Help pick my next EUC

[scap]

I have had a V10F since they first came out and I mostly like it. I live in a hilly area of Austin and I am a heavier guy 230 ride weight. I hear the "overload, please get off" once or twice a ride which is annoying but at least the newest firmware is better than it used to be. I also hit the max speed on this regularly and ride around 20 MPH all the time because of this. Recently it seems either I can go for longer or the batteries are just not lasting that long. 

Looking for: 

* More Range

* Can climb hills easily with someone my weight

* Can go off  road I like trial  riding. 

* Goes a little faster (don't know that I really want to go a lot faster but it would be nice to not feel like I need to be close to the beep all the time). 

 

There are really four wheels that interest me in order are: 

1. The Kingsong 16x - This would be the wheel but I hear conflicting things about the firmware. Safety is important to me and I have read about some cut outs. I think they have all been with the older firmware but  would like to hear confirmation because I still read posts stating there are issues with this wheel. Watching Chooch it looks like this wheel would be plenty fast and is a whole lot of fun. If someone told me that they ironed out the issues and I have nothing to worry about this is likely what I would get. 

2. A Monster V3 - This is a very different wheel and I think it could be fun to just ride a giant wheel. Things that worry me here are tork from the larger wheel having issues on hills especially when you can't get a running start and the axel design. I have read that if you have one  of these wheels that you need to tighten down the axle from time to time. 

3. A Nikola V100 - This is more similar to the kongsong but I don't like the wide handle or the non-locking handle. It likely has the same axle as the monster (unknown)? In reviews it wasn't as good as the kingsong in hill climbs or acceleration.  Speed isn't my ultimate goal. 

4. A MTen3 - This is a wheel that doesn't really meet any of the criteria above but it would be great for non-cruising and practicing tricks etc at a park or taking to work to play with on a break. I will likely own this wheel at some point so if I can't decide on one of the others I might just get it now. 

[UniVehje]

If you like the ride and comfort or the V10F then you should consider the 18XL. I went from V10F to 18XL and it feels very similar plus it gives you everything you listed. Just make sure to get the larger pedals. It has just been upgraded and has all the kinks of a new wheel ironed out already. 
 

There are plenty of new wheels coming in 2020 also, but you might not want to buy from first batch. 

[Ben Kim]

with your weight, go 100V Gotway. Don’t waste your time with anything else. 

I used loctite red on both axle nuts on my monster v3 and 800+ miles later, no play or axle issues, it’s been riding perfectly.

I don’t really deal with too many hills in NYC so I can’t really comment on your unique challenges, but perhaps you could invest in some powerpads or something to help you get the leverage to go up steep hills from a stop? 

Nikola is easy mode acceleration and a fun wheel! I can’t imagine you having ANY issues going up even the steepest slopes with that wheel. My only beef with it is the unbalanced nature and gyro effect making it a unique challenge to accelerate into a turn (it’s not impossible but requires a different technique than you may be used to). I heard the new 1800Wh Nikola 100V is more balanced so one of my complaints may not be valid with this particular wheel. I own a 2nd batch 1845Wh Nikola 100V  

PS: mten3 is my favorite wheel. I own 100V monster/nikola and mten. Your taste in wheels is quite good

Edited January 7, 2020 by Ben Kim

[Meserias]

why not a MSX 84V 1859Wh ?! .... that's because you are riding very fast in general
or MSX it's not an option for you because of trolley ?

how many miles/km you do in general per day ?
this wheel will be used for day to day commuting ?

KS18XL latest version 2200W with big pedals would be another good choice

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Meserias

[mike_bike_kite]

I'd go for a KS18XL with the big pedal option (useful on the hills) and get it in white to reflect the Texas heat.

[LZMutant]

Hi - 

There's a guy in Austin named Michael Paolini, who knows a lot about wheels.  He was instrumental in bringing me along, and he might be an interesting guy for you to contact.  He's on Facebook and has a YouTube channel...

Okay - to your question, you have obviously done your homework.  I had a V10F and experienced a lot of the issues you describe, though I'm quite a bit lighter (165 with gear).  I was always riding up to tilt-back, and it drove me quite mad.

When I moved on to a new wheel my choices were two of yours:  the 16X and the Nikola Plus (more on that in a moment).

I consulted three people whom I consider experts and who own or have experience on these wheels and it came down a close 2 to 1 in favor of the Nikola. 

The 16X has more low-end torque and seems a more robust hill-climber (due to said torque).  However, it is speed throttled much like the V10F was (albeit at a higher speed).  Also, the firmware/hardware has been dodgy, and depending on who you talk to it's either fixed or not.

The Nikola seems like a better commuter wheel...no throttling though most of the battery range (unless you set it) and lots of power.  You can keep your high speeds for quite awhile, which is useful on the street and if you have a longer ride.  When I purchased in October, there were 2 Nikola Plus variants - a 100V/1845wh, and an 84V/2100wh.  Same price.  I opted for the 84v because I preferred more range to speed.  Personal preference here - want a little more speed? Get the 100V.  I hit 35 on the 84v and was terrified.

I know you're also considering a Monster...well consider that it doesn't come with a trolley handle but can accommodate a seat.  For me, no trolley handle was no bueno.  I often have to push my wheel in pedestrian areas and use the handle daily.  Also the Monster is one heavy hombre (as is the Nikola), and if you have to carry it up stairs think about running your local steps with a 60 to 70 pound awkwardly shaped dumbbell  and you'll have an idea of what its like.  

Seriously the Nikola is significantly heavier than the V10F, but I haven't had issues with the thick handle.  Got used to it right away.  The ride is smooth as silk, and hills are no problem at all (for me - residential hills).

The 16X (I've heard) rides more like the V10F because the pedals are slightly higher and the wheel is a little top-heavy.  The Nikola rides...well, like a Gotway.  (I didn't know what that meant until I rode one).  The Mten 3 is kind of it's own thing...  I'm thinking about it as a 2nd wheel because it's tons of fun, but it would never be a daily driver.

Back to the Nik and the 16X - both have 3" tires which are different feeling than the V10F.  You'll need some adaptation time whatever you choose.

Dude - whatever you pick you'll probably be thrilled with it.

Enjoy your purchase!

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by LZMutant
Had to add something.

[MexicanBatman]

I had the V10F

 

then bought an MSX

 

then sold the V10F as I never rode it again after getting the MSX

 

well I did twice when the MSX was charging 

 

the answer is always MSX

Edited January 7, 2020 by Trevor Phillips

[meepmeepmayer]

You mention hills... maybe the big-tire Monster is the wrong wheel then? I'd get a Nikola (no firmware uncertainty like the 16X has now).

And the mten3 anyway, in addition

8 hours ago, LZMutant said:

There's a guy in Austin named Michael Paolini, who knows a lot about wheels.  He was instrumental in bringing me along, and he might be an interesting guy for you to contact.  He's on Facebook and has a YouTube channel...

Also here: @Mike Paolini

[scap]

I really like the monster but it is kind of impractical. Maybe they will update it with a better axle, trolly handle, and even more batteries for even more range. Maybe then I will get it.

I am really leaning toward the Nikola V100. Which battery type should I go for the new 21700 which are newer and cheaper or the 18650s? Really wish the trolly handle locked like the V10F but its probably not that big a deal. One of the things I really like on my V10F is the cover. Does anyone make a nice cover for gotway wheels? My V10F looks great today because of the cover and it is the wheel I learned on so it has been dropped a number of times.

Wonder if I can convince my wife since I am getting a cheaper wheel I should also get an mten...

[scap]

On 1/7/2020 at 2:02 AM, Meserias said:

why not a MSX 84V 1859Wh ?! .... that's because you are riding very fast in general
or MSX it's not an option for you because of trolley ?

how many miles/km you do in general per day ?
this wheel will be used for day to day commuting ?

KS18XL latest version 2200W with big pedals would be another good choice

 

I ride 20-30 miles on weekends but would like to do longer rides

I live way out in the suburbs so until they finish the commuter trail they are building I just drive to work (looks like 2 years out).

[Fuerte]

I would say 100 volt MSX, it is amazing and comfortable.

[meepmeepmayer]

27 minutes ago, scap said:

I am really leaning toward the Nikola V100. Which battery type should I go for the new 21700 which are newer and cheaper or the 18650s?

Apparently there is basically no difference for the rider between the 18650 and 21700 cells they use. It's just easier (= cheaper) for Gotway to build packs with the bigger 21700 cells.

The 1800Wh Nikola has two battery packs, one on each side, with nothing in the top space. So its center of gravity is lower. The 1845Wh has 3 packs (one on each side and one in the top space) so it has a higher center of gravity. I don't know if that actually makes any difference.

On the other hand, 1845Wh > 1800Wh (1776Wh without rounding) so the 18650 Nikola gives you maybe 3km extra range (hey it's something!). And it's 6p instead of 4p (battery configuration), but I also don't know if that makes any difference here.

You can't go wrong with either one, I think. Maybe it will be decided by price and seller options.

(Here's a list of wheels by range (battery size) that I just made, maybe it helps somehow: click)

Edited January 8, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[LZMutant]

11 hours ago, scap said:

I really like the monster but it is kind of impractical. Maybe they will update it with a better axle, trolly handle, and even more batteries for even more range. Maybe then I will get it.

I am really leaning toward the Nikola V100. Which battery type should I go for the new 21700 which are newer and cheaper or the 18650s? Really wish the trolly handle locked like the V10F but its probably not that big a deal. One of the things I really like on my V10F is the cover. Does anyone make a nice cover for gotway wheels? My V10F looks great today because of the cover and it is the wheel I learned on so it has been dropped a number of times.

Wonder if I can convince my wife since I am getting a cheaper wheel I should also get an mten...

My 84V is great on hills.  Haven't done trails - but if the 84 is great on hills I have to think the 100 would be even better.

I second your thoughts on the cover.  Loved my V10F cover - in fact I had two.  If you uncover (see what I did there) a solution for the Nikola please let me know - I haven't found one.

[Tazarinho]

If you're thinking about the 16X I think that that would be a good choice for you. I'm 95 kg (210 pounds) and went from a V8 to a KS 16X. I have one of the newer versions (11/2019) and it came with firmware 1.07 and a stock CYT tire. Therefore I haven't experienced any of the gyro effect that the first batch tires had.

As for the firmware. Everything works for me. I think a cutout is extremely unlikely even for a heavier guy if you stay under 40km/h (25 mph). If you want to ride 30 mph, then get the Nikola or MSX 100V.

KS16X is great for trails. At my weight and with temperatures slightly above freezing I typically get about 60 to 70 km (40-ish miles) range. It seems to me there is some throttling at 50% and more at 25%. With my riding style and speed (25 to 35 kmh) I only really am slightly affected by the 25% throttling, after which I have to stay around the lower end of that range.

 

[mrelwood]

The 18XL would surely be the most familiar, but the Nikola and perhaps even the MSX are indeed great options.

The 16X might feel a bit smaller than the V10F, so depending on your preference on wheel stability, it might not suit you the best. Also if you are a tall guy, I’d skip the 16X.

The Nikola feels very close to the MSX, only with a more comfortable (although wider and taller) custom shell. Very stable ride. It would become clear why a lot of people favour Gotways, the secure feeling of limitless power allows for a level of trust that’s not available (to me) from any other manufacturer.

I’d skip on the Monster though. You’d never get the feeling of effortless acceleration with that one. And to me the braking distance from 40km/h on the MSX is already close to a dangerous one, despite having rear risers on my sidepads to help with panic braking.

While you are not after high speeds, it’s the headroom in speed that keeps us safe. Never purchase a 40km/h wheel to ride at 40km/h! Although, the 84V MSX (and Nikola?) is already plenty fast, no need to go for 100V if range is your thing.