climbing power than the 16x. The terminology is the key here. Having more power or requiring less effort are two completely separate aspects. Being best is a third. And even ”less effort” can mean different things to different riders, as evidenced by @Rywokast. What we do know for certain is that the MSP has an astonishing amount of power, and also that the degree of lean required is only up to the outer tire diameter. On my first ride on the 16X I was able to compare it to my 84V MSX in a grassy off road hill. I was disappointed, since I was able to get up the hill on my MSX with clearly less effort, with better stability, and even with a relatively smaller lean. By ”relatively” here I mean that my huge custom pedal extensions and the generously raised sidepad fronts kept me in much better control, and further away from the maximum possible lean. A standard MSX would’ve definitely been a slouch, and I would’ve felt that I’m nearing the limit’s of how much I can lean without falling off the front. I swapped back to a more regular summer tire for my MSX. Suddenly the wheel accelerates with less lean, and is noticeably more agile and less stable. I hadn’t realized that the winter tire is almost an inch larger. If you want more actual peak power, get the MSP. But unless you have felt the 16X pedals go soft from a lack of power, the MSP will not climb any faster. It will require a stronger lean though. If you want to lean less, you need a smaller outer tire diameter, no way around that. If you want the climb to subjectively feel more effortless, you can try a softer riding mode, custom sidepads, and shoes that have less outer sole rise at the toes or a more rigid sole. Or anything else that could translate to better stability or confidence. 12 minutes ago, Rywokast said: until we see larger hub motors that have no gap between the motor and rim no matter how strong you make them they will always require more effort than something smaller Ah, the bicycle gear analogy. Disregarding the word ”effort” for now, I’m confident that the relative hub size wouldn’t translate to a different amount of lean required from the rider. 16” and 14” wheels both have the hub reaching the rim, yet the difference in the amount of required lean is perfectly in line with that of the current 18” and 16” wheels. If a more fine grained slow speed power delivery translates to a subjectively more effortless feeling, then sure, larger hub could affect that. But as you well explained yourself, the amount of effort is a subjective aspect, related to rider experience for one. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted April 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 6, 2020 12 hours ago, RetroThruster said: Just a quick clarification request here, I have the 16x and am looking at the MSP, the reason being is that I'm looking for more outright hill climbing power with less effort, if I'm reading all the reviews correctly, I'm really not going to see a night and day difference between the two? That rascal MCM5 keeps creeping into my head. Thanks in advance!! Scratch that, I'm thinking about some off road possibilities that have opened up recently for me so I believe the MSP will be better, maybe a MCM later... As others have said, the MSP will most likely be worse for you than the 16X. The MSP is awesome, for a 18+ inch wheel. But smaller wheels will always be best. But in many ways the MSP is still a superior trail wheel than the 16X due to it's bigger tire and better ground clearance of the pedals. And it has great climbing capability which will always get you up the hill. Prior to the MSP, I would have opted for my 16X on difficult trails. But now I can feel confident about taking the MSP anywhere. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Just in case anyone doesn't believe that the MSP has at least 15% more acceleration than the MSX... please see below: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FreeRide Posted April 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 17, 2020 I didn't see this posted here yet, but I might have missed it. EUCO - Gotway MSuper Pro Breakdown 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Looks like Chooch is still making MSP videos. Nothing new here really a bit boring City Cruise followed by a bit of trail before the camera dies. A nice little teezer at the end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroThruster Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) I just received my MSP and one of my pedals is a little over an inch higher than the other, the lower one is flatter than the one in the above pic and my higher one seems about the same as the photo above, I can try to beat the high one down some but when I do, I have to give it a good whack to get it back up again. If it's a matter of break in, if they both settle, I'll still be an inch higher on my right pedal:( Edited April 30, 2020 by RetroThruster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, RetroThruster said: I just received my MSP and one of my pedals is a little over an inch higher than the other, the lower one is flatter than the one in the above pic and my higher one seems about the same as the photo above, I can try to beat the high one down some but when I do, I have to give it a good whack to get it back up again. If it's a matter of break in, if they both settle, I'll still be an inch higher on my right pedal:( Can you put both pedals in the up position, turn the wheel upside down, and confirm both are milled out along the contact edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) That part of the pedal casting is not carefully machined, so it's subject to the wider tolerances of the casting process. I also recommend riding it for at least 30mins before removing any material. New pedal wear-in is significant. After you've stomped them down a few times, the contact surface will be evident- you can take the pedal off the wheel and remove material from that contact point (using sandpaper, a file, a demel, or whatever's handy). Removing material is a one-way street. Take just a little off, reinstall pedal (no screws needed), stand on it and check, etc. If you remove too much there is no easy way to 'shim it up' again. I recommend marking the surfaces with ink or paint before filing material away, as a clear visual indication of where you have and have not worked yet. Edited April 30, 2020 by RagingGrandpa 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said: That part of the pedal casting is not carefully machined It is on the ewheels supplied versions. Its milled out. For everyone else, you are at the mercy of gotways Shitty Casting Lottery. Some pedals are fine, some are up, some are down. Some inbetween. Some settle, some dont. For everything else, theres Mr File. As I did with my Nikola pedals. As an aside, my Z10 pedals have been perfect since day 1. No sticking, perfectly matched both sides, zero droop or 'bedding in' and no slop anywhere. So it can be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroThruster Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Looks like I'm just going to have to file that right side pedal down, not anything outside my ability just a little aggravating that I'm going to have to do it straight away, my biggest concern is the left pedal, if it settles, it'll be almost flat, it's already flatter looking than the one in the video pic above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Before filling I’d investigate closely what exactly it is that causes the issue. The MSP pedals seem to often be very stiff to open, but if stomped on hard they will go down properly. In that case filling would only affect how low it will eventually go. I think I’d remove the aluminum spacers first and check I’d the pedal will then go down all the way. If it does, file the spacer, not the pedal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroThruster Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Planemo said: It is on the ewheels supplied versions. Its milled out. For everyone else, you are at the mercy of gotways Shitty Casting Lottery. Some pedals are fine, some are up, some are down. Some inbetween. Some settle, some dont. For everything else, theres Mr File. As I did with my Nikola pedals. As an aside, my Z10 pedals have been perfect since day 1. No sticking, perfectly matched both sides, zero droop or 'bedding in' and no slop anywhere. So it can be done. Yeah, they are milled like you say, there is a ridge that runs along the top that will prevent the use of a flat file unless I remove that material as well, the pedals pictured above do not have this ridge making the use of a flat file easier. I tried taking the spacers out as well and it makes no difference on pedal height. Edited April 30, 2020 by RetroThruster 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post xorbe Posted May 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 1, 2020 Switch the pedals side to side. That'll tell you if the problem is in the pedal or wheel support. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 finally put some miles around the streets with this beast, this wheel is freacking awesome! what i do like more is that it's acts like a monster at high speeds, the wider motor plus the 1kg more mass makes an huge difference, the ability to go 50-60km/h and cruise at these speeds is amazing. i've lowered the pedal angle at around 6 degrees, almost like the msx angle, i like it more https://euc.world/tour/586033061509278 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meserias Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 EMA: you will probably need to apply some % speed correction .... 70kmh it's inflated ... 7% less it's about right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, Meserias said: EMA: you will probably need to apply some % speed correction .... 70kmh it's inflated ... 7% less it's about right I wouldn't touch any corrections. What you can see on speed chart is a GPS noise typical to densely populated cities, where radio signal is reflected by building walls etc. causing some glitches and inaccuracies. As I see there is only marginal difference in EUC-to-GPS distance (less than 300 meters on a 11 km tour) and EUC-to-GPS riding speed (less than 1 km/h). Gotway EUCs are reliable in terms of speed and distance precision. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Meserias said: EMA: you will probably need to apply some % speed correction .... 70kmh it's inflated ... 7% less it's about right it almost cut out, pedal dip and as you can see gps speed say 65, i think it's correct. i'm doing a mod on the buzzer becouse at high speed it's completely useless Edited May 1, 2020 by EMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Seba said: I wouldn't touch any corrections. What you can see on speed chart is a GPS noise typical to densely populated cities, where radio signal is reflected by building walls etc. causing some glitches and inaccuracies. As I see there is only marginal difference in EUC-to-GPS distance (less than 300 meters on a 11 km tour) and EUC-to-GPS riding speed (less than 1 km/h). Gotway EUCs are reliable in terms of speed and distance precision. agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroThruster Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, EMA said: finally put some miles around the streets with this beast, this wheel is freacking awesome! what i do like more is that it's acts like a monster at high speeds, the wider motor plus the 1kg more mass makes an huge difference, the ability to go 50-60km/h and cruise at these speeds is amazing. i've lowered the pedal angle at around 6 degrees, almost like the msx angle, i like it more https://euc.world/tour/586033061509278 I haven't had time to lower my pedal yet, may I ask how you achieved this, I presume you did away with the ridge (the black painted portion running the length of the mounting surface) in my pic to get to the center portion of the pedal or did you just use a small grinding wheel and remove material from the center of the pedal contact point? A pic would be awesome but a hassle I know:( Edited May 1, 2020 by RetroThruster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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